Savage Love

[GTAVercetti 0]

Here is the response from Dan Savage in his weekly column at Onion.com. The topic this week is STDs, particularly HPV which can cause cervical cancer in women.:


Oh, and while we're on the subject of HPV... Researchers have been hard at work on two vaccines for HPV, vaccines that could save thousands of women's lives. In clinical trials, the vaccines have prevented 90 percent of new HPV infections. Good news, huh? Not for the religious right. Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council told New Scientist magazine that "giving the HPV vaccine to young women could be potentially harmful, because they may see it as a license to engage in premarital sex."

While the religious right's war on gay people gets all the headlines, their war on straight rights gains ground daily. They've destroyed sex education in this country, undermined abortion rights, and successfully prevented emergency contraception from being made available over the counter. Now they're going to block the HPV vaccine. Why? Because the American Taliban would rather see sexually active women dead than vaccinated.

Hello, straight people? If you don't want to live in a world where you need a license from the likes of Bridget Maher to have sex, premarital or otherwise, you had better start speaking up. Most of you seem content to merely rubberneck while gay people have the shit kicked out of us, and while that's maddening, I suppose it's understandable. It's not your fight. But what explains your passivity when your own rights are being attacked?


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Denying vaccines? That is completely fucking retarded.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Lindsey 0]

Thank you!!! AND cervical cancer is definitely not a disease limited to women who are sexually promiscuous. All it takes to contract the virus is having sex with one partner (whether you're married to him or not) who has HPV (he probably won't know he has it). The types of HPV that cause cervical cancer are not the same ones that cause warts.

I had a patient whose husband was stunned to learn that she had cervical cancer. Several years before, his previous wife had died of cervical cancer. He had no idea that he gave it to both of them....

Funny how men's promiscuity doesn't carry the same weight of blame that women's does....

Thanks for the post!

linz

[Rebecca 0]

Most people who have had sex, men and women, especially collegiates, have or have had HPV. If any one of those 'religious right' members has had sex with someone who's had sex with someone else, chances are excellent they've been exposed or infected.It only hurts women, and it doesn't care how much you make or what church you attend.

"License to engage in premarital sex"??? Teenagers aren't abstaining or engaging in sex because of any license - possession of a vagina or penis is license enough.

Restricting this vaccine just hurts everyone in the end.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[AndyMan 7]

I love Dan Savages column. I met him once when I was in college.

It was a lot funnier when he prefaced all his questions with "Hey! Faggot!".

So much of what the religious right fights against is such a no-brainer, I completely fail to understand how they manage to get support.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Rebecca 0]

You met him? Cool! I love his column too - haven't read it in a little while, but I used to religiously (ha!) every Wednesday when the new Onion comes out...

He's an alright cat. His Santorum campaign was hysterical. I referenced his new definition in TalkBack and told people to Google it. Some of them had NO idea!

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[storm1977 0]

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But what explains your passivity when your own rights are being attacked?

My rights aren't under attack....
Who says we need a license to have sex?
Was that in the article?

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[Rebecca 0]

Dude! Didn't you know?? If you're not married, you are REQUIRED by the Religious Right Brigade Against Premarital Sex And Other Non-Bible-Sanctioned Uses of Personal Freedoms to have a license to make love, masturbate, look at anyone sexually, or become aroused.

If you are married, you still need permission, which is rarely if ever granted, to masturbate. You may not look at your spouse sexually, or become aroused until you're in the BEDROOM with the lights off in the proper missionary position.

Jeez, get with the program.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[EricTheRed 0]

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Dude! Didn't you know?? If you're not married, you are REQUIRED by the Religious Right Brigade Against Premarital Sex And Other Non-Bible-Sanctioned Uses of Personal Freedoms to have a license to make love, masturbate, look at anyone sexually, or become aroused.

If you are married, you still need permission, which is rarely if ever granted, to masturbate. You may not look at your spouse sexually, or become aroused until you're in the BEDROOM with the lights off in the proper missionary position.

Jeez, get with the program.

And only when the intent of the act is procreation - not recreation.

illegible usually

[rehmwa 2]

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And only when the intent of the act is procreation - not recreation.

What is both - reprorecreation - croation for short?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 10]

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If you are married, you still need permission, which is rarely if ever granted, to masturbate. You may not look at your spouse sexually, or become aroused until you're in the BEDROOM with the lights off in the proper missionary position.

Jeez, get with the program

So not true. The Torah does not prohibit pre-marital sex. The religions strongly condem the irresponseibility of sex outside of the context of marriage, not the book.

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In Jewish law, sex is not considered shameful, sinful or obscene. Sex is not a necessary evil for the sole purpose of procreation. Although sexual desire comes from the yetzer ra (the evil impulse), it is no more evil than hunger or thirst, which also come from the yetzer ra. Like hunger, thirst or other basic instincts, sexual desire must be controlled and channeled, satisfied at the proper time, place and manner. But when sexual desire is satisfied between a husband and wife at the proper time, out of mutual love and desire, sex is a mitzvah.

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Sex is the woman's right, not the man's. A man has a duty to give his wife sex regularly and to ensure that sex is pleasurable for her. He is also obligated to watch for signs that his wife wants sex, and to offer it to her without her asking for it. The woman's right to sexual intercourse is referred to as onah, and it is one of a wife's three basic rights (the others are food and clothing), which a husband may not reduce. The Talmud specifies both the quantity and quality of sex that a man must give his wife. It specifies the frequency of sexual obligation based on the husband's occupation, although this obligation can be modified in the ketubah (marriage contract). A man may not take a vow to abstain from sex for an extended period of time, and may not take a journey for an extended period of time, because that would deprive his wife of sexual relations. In addition, a husband's consistent refusal to engage in sexual relations is grounds for compelling a man to divorce his wife, even if the couple has already fulfilled the halakhic obligation to procreate.

Although sex is the woman's right, she does not have absolute discretion to withhold it from her husband. A woman may not withhold sex from her husband as a form of punishment, and if she does, the husband may divorce her without paying the substantial divorce settlement provided for in the ketubah.

Although some sources take a more narrow view, the general view of halakhah is that any sexual act that does not involve sh'chatat zerah (destruction of seed, that is, ejaculation outside the vagina) is permissible. As one passage in the Talmud states, "a man may do whatever he pleases with his wife." (Nedarim 20b) In fact, there are passages in the Talmud that encourage foreplay to arouse the woman. (Nedarim 20a).

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Lindsey 0]

Sex is the woman's right, not the man's. A man has a duty to give his wife sex regularly and to ensure that sex is pleasurable for her. He is also obligated to watch for signs that his wife wants sex, and to offer it to her without her asking for it.

Yeah...

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[Rebecca 0]

I said Bible. I'm Catholic. Sex is sinful unless it's for one thing only. (I'm a baaad Catholic)

Onah - I like that. Gimme lovin'! My onah demands satisfaction!

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Ron 10]

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I said Bible. I'm Catholic. Sex is sinful unless it's for one thing only.

Do you consider the Old Testament as part of the Bilble?

The Torah, is what you would call the Old Testament. It is called the Written Torah or the Tanakh.

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The word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings.

And even in the NT I don't see (Although I will admit I don't know it that well) of any requirement to as you say: Get permission to masturbate, not being allowed to look at your wife sexually, or become aroused until you're in the BEDROOM with the lights off in the proper missionary position.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AndyMan 7]

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I said Bible. I'm Catholic. Sex is sinful unless it's for one thing only. (I'm a baaad Catholic) Devil

Sex as a tool for only reproduction comes mroe from Aristotle than it does the Bible.

Of course the Catholic church took much of what Aristotle said for their own benefit.

I'm a bigger fan of Locke, myself.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billvon 3,120]

>Do you consider the Old Testament as part of the Bilble?

I challenge you to find a bible that does not include the old testament.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

jeesh thought I was a Christian, I think I seal my fate in hell at least once a day now ....... crap gotta work on that

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Ron 10]

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>Do you consider the Old Testament as part of the Bilble?

I challenge you to find a bible that does not include the old testament.

I think you proved MY point. We had this before. I said that the OT was part of the Bible that Christians worship.

She said : "I said Bible. I'm Catholic. Sex is sinful unless it's for one thing only"...And in fact the Bible does not say that.

Infact it says the opposite. "The woman's right to sexual intercourse is referred to as onah, and it is one of a wife's three basic rights (the others are food and clothing), which a husband may not reduce."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[GTAVercetti 0]

You are exactly right. The bible is not absolutely clear on masterbation and all that. In fact, it does not mention it. On the other hand, Jesus said that if one "looks upon a woman in lust, he has committed adultery." THe sin is not in the act of masterbation itself, but the lust which forwards the act.

In any case, I stand by my belief that restricting vaccines is a retarded way to deal with premarital sex. And I also strongly believe in what Dan Savage says: while too many people focus on gay rights, we neglect to see the damage being done to straight people's, not rights (I think he misspoke there), but our personal lives by the religious right.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Casurf1978 0]

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Denying vaccines? That is completely fucking retarded.

What do you expect from the Family Research Council. Check out their website. Pretty scary if you ask me.

[billvon 3,120]

>She said : "I said Bible. I'm Catholic. Sex is sinful unless it's for one
>thing only"...And in fact the Bible does not say that.

Ah, got you. Yeah, about the only thing the bible says about the 'sin in sex' is that it is immoral to feel lust for someone who is not your wife.

On the other hand, Terry Gilliam has given us a later interpretation, which states in no uncertain terms that catholics believe sex has only one purpose. And Terry Gilliam, to me, actually makes more sense than most conservative organizations that start with the word "family."

[Rebecca 0]

OMG. I was being totally sarcastic and hyperbolous (is that a word?) hyperbolic, whatever. I did not intend for that to be taken seriously.

I have NO idea what it actually says about all that in the bible, OT, Torah, or any other religious document. Just what the Roman Catholic church would have us believe. No BC, just timing, lots of babies, and no endorsement for her pleasure or his pleasure...

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Ron 10]

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You are exactly right. The bible is not absolutely clear on masterbation and all that. In fact, it does not mention it. On the other hand, Jesus said that if one "looks upon a woman in lust, he has committed adultery." The sin is not in the act of masterbation itself, but the lust which forwards the act.

Correct the best I can find is:
Gen. 38:9-10: But Onan knew that the child would not be considered his. So whenever he had sexual relations with his brother's wife, he withdrew prematurely so as not to give his brother a descendant. What he did was evil in the Lord's sight, so the Lord killed him too.

And you are correct that the sin would be the lust, not the act.

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In any case, I stand by my belief that restricting vaccines is a retarded way to deal with premarital sex.

That I 100% agree on.

I tend to wish that most people keep their opinions out of my bedroom.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Ah, got you. Yeah, about the only thing the bible says about the 'sin in sex' is that it is immoral to feel lust for someone who is not your wife.

Do you know the verse so I can look it up?

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On the other hand, Terry Gilliam has given us a later interpretation, which states in no uncertain terms that catholics believe sex has only one purpose. And Terry Gilliam, to me, actually makes more sense than most conservative organizations that start with the word "family."

If its ok, I'll stick to the OT where it say sex is supposed to be fun

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[lisamariewillbe 1]

John 3:4, that sin is the transgression of God's law, therefore, to commit adultery is to transgress God's law, and therefore, sin. Not only has God forbidden adultery, but the son of God himself said, "Whoso looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" Matthew 5:28. If the adulterous thought is sin, surely the adulterous act is sin. The Holy Spirit through the inspired apostle has told us plainly that adultery is a sin. Peter described some sinners of his day as having "eyes full of adultery, that cannot cease from sin" II Peter 2:14. Paul warned the Corinthians to "flee fornication" I Corinthians 6:18.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[lisamariewillbe 1]

btw that might or might not be my opinion, its just the technical stuff

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this