billvon 3,120 #126 May 4, 2005 > you can stop from orgasiming (sp) i do it all the time . . . Cool, but what is true for you is not true for all. Some women have less control than that. In general guys have less control overall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #127 May 4, 2005 okay since we are speaking in general, if a man is sleeping and his girlfriend wakes him up with a bj and he says no cause he wants to go back to sleep , and she stops is it still rape?Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #128 May 4, 2005 Quote>And what starts out as non-consensual can become consensual >at sometime during the act. Agreed. But now you're talking about seduction rather than consent. If one of the people says 'stop' (or whatever they use instead) and the other person doesn't, that's when it becomes a crime. And if you re-read the thread, you will see thats all I've ever said. I talked about women who ended up giving the rapist their phone number. Obviously, for her to do this, there would have to be consent at some time during the act or even afterwards. I think you are arguing whether a tree makes a sound when it falls if nobody hears it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #129 May 4, 2005 Quoteyou can stop from orgasiming (sp) i do it all the time, just think of bumble bees, ill experience or thought process can and will stop. At least for a woman, and if he didnt want it then he should have said NO , or pushed her off of him, there are many men out there who cannot stop from having an orgasm, no matter how hard they try. that is why, in my line of work as a research analyst, there is so much study about rapid ejaculation. and what if he felt he COULDN'T say no? maybe he was afraid to hurt her feelings. maybe he feared she would fly into a rage and hurt him. maybe the part of him that was enjoying it overroad his desire not to be part of it. that doesn't change that he never consented. maybe he's a sex addict and he lacked the capacity to SAY no -- that brings up many other questions, but it doesn't change the wrongful nature of HER actions. B/c he DIDN'T say no doesn't mean it WASN'T rape. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #130 May 4, 2005 if a man speaks in the woods and there isnt a woman around to hear him is he still wrong? well of courseSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #131 May 4, 2005 >if a man is sleeping and his girlfriend wakes him up with a bj and he >says no cause he wants to go back to sleep , and she stops is it still rape? No; she had a reasonable expectation that starting it would be OK (since presumably she did it before) and then stopped when he said that it wasn't OK. Had the woman been a stranger, it would have been a lot more murky; imagine waking up to find a strange man had taken your clothes off and was going down on you. At that point you might well say 'cut it out' and he might stop, but you might still decide a crime had been committed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #132 May 4, 2005 how can it be anything else but consensual if there was no violence, no implied violence and no words or actions to stop the action. That means I have raped alot of men, because i have not recieved permission everytime I have sex, hmmm not alot of men per saySudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #133 May 4, 2005 > how can it be anything else but consensual if there was no violence, >no implied violence and no words or actions to stop the action. If you get someone so drunk they pass out, then have sex with them, it is often considered rape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #134 May 4, 2005 they werent strangers, in general what happened here was implied consent. My point in all my comments is this lawsuit was wrong, they convicted a woman who gave a man a bj , he smiled, he umm finished and next morning filed for rape.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #135 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteyou can stop from orgasiming (sp) i do it all the time, just think of bumble bees, ill experience or thought process can and will stop. At least for a woman, and if he didnt want it then he Quoteshould have said NO , or pushed her off of him, there are many men out there who cannot stop from having an orgasm, no matter how hard they try. that is why, in my line of work as a research analyst, there is so much study about rapid ejaculation. Quoteand what if he felt he COULDN'T say no? maybe he was afraid to hurt her feelings. maybe he feared she would fly into a rage and hurt him. maybe the part of him that was enjoying it overroad his desire not to be part of it. that doesn't change that he never consented. maybe he's a sex addict and he lacked the capacity to SAY no -- that brings up many other questions, but it doesn't change the wrongful nature of HER actions. B/c he DIDN'T say no doesn't mean it WASN'T rape. Are you really serious? Turn that around for a second and lets suppose a woman has sex with a man she's been dating. After a night of wild passionate sex, she goes to the police and says "I didn't want to have sex with him, but I was afraid I'd hurt his feelings". You really believe this is a rape??? Really??