Good news! Marine cleared in shooting probe!

[justinb138 0]

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Military officials now report that the same corporal shot three of the unarmed insurgents inside the mosque.

There, fixed it for ya.

Easy to understand. Unarmed against armed. A fine and fair point of view seen from the armed party.. Oh wait, I forgot: There were 3 of unarmed insurgents? Now, that makes sense ...

I don't know what the soldier was thinking at the time and I never will, but taking the media story at face value and assuming that the soldier just murdered 3 innocent people is ignorant.

Given the situation, I think think the shooter was justified in his actions.

[Darius11 12]

Ya know that according to the Geneva that you can't use a house of worship as a base for combat

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Come on Ron your not trying to say all of a sudden we The United States of America start giving a flying fuck about the rules of war. Oh wait isn't there something in there about not killing unarmed people who are not a threat? Or how about executing an injured man. Oh I forgot we only follow the rules of war when it is convenient for us right. Isn't there another word for that what is it.....................oh hypocrisy that’s it

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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[Ron 10]

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Easy to understand. Unarmed against armed. A fine and fair point of view seen from the armed party.. Oh wait, I forgot: There were 3 of unarmed insurgents? Now, that makes sense

I find it funny that you are assuming that they were innocent.

The guy that was IN the situation thought they were a threat...The judges that just rulled thought they were a threat.

I am willing to bet that the guy that was there, and the judges that just rulled have TONS more information that you do.

See if the judges had found him guilty, I would assume that he was guilty since the judges have info I don't have....

Why is it impossible for you to assume he was justified? Other than your constant "the US can't do right" thinking?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[n23x 0]

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Right but given the choice of listening to the US judges, or the terrorists....I'll go with the US judges.

You it seems would rather just assume that the US and its troops are bad and evil.

Ever served in the Military? Even been in a situation where you were going to be shot at?

If not, don't pretend to know.

You are right about one thing...no level of punishment would have been enough anyway. you and your type will demand more. The terrorists will not care about this trooper, or Englands jail sentance.

They will just strap exposives on and kill an American...Even if they the person they kidnap and kill was a Red Cross aid worker.

We at least kill the ones that were just trying to kill us.

I don't pretend to know what it's like to be in that kind of situation, Ron.

But those are some pretty big blanket statements to justify killing. War or not.

Further, let's be absolutely certain that you understand that military service makes you not even the slightest better of somone who chooses not to serve.

It's a respectful choice. But you are no better, no worse.

And for everybody else who responded to this thread with "there shouldn't be any rules, or there shouldn't be questioning of soldiers actions", that is such a cavalier view of life.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[markd_nscr986 0]

Did you know...........

That most of the "homicide" bombers hitting our units over there are not Iraqis?

That Syrian special forces went across the border and engaged US Marines in firefights?

That medical personnel in these same Marine units volunteer during their downtime to provide health care to Muslim men women and children?

And that these same Marines when coming under fire from Mosques,went to great pains and at great personal risk to themselves to avoid flattening them with airstrikes or artillery?

That getting rid of Saddam was a good thing?

particularly if you are a Kurd or Shia......

No?????

I didn't think so

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[justinb138 0]

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We make decisions in life. The decisions we make have consequences.

The decisions made by the soldier could have likely saved his life. I would bet that there are a few dead or wounded men that wish they would have done the same thing.

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When we make mistakes we should pay for them not get a pat on the back.

We also learn from our mistakes to make better decisions in the future.

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The fact that a block away there was a booby-trap doesn’t give you the license to kill UNARMED or injured people when you feel like it.

It's called war. People die. He killed to protect himself and others against a very possible threat.

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Here I fixed it for you. I am sure my misspelling of one word had made it impossible for you to understand so I hope that helps.

If you're going to nitpick you could have at least fixed the rest of the sentance.

[Ron 10]

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Come on Ron your not trying to say all of a sudden we The United States of America start giving a flying fuck about the rules of war

Never said we just started to...you claim we don't.

If we did not use ROE...The place would be a parking lot already.

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Oh wait isn't there something in there about not killing unarmed people who are not a threat?

AH, see the thing is he WAS a threat. See the guy in the situation thought he was a threat, and so did the judges that said he was a threat.

Now lest think about the logically for a second...We have:

1. A soldier that recieved fire from the Mosque, and after a fire fight with an enemy that is known for bobbie trapping bodies, and "surrendering" then opening fire...Finding a wounded insurgent "faking" to be dead, not asking for help, not trying to surender...Playing dead. So we have the guy actually IN the situation.

We also have a judge that I bet had plenty more info about this case than you or I have saying that the shooting was justified.

And we have me that has Military service and agrees with both the guy on the scene, and the judge that rulled on it.

On the other hand we have:
2. You. A guy that got his info from a news artical. And a guy that has at every opportunity slammed the US.

Do you have more intel than me? Nope, I bet you have the SAME amount of info that I do.

Do you have more info than the JUDGE? I doubt it.

Do you have more knowledge about this that THE PEOPLE INVOLVED? Again, I doubt it. Now he might have tried to cover his actions.

So while your opinion is equal to mine since we have the same intel....I think that the soldier (who might be trying to hide something) and the JUDGE who had more intel than you or I....Knows more than you or I about this.

I also find it funny that you NEVER side with the US, and always defend the insurgents......Even when you don't have anything other than a news report to base your evidence on.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[justinb138 0]

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Come on Ron your not trying to say all of a sudden we The United States of America start giving a flying fuck about the rules of war.

If the US didn't give a shit, there would not have been a trial or investigation.

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Oh wait isn't there something in there about not killing unarmed people who are not a threat? Or how about executing an injured man. Oh I forgot we only follow the rules of war when it is convenient for us right. Isn't there another word for that what is it

Isn't there something about not executing innocent civilians on television? Isn't there something about soldiers not dressing up as civilians? Isn't there alot more bullshit that the enemy is doing that you don't seem to give a damn about?

If the insurgents aren't going to follow the rules, why should the US?

Take your bullshit double-standards elsewhere.

[Ron 10]

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I don't pretend to know what it's like to be in that kind of situation, Ron.

Then what makes you think you are qualified to make judgments?

Thats like a whuffo making judgements about skydivers and skydiving.

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But those are some pretty big blanket statements to justify killing. War or not.

Ah WAR is about killing. in this case you are nothing more than a whuffo.

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Further, let's be absolutely certain that you understand that military service makes you not even the slightest better of somone who chooses not to serve.

Did I say that serving makes yo a better person? Nope. I DID say that serviving means you know TONS more than someone that has never served....Do you believe skydiving reports in the newspaper? You are a whuffo when it comes to combat. You know just as much about war or the military as the guy that has never jumped and thinks its stupid.

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It's a respectful choice. But you are no better, no worse.

Lets be clear...I NEVER said that serving makes you better. I DO SAY that you do not have the frame of reference, or the knowledge to make educated comments about combat and warfare.

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And for everybody else who responded to this thread with "there shouldn't be any rules, or there shouldn't be questioning of soldiers actions", that is such a cavalier view of life.

Did I say that? Nope.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Darius11 12]

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Did you know...........

That most of the "homicide" bombers hitting our units over there are not Iraqis?

That Syrian special forces went across the border and engaged US Marines in firefights?

That medical personnel in these same Marine units volunteer during their downtime to provide health care to Muslim men women and children?

And that these same Marines when coming under fire from Mosques,went to great pains and at great personal risk to themselves to avoid flattening them with airstrikes or artillery?

That getting rid of Saddam was a good thing?

particularly if you are a Kurd or Shia......

No?????

I didn't think so

Yes I did know even if you do assume that I didn't.

Do you know how many innocent people we have killed as collateral damage?

Do you know the reason we started this war in the first place? Do you know we were wrong?

Do you know there is a lot of people out there much more dangerous then Sadam?

