Feinstein Pushes Ignorant Gun Control, AGAIN

[Kennedy 0]

H.R. 654

S. 935

Feinstein and her fellow hoplophonbes in congress are showing themselves to be either fools, liars, or both once again.

They define a "fifty caliber sniper rifle" as any "rifle capable of firing a center-fire cartridge in .50 caliber, .50 BMG caliber, any other variant of .50 caliber, or any metric equivalent of such calibers.'."

I'm going to completely ignore the idea that any rifle firing 50 BMG ammunition is a "sniper weapon." (idiotic as the idea is, the following are far more demostrative)

First, let's jst consider other ammunition that fits the desciption. There is the .50 Beowulf. Hardly a sniper rifle. You can see pictures of the gun here and pictures of the ammo here

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.50 Beowulf is designed to generate devastating stopping power at short to moderate ranges. Combining the rugged reliability of the AR15/M16 style weapons with a unique .500 inch projectile and cartridge, this semi automatic weapon is ideal as a brush hunting weapon which is capable of knocking down virtually anything you may run across. For wild pig hunting the rifle is without equal and is now being used not only by hunters but by game control agencies. Deer in close cover are easily taken with solid hits guaranteeing one shot kills and little or no tracking. The same reliable combination of heavy large diameter bullets and moderate velocities enables the Beowulf to tackle the largest game animals found in North America and it has been used against Elk, Buffalo and Bear with superb results.

A rifle whose intended use is 200 yards or less. Does that sound like a sniper rifle to you?

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Even more telling, their talking points show that this is just the foot in the door, anoter "incremental step" towards banning guns. How do I know? I read the tripe they routinely publish. The people pushing this ban suggest themselves, in plain English, that this is only their first step.

Their next step, and they freely admit it, is to ban "intermediate sniper weapons." Want to know how they define those? They define them as .30 caliber bolt action rifles that mght have free floated barrels, fiberglass stocks, match- or bull barrels (heavy barrels), or any .30 that is more accurate than the shooter is capable of utilizing.

For anyone who doesn't know, that "intermediate sniper rifle" defintion just included every hunting rifle I can think of.

A very wise man once said "They'll never ban your hunting rifle; they'd call it a sniper rifle frst." Well, he's be proven correct.

This is one more anti-gun law that would have no effect on crime whatsoever, and they want to push it just so that when they offer the next gun ban, it will seem a little less extreme, a little more palatable to the general public.

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Oh, the best part of the bill (worst, really) is what they want to do with all modern .50 caliber rifles. The bills want to treat all .50 cal rifles as class three weapons for the current owners. That requires very intrusive FBI and ATF checks, and giving up your fourth amendment rights. However, the most disgusting part of the bills is that they want to make all transfer illegal. They want to treat these rifle harsher than machine guns. The laws say that no one may sell, give, or in anyway transfer the guns to anyone else, EVER. Upon the death of the owner, the guns become property of the US government.

Think they'll never come for you hunting guns? They've already gone after semi-auto shotguns and hunting firearms. Do you think your rifles aren't next?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mr2mk1g 10]

Rebore your rifle to .51 calibre and put slightly bigger but legal holes in everything.

[Kennedy 0]

Yup. A gun for .499 caliber and .501 caliber are ok, but that .50 is just evil.

It's kinda like that eleventh round they're always bitching about. Somehow the first ten are ok, but that eleventh one is just pure evil and only meant to hurt people.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[markd_nscr986 0]

Just curiosity on my part,but.......

doesnt Feinstein have a concealed carry permit in a state where it is just about impossible to get one?

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[mr2mk1g 10]

ps. I'm on the lookout at the moment for a nice .62 calibre ex-military snipers rifle... I don't even need a license for it... even has a bayonet lug.

[Jib 0]

They are already trying to ban Remington 700's etc as sniper rifles because the military used similar rifles for sniping.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[justinb138 0]

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Their next step, and they freely admit it, is to ban "intermediate sniper weapons." Want to know how they define those? They define them as .30 caliber bolt action rifles that mght have free floated barrels, fiberglass stocks, match- or bull barrels (heavy barrels), or any .30 that is more accurate than the shooter is capable of utilizing.