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #136 May 4, 2005 Quotethey werent strangers, in general what happened here was implied consent. My point in all my comments is this lawsuit was wrong, they convicted a woman who gave a man a bj , he smiled, he umm finished and next morning filed for rape. I guess I missed the part where you were a witness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lisamariewillbe 1 #137 May 4, 2005 this guy woke up though, and more date rapes have been aquited because of that not being true, now if its drugs or something and well this is getting off topic. Sorry. Anyways , that man was not raped, that woman shouldnt be in jail. My opinion.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #138 May 4, 2005 Quotehow can it be anything else but consensual if there was no violence, no implied violence and no words or actions to stop the action. That means I have raped alot of men, because i have not recieved permission everytime I have sex, hmmm not alot of men per say i wonder if you read my post at all... there are several possible explanations for him not saying no. that doesn't mean she didn't rape him. and how exactly do you define violence? presence of blood? bruising? scratches? how about if I spit on you? isn't that considered an act of violence? violence isn't always physical. It can be emotional, psychological, etc. nothing changes the fact that at no time did the guy say hey, ya know, I'm glad you're sucking me off... please continue. the onus is on HER to prove she had his consent or permission, and starting the act while he is sleeping sure doesn't help her case. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #139 May 4, 2005 Quoteokay since we are speaking in general, if a man is sleeping and his girlfriend wakes him up with a bj and he says no cause he wants to go back to sleep , and she stops is it still rape? under strict definition if she doesnt stop yes it is... being in a relationship doesnt change the definition of 'rape' still i tend to agree, an adult male who who reports a 'freebee' from a female who he knowingly allowed into his home for a bj is (imo)a wuss... every issue should always be dealt with at the lowest level possible.... filing charges in such an instance is simply a gross over reaction...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lisamariewillbe 1 #140 May 4, 2005 do ya read the papers, he didnt deny what she said , she said he smiled he didnt deny, its not on video and from what i hear if it isnt on video it didnt happen.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #141 May 4, 2005 I was giving the poster examples of why perhaps the man didn't say no... I didn't say that the example you quote could count as rape. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #142 May 4, 2005 Quote>if a man is sleeping and his girlfriend wakes him up with a bj and he >says no cause he wants to go back to sleep , and she stops is it still rape? No; she had a reasonable expectation that starting it would be OK (since presumably she did it before) and then stopped when he said that it wasn't OK. Had the woman been a stranger, it would have been a lot more murky; imagine waking up to find a strange man had taken your clothes off and was going down on you. At that point you might well say 'cut it out' and he might stop, but you might still decide a crime had been committed. Why do you keep bringing in a "stranger" to the story. Seems pretty obvious the 2 people in the story knew each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #143 May 4, 2005 filing charges in such an instance is simply a gross over reaction... *** although it seems he was w/i his rights to file charges, you certainly have a point there... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #144 May 4, 2005 Quotedo ya read the papers, he didnt deny what she said , she said he smiled he didnt deny, its not on video and from what i hear if it isnt on video it didnt happen. Dont you read the papers? Here is the quote from the article: Quote The incident occurred on Jan. 4 last year in a Bergen apartment. The man testified that he fell asleep on a sofa and woke up to find the woman performing oral sex on him. The woman eventually admitted sexual contact but claimed that it was voluntary and that the man was willing and smiled. I don't see where he said it was voluntary, she only claimed it was. She performed a sexual act on him without his consent. That's rape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #145 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuotedo ya read the papers, he didnt deny what she said , she said he smiled he didnt deny, its not on video and from what i hear if it isnt on video it didnt happen. Dont you read the papers? Here is the quote from the article: Quote The incident occurred on Jan. 4 last year in a Bergen apartment. The man testified that he fell asleep on a sofa and woke up to find the woman performing oral sex on him. The woman eventually admitted sexual contact but claimed that it was voluntary and that the man was willing and smiled. I don't see where he said it was voluntary, she only claimed it was. She performed a sexual act on him without his consent. That's rape. And again... why is it that so many on this thread seem to think that the MAN needs to justify his actions? SHE is the one who got herself into the mess by doing something to