DrunkMonkey 0 #76 May 6, 2005 QuoteHuh?? You must have intended your response for someone else. You haven't heard me whine. Not directed to you personally. Just to the issue. My apologies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #77 May 6, 2005 Quote4) for kids raised by wolves These are the worst kind. They develop cities and build empires. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #78 May 6, 2005 QuoteYes, but they do conflict, and when the conflict appears the NT "wins" in Christianity Good, so where in the NT does it say gays should not be put to death? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #79 May 6, 2005 QuoteGood, so where in the NT does it say gays should not be put to death? Don't know of any....But thats why I ASKED the question. Do you know? Maybe you know where in the NT it says they should not be? See I said that the NT over rides the OT.... Anyone know about gays in the NT? I don't care either way since I don't care about either anymore."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #80 May 7, 2005 >Personally, I think the whole thing could be solved if the government >got out of the business of regulating marriage. I'd be all for that. Churches (or clerks) marry people, governments set up the civil union that accompanies a marriage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #81 May 7, 2005 Quote>Personally, I think the whole thing could be solved if the government >got out of the business of regulating marriage. I'd be all for that. Churches (or clerks) marry people, governments set up the civil union that accompanies a marriage. I haven't read the rest of the posts so maybe this was stated already, but the reason the government has any interest in marriage is because of the possibility of children. Their concern is for children, and since gay couples cannot "normally" reproduce, I'm not sure what the big push is for. I've had a good friend of mine who I've been roommates with for 3 years. Whose to say the government shouldn't get involved in this and give us certain tax breaks and other benefits. How is this different than two guy friends that are in love with each other. We'll never get recognition(nor do we want it), so why should a gay couple who can't have children be given these considerations. There's nothing stopping a gay couple from going to a church that approves and taking vows. This should be enough. I think state recognized gay marriages are nothing more than a push for the gay agenda and will create possibilities of discrimination suits against churches that will not marry gay couples. Sounds crazy maybe, but Canada can already prosecute anyone that speaks negatively in public about homosexuality. Anyway the point was that, states are interested in marriage because of children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justaflygirl 0 #82 May 8, 2005 I am one of the most open-minded loves everybody kind of people period. Heres my question and it is not directly related to gay marriage, but marriage in whole. What is the point of getting married? I ask this becuase it is 75 % sure that I am about to go thru what will probably end up being an ugly divorce. I now have to find a way to pay for an attorney, just so a judge can tell me its okay to not be with my husband any longer. Im sorry, but I dont need permission. I WILL never marry again, ever!!!!!! So why the big deal about being married? You can have just as much committment with someone, love them just as much and so on, without that "piece of paper" and then if it doesnt work out, pack up and leave, no circus bullshit to go thru.... Maybe I have a twisted view on things right now, cuz my heart is shattered, but I just dont see what it is all about... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #83 May 8, 2005 Here's a list of benefits that married people enjoy. Many things on this list are off-limits to those in same-sex relationships. Marriage Rights and BenefitsSky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #84 May 8, 2005 "tax benifits" Is that why they call it the marriage penalty? That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #85 May 8, 2005 QuoteOr "Americans should get tax benefits for marrying their SO?" I would have loved to get a tax benefit after my marriage . Hell it would have been great just to be able to still file single. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #86 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuote Well, help me understand. Are you not saying that gays who want to marry, which might represent 5% of the population, have only the option of trying to get another 46% of the population to agree to let them live their own lives? Correct. It's a bitch, Democracy... Er... no.... See, you guys don't live in a Democracy - you have a Republic. One of the defining features which sets a Republic appart from a Democracy is that your whole political infrastructure is set up to protect the rights of minority groups. If you want poofters to have to vote their rights in, come over here and live in a Democracy. As it is you live in a Republic and it's only a matter of time before the wheels of your constitution grind into action and protect the rights of the minority group. Then again... this Democracy has already allowed same sex unions so we probably won't see many bigots moving over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #87 May 9, 2005 >Correct. It's a bitch, Democracy... Nope. That's why we have a judiciary. They interpret the constitution, which liberals consider a very important document. They might decide to do something unpopular, like allow blacks to marry whites, even if blacks make up only a small fraction of the population - and even if most whites don't want to allow it. We have laws (and a judiciary) partly to protect against a tyranny of the majority. We don't have a true democracy here, any more than we have true capitalism, or a true representative government, or even true socialism. We have a hybrid of several systems, which is one reason the US system (usually) works pretty well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #88 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteOr "Americans should get tax benefits for marrying their SO?" I would have loved to get a tax benefit after my marriage . Hell it would have been great just to be able to still file single. The majority of married couples get a tax benefit, and it increased