Woman convicted of rape

[billvon 3,116]

>There is such a thing as consent after the fact. If you have ever read
> about the Boston Strangeler as an example, you will understand
> that he raped many women who never reported it.

Of course. It is still rape. Non-reporting of the crime for whatever reason (fear of embarassement, threats by the rapist) does not equate to consent in any way, shape or form.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>There is such a thing as consent after the fact. If you have ever read
> about the Boston Strangeler as an example, you will understand
> that he raped many women who never reported it.

Of course. It is still rape. Non-reporting of the crime for whatever reason (fear of embarassement, threats by the rapist) does not equate to consent in any way, shape or form.

No, Bill, you still don't understand. It isn't about fear or embarrassment. I seriously doubt a woman would give a rapist her phone number and ask him to call her. I know it's difficult for you to understand, but there are cases where a woman wants it to happen again. Have you ever hung out with Rock Stars or have any knowledge about what goes on other than what you read in the Fan magazines? Did you know some people are into things like strangulation? Yep, consensual strangulation. Hard to believe, huh?

[rasmack 0]

I hate to add such a boring thing as facts to this wonderful discussion, but I do have a few facts from scandinavian news sources (no English, sorry)

The woman performed oral sex on the man while her boyfriend was wathcing.

She did this, knowing perfectly well that he was engaged to be married, and that his girlfriend was pregnant.

Apparently this thing ruined his sex life as well as his engagement.

That makes it at the very least a sexual assault in my book. You may then argue the semantics of "rape" as much as you like. In the end it boils down to how it is defined in Norwegian law, which none of us probably know anything about.

Source: http://www.ekstrabladet.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=290665

Sorry. It is in Danish.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[Lindsey 0]

I seriously doubt a woman would give a rapist her phone number and ask him to call her. I know it's difficult for you to understand, but there are cases where a woman wants it to happen again.

There are twisted people in the world. If she eventually gives in....I still personally think it's rape, but it is kinda out there. What you argued, though, was that no consent does not equal rape. Consensual rape in BDSM still is consensual. We're talking about when she doesn't give consent. I don't understand why you think the subject is too controversial to talk about. This is SC...lol.

linz

[Vallerina 2]

I'm sorry, but your comments are so funny! If you're going to play up an angle, I wouldn't play up a "naive" angle with Bill.

Even if a man had non-consensual sex with a woman that later became involved with him, it doesn't make the non-consensual part any more consensual. (Yes, I know. Bad analogy time.) What if a stranger cut a cutter? Just because that person may not mind doesn't make the act any better. They may not report it (just like many people don't report it when they get punched in a bar.) It still doesn't make it legal.

Role-playing scenarios are very different than rape.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[sinker 0]

I'm sorry, but your comments are so funny! If you're going to play up an angle, I wouldn't play up a "naive" angle with Bill. ***

LOL! I was thinking the same thing...

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[lawrocket 3]

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Even if a man had non-consensual sex with a woman that later became involved with him, it doesn't make the non-consensual part any more consensual.

This is the same concept as in Revenge of the Nerds. Sure, Betty ended up with Gilbert, but he did rape her.

If you think about it, Prince Charming kissing Snow White while she was unconscious is also a battery...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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If you think about it, Prince Charming kissing Snow White while she was unconscious is also a battery...

Yep. Yet at the same time it wasn't an assault. The point being; the words people are discussing here have very specific legal meanings which the average man on the street generally does not appreciate. This ignorance of the precise meaning can lead to a degree of misuse of the word and you end up with silly arguments just like this one.

[Lindsey 0]

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If you think about it, Prince Charming kissing Snow White while she was unconscious is also a battery...

Yep. Yet at the same time it wasn't an assault. The point being; the words people are discussing here have very specific legal meanings which the average man on the street generally does not appreciate. This ignorance of the precise meaning can lead to a degree of misuse of the word and you end up with silly arguments just like this one.

Depends on which version you read....lol

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Kennedy 0]

The idea is that the circumstances of the act dictate whether or not it was rape, not what you decide at a later date.

You can't change your mind afterwards and affect the legal definition, no matter which way you change it.

You can sleep with someone willingly and then decide you didn't want to, but you gave consent so it wasn't rape.

You can be made to have sex unwillingly, and then decide afterwards that it wasn't so bad, but you didn't consent so it was rape.

Fetishes and fantasies and whatever else involve two willing (read consenting) parties, even if one is agreeing to give up free will.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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Depends on which version you read....lol [Blush]

So who's been telling you bedtime stories?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[lawrocket 3]

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Depends on which version you read

You cannot assault an unconscious person...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I think I saw that video.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'm sorry, but your comments are so funny! If you're going to play up an angle, I wouldn't play up a "naive" angle with Bill.

Even if a man had non-consensual sex with a woman that later became involved with him, it doesn't make the non-consensual part any more consensual. (Yes, I know. Bad analogy time.) What if a stranger cut a cutter? Just because that person may not mind doesn't make the act any better. They may not report it (just like many people don't report it when they get punched in a bar.) It still doesn't make it legal.