Remeber the sniper a year or two a go that was shooting people from a car in the easern US? IIRC, he was using a .223 caliber rifle, which would not be affected if those laws were passed. If they are trying to pass laws to stop "snipers", they should at least make their reasoning believeable.

What makes a .50 any more deadly than a .45 or .308? These people are just damn nuts.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Hey, is this going to make it illegal for me to use that nice Desert Eagle they have at the gun range I go to when visiting Perris? After all the Desert Eagle is a .50 calibre and has a rifled barrel. Not exactly a great weapon for snipers mind.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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What makes a .50 any more deadly than a .45 or .308? These people are just damn nuts.

The kinetic energy it carries. If I'm gonna get hit by something I'd much rather be hit by a .308 than a .50.
I thought the logic behind these laws were that .50 weapons were not just designed as anti-personel weapons but also to take out vehicles and equipment. Thus they were worried about terrorists taking out planes with them.

[Kennedy 0]

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Doesnt Feinstein have a concealed carry permit in a state where it is just about impossible to get one?

That is correct. The woman campaigning against concealed carry, who hails from a town trying to ban handguns, hasa concealed carry permit for herself.

What, have you forgotten that laws are only for us little people, and our great masters are not to be trifled with?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[justinb138 0]

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The kinetic force it carries. If I'm gonna get hit by something I'd much rather be hit by a .308 than a .50.

True, but in the hands of a "sniper", both would likely be equally lethal.

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I thought the logic behind these laws were that .50 weapons were not just designed as anti-personel weapons but also to take out vehicles and equipment. Thus they were worried about terrorists taking out planes with them.

That sounds like a more reasonable (but equally crazy) excuse. If a terrorist or criminal wants a .50 to take out a vehicle, they're going to get one, laws aren't going to stop them.

[justinb138 0]

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Doesnt Feinstein have a concealed carry permit in a state where it is just about impossible to get one?

That is correct. The woman campaigning against concealed carry, who hails from a town trying to ban handguns, hasa concealed carry permit for herself.

What, have you forgotten that laws are only for us little people, and our great masters are not to be trifled with?

Yep. The "Do as I say, not as I do" thing that is so common in the political world.

[Kennedy 0]

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I thought the logic behind these laws...

Logic? Vee don't need no steenkeeng LOGIC!!
[/impression]

Come on man, they're legislators. Since when does logic come into play?

Besides, a .30 cal rifle could take out that plane engine just as nicely as that .50 cal. The difference is that Feinstein seems to think that a .50 cal gives the user magical powers.

http://cbs5.com/localwire/localfsnews/bcn/2005/05/01/n/HeadlineNews/SNIPER-RIFLE/resources_bcn_html

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"For instance, a sniper atop the Washington Monument (with a .50-caliber rifle) could target anybody or anything within a four-mile radius, including the White House, the Capitol, every building on or around the Mall, and aircraft flying in and out of Reagan National Airport,'' Feinstein said in a statement.

The rifles are currently classified in the same category as .22-caliber target rifles and .30-06-caliber hunting rifles.
(of course they'll want to move the .30-06 into the "sniper category next, and ban the .22 as ammo for saturday night specials)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[AggieDave 6]

A 4 mile radius, huh?

That's one hell of a good shooter, even with a heavy round.

That's why all the world champion long distance shooters are all shooting over 5 miles right now.

That's a bit like saying "someone with a Velocity 96 could swoop 700ft if they wanted to, and landing areas need to be larger for them..." or some other worthless uneducated drabble.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mr2mk1g 10]

Hmmm taking the skydiving analogy further it’s the same as saying someone with a velo 96 could swoop over 500ft while someone on a sabre 190 could not… but in reality only an exceptional individual could swoop over 500ft after dedicating a hell of a lot of training to it even with a velo… and that same person would still be a bad ass swooper under the sabre190… just not over quite the same distance.

She’s effectively right that someone could shoot anything (within line of sight) within a 4 mile radius with a .50 cal and that in all likelihood the same shot would not be possible with a lesser rifle… but hell they’d have to be good… and besides, that really good sniper would be just as lethal over shorter distances with a lesser rifle… say like am 1891 6.5mm mannlicher carcano Italian heap o'junk(for the buffs).

