PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?

[billvon 3,109]

>1 PD employee I talked to said the best idea would be to put a larger reserve in the same container.

That's what I'll likely do. Right now it's hard to find a container that will safely hold a 99 sq ft main and a 143 sq ft reserve (which is what I'd prefer.) It would be nice to have the option to fit a larger reserve in a container that a 99 sq ft main doesn't "swim" in.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

So basically jump the reserve you want to jump for your personal safety. Several "tests" have shown that container manufactures don't want to make rigs for big reserves and small mains.

This seems like the best application for larger sizes if they come out. Rather than having a rig with a reserve one size lower than than the main, you could have one that is one size bigger.

Is the cost of fabric a significant (more than 10%) element of the cost of a reserve canopy? If this stuff is especially pricey, PD may want to make sure it is a success before testing the waters with the 200s where people like me may think that a little more bulk (and picking Wings) is worth saving $300.

Does seem like it's only aimed at the overloaders, though. Even the 143 is pretty agressively loaded for most people.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

I look forward to switching my PD-126R for a 143.

Same here

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[matthewcline 0]

I got a raven 181 because my big butt could fire it at terminal in CO and not blow it up (I don't jump there on squares to often but figured it would be the safe thing to do). The problem was I happened to be getting in to "better" performing canopies (not really a "swooper" but I dabble).

Ankie at Sunrise guided me along and my container is built for the 181 reserve and 110 main (107 CB right now).

If I had an option I would be willing to even go higher in the reserve footage and PD has addressed this. Others I am sure will follow suit.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[yardhippie 0]

Currently my PD143 is loaded at 1.5 out the door.
Im getting ready to buy a new container so my main will fit properly. One of my conditions is I will not downsize the reserve. In fact, if they came out with larger sized low bulk reserves, id do that.

Ive landed a PD 143 3 times this season. Love that canopy, but Id go bigger if/when possible.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[cpoxon 0]

I voted > 1.4 WL on main: My next reserve = Same SQ FT - Smaller container but that's only because I already have a 155 sq ft reserve from when I was 42 lbs (20 kgs) heavier, and had a lot less jumps. My Crossfire2 109 is already a bit squishy in my Voodoo V3 so I can't really go any smaller on the main with that container.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[Programmer 0]

www.performancedesigns.com/docs/dualsq.pdf
Did I do that right to make it clicky? Anyway, I figured most people would be familiar with PD's dual square testing and their report refers to a couple of other tests which all concluded that similar sized canopies are easier to handle in a two-out scenario.
It was not my point to discuss the two-out case, but rather to point out that a one-out case is more common, so it seems to make sense to choose a reserve based on what you want it to do by itself.

[Remster 30]

Quote

I figured most people would be familiar with PD's dual square testing and their report refers to a couple of other tests which all concluded that similar sized canopies are easier to handle in a two-out scenario

The point that Dave made was that these test were done with very large canopies (more inline with Student gear then sport rigs, especially in the low bulk reserve size range). Not terribly inline with small mains.

Remster

[Programmer 0]

Agreed. And most of these smaller mains are in more modern containers with better pin protection, making a two-out even less likely than it would have been with '90s equipment. We're really saying the same thing here: Do everything you can to prevent having two canopies out and get a reserve that will save you when the main is gone. Sounds like a lot of replies here are in favor of using lower pack volume to get a bigger reserve into their container.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

As I already have the smallest container Wings makes, I would definitely upsize my reserve in the same container. I already jump PD reserves (106's).

[BenediktDE 2]

The Paratec Speed 2000 already packs smaller that most reserves do and I know of two persons who upsized their reserve by buying a larger reserve and keeping their container.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[Remster 30]

Quote

We're really saying the same thing here

No.

Quote

And most of these smaller mains are in more modern containers with better pin protection

Most 2 outs are due to Cypress fires.

You're confusing 2 out situations with premies.

Remster

[superstu 0]

same size container, bigger reserve.

during competition i load my 126 at 1.68. if i got a 143 it would be 1.48

after seeing Marianne Krammer(sp) go in i am happy to go to a bigger reserve. it's unfortunate that our sport had to learn the hard way about what can happen under a highly loaded, uncontrollable, reserve, by losing Marianne. but i learned a lot from her and what happend, and i'm making the change to go bigger when i can. and i would encourage everyone else who asks me to do the same.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[Kolla 0]

Quote

Quote

honestly I would buy a smaller container with like a PD106R puts me at about 1.5 WL

I'm UPSIZING my PD 113R to a 126 of the new material.

Blues,
Ian

Ditto there - although I fully trust my 113, I'm all for more reserve over my head.

Blue Skies Magazine

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I figured most people would be familiar with PD's dual square testing and their report refers to a couple of other tests which all concluded that similar sized canopies are easier to handle in a two-out scenario.

As I said in my previous post. The PD test didn't really test large differences in sizes, Derek V. did. Both tests concluded that it wasn't a huge safety issue. Sure it mentioned that they're, as you put it "easier to handle," but that does not overshadow larger safety concerns. The bigger safety problem is having a severely overloaded reserve. Why would I want a PDr-113 or PDr-126 to match my Velo 120? Then I would be loading my reserve at 2.3:1 or higher. The wingloading I have on my reserve is bad enough already.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[champu 1]

I already chose my current container to fit a larger reserve, opting for a 126, than most people have for the main I jump. I have one reserve ride on it and it felt like a barge, I don't think a 143 is really necessary. It's probably going to be a while before I buy another container, but if/when I do it'll be a smaller container and the same size reserve.

[jerry81 10]

My current container holds a PDR143 right now with a 120 main. I already had a 107 in it, which means I can also go to something crossbraced in the 100 sq. ft. range when I want to and even smaller if it's a sailcloth JVX or whatever else might come out in the future.
But if I was buying a second rig, it would probably be for swooping, in which case I'd be happy to put another smaller-packing 143 reserve into a smaller container.

[WeakMindedFool 0]

I have a PD143 (W/L 1.5) and a Velocity 103 (W/L 2.1). It's the biggest reserve I can get into my Vector and the smallest Main. If I can get a bigger reserve into it I will, as big as I can get. I look at my reserve as my "I'm injured, scared and not thinking at the top of my game canopy". When I downsize my main I'll probably be going with an all sail JVX so it won't be an issue as far as having to get a bigger rig. As for the cost...I'd pay twice as much to get a better ie bigger reserve into a smaller space.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[tdog 0]

Cool...

20 people voted that they will downsize their container and keep the same size reserve - yet most of these people wish to admit it by telling us why...

[billvon 3,109]

>yet most of these people wish to admit it by telling us why...

I think we can figure it out!

[AllisonH 0]

Quote

>yet most of these people wish to admit it by telling us why...

I think we can figure it out!

I will most likely downsize both my container and my reserve, though not within the next year or so. However, I will be downsizing from a 160 loaded at around 0.85 (which I bought when I had <40 jumps, have used once, and am very happy with) to a 143 which I will still load at just under 1:1 even if I add a little more lead. I would go that way with or without the new low bulk reserves, though since I'm not that large myself I would be willing to pay a little more to get the size reserve I want into a smaller container.

[Genn 0]

Quote

Do you want to take advantage of the tighter pack volume reserve by buying a larger reserve for your same size rig?

Absolutely! I thought I was going to have to sell my custom Mirage w/PDR113 to accommodate a larger reserve, which I've wanted for some time now. However, I wasn't ready to drop all that cash on a new rig.

This solves my dilemma. Thanks PD!

I'll be upsizing to a PDR126- with extra cash in my pocket and no hassle of selling/buying/ordering/waiting/waiting/waiting some more/....broke.

[piisfish 140]

I repeat my question.. Any idea of release schedule ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[lauras 0]

Quote

As I already have the smallest container Wings makes, I would definitely upsize my reserve in the same container. I already jump PD reserves (106's).

Make it a next-to-smallest size container Wings makes & a PD 106 loaded at 1.4. I'll happily buy the biggest PD reserve I can get in the freebag. When the new canopies are released, I'd like to try to get a 126 to look good in my W-2, but if that doesn't work, I'll get a 113.

[Tonto 1]

Quote

honestly I would buy a smaller container with like a PD106R puts me at about 1.5 WL

No surprises there..

t

It's the year of the Pig.