Do you know we supported Sadam during the Iran and Iraq war when it was convenient for us?

Do you know we supported OBL when it was convenient?

Do you know OBL didn't change over night he did the same thing when we supported him? No rights for woman, and he was a terrorist but at that time we called them freedom fighters because they were fighting the evil Russians.

I have a lot of “Do you knows” want to hear more?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

If the insurgents aren't going to follow the rules, why should the US?

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Because we are claiming to be better then them aren't we?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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[justinb138 0]

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If the insurgents aren't going to follow the rules, why should the US?

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Because we are claiming to be better then them aren't we?

I can't really think of any legitimate Geneva convention violations by the US. Some may be borderline, but those are very few.

I just don't understand how you can bitch about one sides actions, but not about the others.

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[n23x 0]

You don't say it outright, but you imply it every time you use the statement "your type".

Further, to incite that nobody but some battle-burnt soldier could analyze the morality or "correctness" of a situation in war is just rediculous, Ron.

How recently have you been to Iraq Ron? x number of months? Then how dare you suggest that this soldier did right when you didnt fight with him. You weren't there.

Certainly you can see how rediculous that is.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[justinb138 0]

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You don't say it outright, but you imply it every time you use the statement "your type".

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Please don't start with that "you people" BS. You know what he meant.

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Further, to incite that nobody but some battle-burnt soldier could analyze the morality or "correctness" of a situation in war is just rediculous, Ron.

Things aren't a black and white as they seem in the media. You don't seem to understand that.

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How recently have you been to Iraq Ron? x number of months? Then how dare you suggest that this soldier did right when you didnt fight with him. You weren't there.

Were you?

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Certainly you can see how rediculous this is.

Fixed it.

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[christelsabine 1]

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Easy to understand. Unarmed against armed. A fine and fair point of view seen from the armed party.. Oh wait, I forgot: There were 3 of unarmed insurgents? Now, that makes sense

I find it funny that you are assuming that they were innocent.

The guy that was IN the situation thought they were a threat...The judges that just rulled thought they were a threat.

I am willing to bet that the guy that was there, and the judges that just rulled have TONS more information that you do.

See if the judges had found him guilty, I would assume that he was guilty since the judges have info I don't have....

Why is it impossible for you to assume he was justified? Other than your constant "the US can't do right" thinking?

Ron, I was not saying they were innocent. That at first.
At second, you are right: People on the spot know much more than I know. They know much more than you know, too. But, which side is judging the whole situation? We - I mean, the uninformed rest of the world - only will be able to read one-sided information, right? "Your" information, right?

Really, Ron, that is one silly remark: ...your constant "the US can't do right" thinking?... I never said that, you don't walk in my shoes and cannot talk for me, OK?

Please, get your feet back on the ground. I am against the Iraq war, not against the US itself. I thought, you know that.

Christel

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Darius11 12]

I just don't understand how you can bitch about one sides actions, but not about the others.

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Simple I hold us to a much higher standard then I do a murderer. I don't view us as fanatics who have no regard for human rights. I think by supporting the few bad apples we have just because of pride. We are endangering are integrity as a country.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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[Ron 10]

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You don't say it outright, but you imply it every time you use the statement "your type".

No actually "your type" is a reference to the military whuffos like you that think they know more about combat situations than the guys that are IN combat.

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Further, to incite that nobody but some battle-burnt soldier could analyze the morality or "correctness" of a situation in war is just rediculous, Ron.

No, its called logical. How can you claim to know something is correct in a given the situation if you have never been in that situation, or anything like that situation....Thats like a skydiving whuffo asking why you just don't try to fall into a pool if your chute does not open.

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How recently have you been to Iraq Ron? x number of months? Then how dare you suggest that this soldier did right when you didnt fight with him. You weren't there.

OK wanna play that game?

How long and what unit did you serve? Cause I bet I'll win this one.

What would you think of me if I came to you and started trying to tell you about being a Machinist? Ya know how you or your buddies could have done better. But when I tell you that I have never been a machinist and you bring that up I tell you that it does not matter...Any idiot can tell if something will work.

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Certainly you can see how rediculous that is.

I would hope you would see how ridiculus it is for you (who has never been in the military and gets all his intel from CNN,Fox, and MSNBC) to claim to know more about a situation than Me a former Infantryman (ya know the ones who do the shooting) the Judge whos job it is to rule on if a shoot was good or not (I bet he has ruled on more of these than you or I), and the trooper who WAS ACTUALLY THERE.

You wanna jump me for not having been there....Well last I checked you did not a CIB. He does.

What makes you think you know more than him?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[christelsabine 1]

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Come on Ron your not trying to say all of a sudden we The United States of America start giving a flying fuck about the rules of war.

If the US didn't give a shit, there would not have been a trial or investigation.

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Oh wait isn't there something in there about not killing unarmed people who are not a threat? Or how about executing an injured man. Oh I forgot we only follow the rules of war when it is convenient for us right. Isn't there another word for that what is it

Isn't there something about not executing innocent civilians on television? Isn't there something about soldiers not dressing up as civilians? Isn't there alot more bullshit that the enemy is doing that you don't seem to give a damn about?

If the insurgents aren't going to follow the rules, why should the US?

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Which rules, Justin B.? The war rules of the US invadors???
Invading a country, calling every citizen an insurgent??


Can't help myself, still getting angry after that long time since the invasion.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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[justinb138 0]

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Simple I hold us to a much higher standard then I do a murderer. I don't view us as fanatics who have no regard for human rights. I think by supporting the few bad apples we have just because of pride. We are endangering are integrity as a country.

Okay. I disagree with your view on this case, but at least now I understand your opinion.

[justinb138 0]

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Which rules, Justin B.? The war rules of the US invadors???

The Geneva convention thingy.

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Invading a country, calling every citizen an insurgent??

They don't call everyone an insurgent. Just the ones that try to kill them.

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Can't help myself, still getting angry after that long time since the invasion.

Just think happy thoughts.

[beowulf 1]

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Which rules, Justin B.? The war rules of the US invadors???
Invading a country, calling every citizen an insurgent??

Christelsabine: I have found that very little of what you say makes any sense( and that has nothing to do with your english) but this makes the least amount of sense. Where did you get that the US considers all Iraqi's as insurgents?

[Ron 10]

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Christelsabine: I have found that very little of what you say makes any sense( and that has nothing to do with your english) but this makes the least amount of sense. Where did you get that the US considers all Iraqi's as insurgents?

I guess CNN said so.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Darius11 12]

Christelsabine: I have found that very little of what you say makes any sense( and that has nothing to do with your english) but this makes the least amount of sense. Where did you get that the US considers all Iraqi's as insurgents?

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Well any one who stands against our troops that’s what we call them so I guess that’s where he gets it from.


I never hear them called a group who is not for the invasions or freedom fighters do you?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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[beowulf 1]

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Christelsabine: I have found that very little of what you say makes any sense( and that has nothing to do with your english) but this makes the least amount of sense. Where did you get that the US considers all Iraqi's as insurgents?

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Well any one who stands against our troops that’s what we call them so I guess that’s where he gets it from.


I never hear them called a group who is not for the invasions or freedom fighters do you?

hmmmm that doesn't make sense either. From what I have seen on TV and from people that I have talked to that were on leave from the military most of the Iraqi's are not a part of the insurgents.

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[Darius11 12]

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Christelsabine: I have found that very little of what you say makes any sense( and that has nothing to do with your english) but this makes the least amount of sense. Where did you get that the US considers all Iraqi's as insurgents?

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Well any one who stands against our troops that’s what we call them so I guess that’s where he gets it from.


I never hear them called a group who is not for the invasions or freedom fighters do you?

hmmmm that doesn't make sense either. From what I have seen on TV and from people that I have talked to that were on leave from the military most of the Iraqi's are not a part of the insurgents.

You say most not all right?

I wonder why we call ALL of them insurgents

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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