[AggieDave 6]

No, no, no. A 4 mile shot is basically impossible. That's why i was so damned sarcastic in my previous post.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[markd_nscr986 0]

***What, have you forgotten that laws are only for us little people, and our great masters are not to be trifled with?


Shades of "Rosie"

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[mr2mk1g 10]

ok, so what is the current record for a kill about 1.5 miles isn't it? Yeah, you're right, she's wrong there.

I don't know - how far away could you hit a vehicular target?

edit: I guess she's getting her 4 mile thing from the maximum range figures for the M107... but I wouldn't like to think how poor the velocity would be out that far. I figure the round would be tumbling by then too so no good on accuracy?

[Kennedy 0]

The best shooters in the world still compete at 1,000 yards. They have ideal conditions, and they still have trouble.

One mile is 1760 yards, so the best in the world have trouble with two thirds of a mile.

Side note: longest recorded kill was by Carlos Hathcock, but he was not using a rifle. He used a single shot from a tripod mounted machine gun that weighs more than a man can carry.

edit: you're right on with your "edit" statements.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mr2mk1g 10]

Thought that was recently beaten by a Canadian?

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/KillingShot_2430Metres.asp

[kelpdiver 2]

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Hey, is this going to make it illegal for me to use that nice Desert Eagle they have at the gun range I go to when visiting Perris? After all the Desert Eagle is a .50 calibre and has a rifled barrel. Not exactly a great weapon for snipers mind.

I'm not sure it's legal now to use the DE in CA. What did last year's bill cover? Maybe just the long bore. And why did Arnold sign it?

[Ron 10]

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That is correct. The woman campaigning against concealed carry, who hails from a town trying to ban handguns, hasa concealed carry permit for herself.

What, have you forgotten that laws are only for us little people, and our great masters are not to be trifled with?

I would love to be in a position with some clout. Everytime this dumbass tries to do something like this I would wave a copy of her gun permit, and hand out copies to the press.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnRich 4]

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Rebore your rifle to .51 calibre and put slightly bigger but legal holes in everything.

Actually, modern firearms (black powder excepted) are already limited by law to no larger than .50 caliber.

So what this Bill is attempting to do is to ratchet down the legal range of acceptable calibers.

Other guns are "too small" for the anti-gun folks.

So it becomes a game of Goldilocks' porridge, where some is too hot, and some is too cold. Soon, there won't by any at all that are "just right".

I expect someone to invent the .49 caliber BMG rifle and cartridge any day now.

[JohnRich 4]

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doesnt Feinstein have a concealed carry permit in a state where it is just about impossible to get one?

Yes.

On April 27th, during Senate hearings on terrorism in the wake of the
Oklahoma City bombing, Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), chief sponsor of last year's controversial "assault" weapons ban, recalled that:

"Less than 20 years ago I was the target of a terrorist
group. It was the New World Liberation Front. They blew up power stations and put a bomb at my home..." Luckily, the bomb did not detonate. Later, the same group shot out all the windows of my home."

Feinstein admitted that due to her personal experience she knows:

"...the sense of helplessness that people feel, the urge to arm yourself, because that's what I did. I was trained in firearms. I'd walk to the hospital when my husband
[who was dying of cancer] was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me."

So, it's okay for her to carry a concealed handgun, because she might need to defend herself. But it's not okay for the rest of us to have that same right...

[JohnRich 4]

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No, no, no. A 4 mile shot is basically impossible. That's why i was so damned sarcastic in my previous post.

Correct. That's one clue that the claims the anti-gun folks are making are just hype. They're all about lying to the public, scaring them into a hysteria, so that they'll support the ban.

To shoot 4 miles with that rifle, you would have to point the barrel up in the air at a 45 degree angle. And doing that, you aren't going to hit anything intentionally. It would be pure random chance where the bullet comes back down. And by then, it just becomes like a falling rock, without any of the initial high velocity.

Some of the best sniper shots ever made, are "only" in the range of one mile, or a mile and a half.