with the recent efforts to eliminate the 'marriage penalty.' The tax benefits in case one partner dies is significant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #89 May 10, 2005 QuoteI haven't read the rest of the posts so maybe this was stated already, but the reason the government has any interest in marriage is because of the possibility of children. Their concern is for children, and since gay couples cannot "normally" reproduce, I'm not sure what the big push is for. Wake up! Many Gay couples DO have children. Many people who are gay have had children in a previous hetero-relationship or have decided to adopt. It happens frequently. We can't shut our eyes to that fact and ignore the fact that their families are worthy of the same rights as hetero couples. On your line of thinking, then should only fertile heterosexual couples be afforded all of the rights that are now given to fertile and infertile heterosexual couples? If its all about the natural reproduction of children and benefits for parents, then I don't see why couples that are infertile or who don't want kids, or who've had sterilization surgeries should be able to keep their benefits... And your argument about your roommate is just a red herring. Be fair about this and don't just bring up trivial little issues that aren't related. Thats just completely disrespectful to a much larger issue. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #90 May 10, 2005 QuoteAnyway the point was that, states are interested in marriage because of children. I'm not quite sure why the federal government or state government should have any say so as to the relationship of marriage/children? Can you clarify your point? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #91 May 10, 2005 QuoteIf its all about the natural reproduction of children and benefits for parents, then I don't see why couples that are infertile or who don't want kids, or who've had sterilization surgeries should be able to keep their benefits... then you might like my posts (mid 70's I think) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #92 May 10, 2005 Quotethen you might like my posts (mid 70's I think) huh? "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #93 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuotethen you might like my posts (mid 70's I think) huh? I wasn't clear, post number 72 or so. If government wants to encourage specific life styles, let's break it down and be very specific. No hiding behind generalities, all cards on the table and see what the people think. then we can compare the list of benefits and see if we think the breakdown makes sense edit: sorry Karen also 74 ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #94 May 10, 2005 QuoteI'm not quite sure why the federal government or state government should have any say so as to the relationship of marriage/children? Can you clarify your point? I'll take a stab at it: Governments survive only so long as the populace is calm. Nothing's so calming as pairing off and making babies. Families by and large don't start trouble. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
britboynz 0 #95 May 14, 2005 It saddens me what's going on in the states, ie gay marriage/gay couples marriages being annuled. So much for it being 'the land of the free' Here in NZ, the Civil Union Act came ino force a couple of weeks ago and allows anyone gay/straight (but must be over 16) to form a legally recognised relationship. The NZ parliament also passed a companion act that changed the wording of hundreds of other acts (tax, next-of-kin, employment and so on) so that civil unions have *exactly* the same legal standing as a marriage. I think the NZ Parliament got it exactly right, the state now recognises same-sex relationships and puts them on the same level as marriage. We are now truly equal. Of course, some do argue that we aren't equal because we can't have a *marriage* but IMHO who would want to get married in a church anyway, an institution that really doesnt like gays at all. Interestingly enough, the first couple to have a civil union was a straight couple. Quite a few gay couples have tied the knot since then, and contrary to what the religious bigots said, the sky Hasn't fallen in. Russ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #96 May 14, 2005 QuoteI still don't understand why anyone _cares_ if gays want to marry each other.... It doesn't really affect anyone else, so why are some people so adamant about not letting them get married??? There are a lot of reasons cited, e.g., preserving the sanctity of marriage, protecting the institution of family, etc., but they are all a smokescreen IMO. The real reason is money. If gay marriages are given legal status, then employers with benefits plans that cover spouses will have to pay more for their benefits programs. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #97 May 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteGood, so where in the NT does it say gays should not be put to death? Don't know of any....But thats why I ASKED the question. Do you know? Maybe you know where in the NT it says they should not be? See I said that the NT over rides the OT.... Anyone know about gays in the NT? I don't care either way since I don't care about either anymore. http://www.bible.com/answers/ahomosex.html Edited to include the following brilliant personal insight: Personally, I think gays guys rock. In my version of a perfect world, every guy on the planet except me would be gay and all the hot jumper chicks would be straight and very horny! Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
britboynz 0 #98 May 14, 2005 Quotehttp://www.bible.com/answers/ahomosex.html Cheers for a good laugh - especially liked the bit where it says: (4.) You must cut off all sources and relationships that would lead you back into sin. The Bible tells us to flee fornication (sexual sins). You must get out of any corrupt entanglements, or areas that you know will be a temptation to you. If you have been hooked on internet pornography subscribe to an Internet Service Provider that will filter out the pornography for you. Destroy all evil books and videos. What with all the boobie/sex threads on DZ.com, we're all sinners, totally beyond salvation. I Demand Sangiro close the place down now. Quote Personally, I think gays guys rock. Sweet. How YOU doin? [edited for spleeing] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