Role-playing scenarios are very different than rape.

So are you saying if someone allows you to punch them in the privacy of your own home, it's illegal?

[mr2mk1g 10]

A better analogy would be someone punching you without your permission in your own home and then you saying – "ah it's ok" afterwards.

That is an assault and battery period. You did not consent at the time, thus a crime was committed.

Sure afterwards you said not to worry about it, but that does not change the tenor of the act at the time it was done, it simply means the crime that was committed will go un-reported or if the police do find out, the victim won't press charges... but it does not mean the crime did not happen.

Now if you said "don't hit me" but actually didn't mind and privatly you were consenting but just lying to your attacker (playing some kind of mind game, whatever) - that's where things become interesting legally... as the person doing the punching has all done everything they need to do to committ a crime... it just so happens that unbeknown to them they haven't as the other consents.

Under the right circumstances, they may just find that they are guilty of a crime... even though perversly they actually haven't committed any crime.

I suspect this might vary from place to place though.

[Remster 30]

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So are you saying if someone allows you to punch them in the privacy of your own home, it's illegal?

Damm.. I hate being drawn into SC threads... lol..

I'm not a lawyer, so I dont know if its leagal or not... But it should not be illegal. Thats what consensual is about: they allow you to do so.

Remster

[lawrocket 3]

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better analogy would be someone punching you without your permission in your own home and then you saying – "ah it's ok" afterwards.

That is an assault and battery period. You did not consent at the time, thus a crime was committed.

If you saw it coming, that would be an assault and battery. If you got cold-cocked from behind and didn't see it coming, it'd be a battery without assault. If the dude swung and you dodged it, it'd be an assaut but not a battery.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Yeah - our laws are identical on that point. I suspect thats simply because they come from a time when we had a common legal system. Hell we still have active case law on assult and battery from pre independance times.

In fact - I wonder if you guys use the same case - recognise Turberville v Savage 1669 and the phrase "were it not assize time..."?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So are you saying if someone allows you to punch them in the privacy of your own home, it's illegal?

Damm.. I hate being drawn into SC threads... lol..

I'm not a lawyer, so I dont know if its leagal or not... But it should not be illegal. Thats what consensual is about: they allow you to do so.

Correct. Now look at what started this debate:

Kennedy said: "Here's a simple concept: no consent = Rape. Do you disagree?"


Gravitymaster responded with: "I disagree. It's only rape if the victim calls it a rape. Some people are into kinky sexual acts."

My main point being it isn't so vanilla and chocolate.

[billvon 3,116]

>Have you ever hung out with Rock Stars or have any knowledge about
>what goes on other than what you read in the Fan magazines?

No, nor have I read fan magazines. You ever dated identical twins?

>Did you know some people are into things like strangulation?
>Yep, consensual strangulation. Hard to believe, huh?

Ah, I see the confusion. You've hit upon the critical issue there - consent. If someone consents to something, either explicitly (i.e. "it's OK for you to strangle me while we're doing X Y and Z") or implicitly (i.e. inviting someone up to her room, turning down the lights, being an active participant in fooling around and taking each other's clothes off) then you're fine. Note that it doesn't really matter what they consent TO - they could consent to being pelted with dead cats, or cut with a knife, or play-acting a rape fantasy. It is the consent, not the act itself, which is the important part.

The problem arises when you take away the consent. When you force yourself on someone without their consent, that's rape. Even if the victim doesn't report it.

[sinker 0]

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they could consent to being pelted with dead cats

what's w/ you and this "being pelted w/ dead cats" business? I didn't peg your for a missionary-only man, but I also didn't anticipate this level of kink!

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Vallerina 2]

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This is the same concept as in Revenge of the Nerds. Sure, Betty ended up with Gilbert, but he did rape her.

I think I made a post about that awhile ago! Yes, he sure did rape her.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about consent.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[billvon 3,116]

>what's w/ you and this "being pelted w/ dead cats" business?

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Pick any odd thing that the Church Lady will be horrified at, and someone, somewhere is going to be into it. Dead cats, dead whales, Barbie dolls - take your pick, there's probably a newsgroup about that fetish.

Not that everyone agrees that it's OK to like them. Even within the BDSM community there's an acronym that's come into common usage - YKINOK - which stands for 'your kink is not OK.' I always thought that was a bit hypocritical, like a skydiver who thinks BASE jumpers are insane and have death wishes. But people are people.

[justinb138 0]

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>what's w/ you and this "being pelted w/ dead cats" business?

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

What about live cats?

[sinker 0]

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This is the same concept as in Revenge of the Nerds. Sure, Betty ended up with Gilbert, but he did rape her.

I think I made a post about that awhile ago! Yes, he sure did rape her.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about consent.

I find it strangely gratifying that you and I actually agree on a couple of things, like male/female double standards and this whole consent/rape thing...

-the artist formerly known as sinker