the man while he was asleep! I think some of you would see this differently if the gender roles were reversed. (But then again, some of you probably wouldn't) -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lisamariewillbe 1 #146 May 4, 2005 to read one newspaper article and call it factual would be wrong, take for instence several, then put them all together weed out 99 percent and avg it out. There you have the truth , she was convicted because A. She started when he was sleeping and B it was his best friends girl that he had been messing with and probley didnt want the friend to hate him, now that B is part my speculationSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #147 May 4, 2005 QuoteI was giving the poster examples of why perhaps the man didn't say no... I didn't say that the example you quote could count as rape. Actually you did say that: QuoteB/c he DIDN'T say no doesn't mean it WASN'T rape. Isn't the definition of rape having sex with someone "after" they say no? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #148 May 4, 2005 >Why do you keep bringing in a "stranger" to the story. Seems >pretty obvious the 2 people in the story knew each other. Sorry, 'stranger' is a poor choice of words. I should have said "aquaintances that have not had previous sexual relations." The important issue is that if they had been involved sexually before, that implies consent to future sexual advances (unless otherwise discussed, of course.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #149 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteI was giving the poster examples of why perhaps the man didn't say no... I didn't say that the example you quote could count as rape. Actually you did say that: QuoteB/c he DIDN'T say no doesn't mean it WASN'T rape. Isn't the definition of rape having sex with someone "after" they say no? ok, you got me... bad example... but, do you see where I was coming from w/ those examples? -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #150 May 4, 2005 Quoteto read one newspaper article and call it factual would be wrong Well, the court found her guilty, that's good enough for me. YOU were the ones asking if I read the papers anyway. Quote There you have the truth , she was convicted because A. She started when he was sleeping and She started w/o consent. That's rape. Quote B it was his best friends girl that he had been messing with and probley didnt want the friend to hate him, now that B is part my speculation Good for him, it's still rape. I'll believe a court over your gender biased speculation any day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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justinb138 0 #136 May 4, 2005 Quotethey werent strangers, in general what happened here was implied consent. My point in all my comments is this lawsuit was wrong, they convicted a woman who gave a man a bj , he smiled, he umm finished and next morning filed for rape. I guess I missed the part where you were a witness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #137 May 4, 2005 this guy woke up though, and more date rapes have been aquited because of that not being true, now if its drugs or something and well this is getting off topic. Sorry. Anyways , that man was not raped, that woman shouldnt be in jail. My opinion.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #138 May 4, 2005 Quotehow can it be anything else but consensual if there was no violence, no implied violence and no words or actions to stop the action. That means I have raped alot of men, because i have not recieved permission everytime I have sex, hmmm not alot of men per say i wonder if you read my post at all... there are several possible explanations for him not saying no. that doesn't mean she didn't rape him. and how exactly do you define violence? presence of blood? bruising? scratches? how about if I spit on you? isn't that considered an act of violence? violence isn't always physical. It can be emotional, psychological, etc. nothing changes the fact that at no time did the guy say hey, ya know, I'm glad you're sucking me off... please continue. the onus is on HER to prove she had his consent or permission, and starting the act while he is sleeping sure doesn't help her case. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #139 May 4, 2005 Quoteokay since we are speaking in general, if a man is sleeping and his girlfriend wakes him up with a bj and he says no cause he wants to go back to sleep , and she stops is it still rape? under strict definition if she doesnt stop yes it is... being in a relationship doesnt change the definition of 'rape' still i tend to agree, an adult male who who reports a 'freebee' from a female who he knowingly allowed into his home for a bj is (imo)a wuss... every issue should always be dealt with at the lowest level possible.... filing charges in such an instance is simply a gross over reaction...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #140 May 4, 2005 do ya read the papers, he didnt deny what she said , she said he smiled he didnt deny, its not on video and from what i hear if it isnt on video it didnt happen.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #141 May 4, 2005 I was giving the poster examples of why perhaps the man didn't say no... I didn't say that the example you quote could count as rape. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #142 May 4, 2005 Quote>if a man is sleeping and his girlfriend wakes him up with a bj and he >says no cause he wants to go back to sleep , and she stops is it still rape? No; she had a reasonable expectation that starting it would be OK (since presumably she did it before) and then stopped when he said that it wasn't OK. Had the woman been a stranger, it would have been a lot more murky; imagine waking up to find a strange man had taken your clothes off and was going down on you. At that point you might well say 'cut it out' and he might stop, but you might still decide a crime had been committed. Why do you keep bringing in a "stranger" to the story. Seems pretty obvious the 2 people in the story knew each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #143 May 4, 2005 filing charges in such an instance is simply a gross over reaction... *** although it seems he was w/i his rights to file charges, you certainly have a point there... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #144 May 4, 2005 Quotedo ya read the papers, he didnt deny what she said , she said he smiled he didnt deny, its not on video and from what i hear if it isnt on video it didnt happen. Dont you read the papers? Here is the quote from the article: Quote The incident occurred on Jan. 4 last year in a Bergen apartment. The man testified that he fell asleep on a sofa and woke up to find the woman performing oral sex on him. The woman eventually admitted sexual contact but claimed that it was voluntary and that the man was willing and smiled. I don't see where he said it was voluntary, she only claimed it was. She performed a sexual act on him without his consent. That's rape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #145 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuotedo ya read the papers, he didnt deny what she said , she said he smiled he didnt deny, its not on video and from what i hear if it isnt on video it didnt happen. Dont you read the papers? Here is the quote from the article: Quote The incident occurred on Jan. 4 last year in a Bergen apartment. The man testified that he fell asleep on a sofa and woke up to find the woman performing oral sex on him. The woman eventually admitted sexual contact but claimed that it was voluntary and that the man was willing and smiled. I don't see where he said it was voluntary, she only claimed it was. She performed a sexual act on him without his consent. That's rape. And again... why is it that so many on this thread seem to think that the MAN needs to justify his actions? SHE is the one who got herself into the mess by doing something to the man while he was asleep! I think some of you would see this differently if the gender roles were reversed. (But then again, some of you probably wouldn't) -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #146 May 4, 2005 to read one newspaper article and call it factual would be wrong, take for instence several, then put them all together weed out 99 percent and avg it out. There you have the truth , she was convicted because A. She started when he was sleeping and B it was his best friends girl that he had been messing with and probley didnt want the friend to hate him, now that B is part my speculationSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #147 May 4, 2005 QuoteI was giving the poster examples of why perhaps the man didn't say no... I didn't say that the example you quote could count as rape. Actually you did say that: QuoteB/c he DIDN'T say no doesn't mean it WASN'T rape. Isn't the definition of rape having sex with someone "after" they say no? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #148 May 4, 2005 >Why do you keep bringing in a "stranger" to the story. Seems >pretty obvious the 2 people in the story knew each other. Sorry, 'stranger' is a poor choice of words. I should have said "aquaintances that have not had previous sexual relations." The important issue is that if they had been involved sexually before, that implies consent to future sexual advances (unless otherwise discussed, of course.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #149 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteI was giving the poster examples of why perhaps the man didn't say no... I didn't say that the example you quote could count as rape. Actually you did say that: QuoteB/c he DIDN'T say no doesn't mean it WASN'T rape. Isn't the definition of rape having sex with someone "after" they say no? ok, you got me... bad example... but, do you see where I was coming from w/ those examples? -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #150 May 4, 2005 Quoteto read one newspaper article and call it factual would be wrong Well, the court found her guilty, that's good enough for me. YOU were the ones asking if I read the papers anyway. Quote There you have the truth , she was convicted because A. She started when he was sleeping and She started w/o consent. That's rape. Quote B it was his best friends girl that he had been messing with and probley didnt want the friend to hate him, now that B is part my speculation Good for him, it's still rape. I'll believe a court over your gender biased speculation any day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites