Interesting SCOTUS decision

[kallend 2,175]

Overthrew a federal ban on gun ownership that had been imposed on a guy convicted of a felony in Japan for firearms possession there.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 4]

Yeah, I saw that too.

So, conviced criminals that are foreign nationals have more rights than US nationals? Crazy!

Next move and you KNOW it's going to happen, somebody is going to suggest that since foreign nationals that are conviced criminals can purchase guns . . . U.S. nationals ought to be able to as well.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sinker 0]

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Overthrew a federal ban on gun ownership that had been imposed on a guy convicted of a felony in Japan for firearms possession there.

I readily admit I don't know a lot about the law in this regard... a question then, if either your or Quade would help me out... does the US regularly recognize or equate (don't know the right word)felonious (sp?) convictions that occurred in other countries w/ what would be felonious in the US?

What I'm thinking of is, in comparing Japan's gun laws w/ ours, if the guy convicted of a felony for firearms possession -in Japan- were caught in the US, would it have been a felony here? Or would it equate w/ midemeanor possession? If that's the case, why should he be barred from gun possession in the US?

The man's criminal history certainly should be relevant here, shouldn't it?

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Kennedy 0]

You have to remember that "first amendment" rights are a felony in some countries.

It makes sense for a sovereign nation to consider the action involved in the crime rather than the criminal defintion a foreign court places on that action.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

Yes, but if I have the story correct, the person in question had been convicted of a felony -weapons- violation.

Your comment about the First Amendment might hold some water if we also had laws prohibiting sales of word processing software to those that plagiarize, but we don't.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 2,175]

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You have to remember that "first amendment" rights are a felony in some countries.

It makes sense for a sovereign nation to consider the action involved in the crime rather than the criminal defintion a foreign court places on that action.

Interesting that you agree with the majority opinion here, and not with the dissenting conservatives.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Thsi would be more interesting if there was any analysis of the Second Amendment here. But this is just another dull decision based on rules of statutory construction.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jdhill 0]

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somebody is going to suggest that since foreign nationals that are conviced criminals can purchase guns

Did you read the case? Small is a US citizen, not a foreign national...

Having said that, there are good points made in both the majority and the decent... but the decent's point on this decision having broader reach than just this case is important... and the fact that the guy was not convicted of peeing in the street, he was convicted of gun smuggling...

the court should have just declined to hear the case and let the lower court's ruling stand.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[rehmwa 2]

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Overthrew a federal ban on gun ownership that had been imposed on a guy convicted of a felony in Japan for firearms possession there.

Yup, it's nuts.

I heard the California is evaluating a law where cops can't chase a criminal in a car chase. Local news

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[justinb138 0]

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I heard the California is evaluating a law where cops can't chase a criminal in a car chase. Local news

I think there are a few departments around here with a "no pursuit" policy too.

[Kennedy 0]

Between liabilty insurance and the amount of collateral damage that results from a chase, it's not completely uncalled for. However, giving criminals notice that "if you run, we won't chase" is asinine. There need to be limits, but an outright ban is not the best idea.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[justinb138 0]

Agreed. I wish they would just shoot them, but I don't think the ACLU would be to happy with that method.

[Kennedy 0]

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Yes, but if I have the story correct, the person in question had been convicted of a felony -weapons- violation.

Your comment about the First Amendment might hold some water if we also had laws prohibiting sales of word processing software to those that plagiarize, but we don't.

OK, maybe the first wasn't the most relevant, just the easiest example. How about the fifth, though?

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Small was arrested at a Japanese airport not in possession of any alleged evidence, held without bail, denied due process, interrogated by police for 25 days straight without a lawyer, prosecution relied on sworn statements with no cross examination or witnesses present, his Japanese lawyer barely spoke English and mainly tried to get him to confess (which he refused to do), he was brought to trial without a jury, his silence to outrageous questioning was held as proof of guilt, more.

Remember, in Japan they have something like 95% of suspects that "offer" an admission of guilt.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050426/us_nm/court_guns_dc_3

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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court ruled on Tuesday that only criminal convictions in the United States and not foreign ones can be used under the federal law that bars a felon from possessing a gun.

The high court's 5-3 ruling was a defeat for the U.S. Justice Department, which had argued that the law included convictions in courts outside of the United States.

Under the law, no one "who has been convicted in any court" of a crime punishable by a year or more in prison can legally own a firearm. At issue was whether that also meant convictions in foreign courts.

Justice Stephen Breyer said for the majority that the phrase "convicted in any court" encompassed only domestic convictions. He said it was appropriate to assume that Congress had domestic concerns in mind in approving the legislation.

Breyer said foreign convictions may include convictions for conduct that domestic laws permit or punish far less severely. They also may involve convictions from a legal system inconsistent with the U.S. understanding of fairness, he said.

The case concerned an appeal by Gary Small, who had been convicted in Japan in 1994 for violating that nation's customs and firearms possession laws.

Small bought a handgun from a Pennsylvania gun store in 1998. In filling out the form, he answered "no" when asked if he ever had been convicted of a crime for which he could have been imprisoned for more than a year.

Small was charged in a four-count indictment with making a false statement intended to deceive a firearm dealer and with unlawful possession of pistols and ammunition.

Small sought to have the indictment dismissed on the grounds the law only covered domestic convictions and that his Japanese convictions could not be considered because they had been obtained through fundamentally unfair procedures.

A U.S. appeals court rejected his arguments and ruled that that the law included foreign convictions. The Supreme Court reversed that ruling.

Breyer said there have been fewer than a dozen instances since 1968 in which foreign convictions have been used to prosecute a felon for possessing a gun.

He said Congress remained free to revise the law in the future if it wanted to include foreign convictions.

Justices Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy dissented.

"The majority's interpretation permits those convicted overseas of murder, rape, assault, kidnapping, terrorism and other dangerous crimes to possess firearms freely in the United States," wrote Thomas.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[lawrocket 3]

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Breyer said there have been fewer than a dozen instances since 1968 in which foreign convictions have been used to prosecute a felon for possessing a gun.

He said Congress remained free to revise the law in the future if it wanted to include foreign convictions.

Yeah, Congress is in the business of making laws less restrictive.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jdhill 0]

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prosecution relied on sworn statements with no cross examination or witnesses present

There was also the physical evidence... 2 rifles and 8 handguns, along with some ammo, hidden inside a water heater he had shipped as a "gift" for someone... this guy is not a poster child for law abiding gun owners, and the case is a poor one for the court to set precedent with, but that is what they did.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Kennedy 0]

Let me enlighten you as to a common practice of smugglers, particularly in the far east (docks and to a lesser extent airports).

Very often, workers will make small "additions" to bulk shipments and have their counterparts pick them up before delivery. It is entirely possible that people are unaware that they are being used to facilitate smuggling.

One reason why a fair trial is so important, wouldn't you say?

Wouldn't you be pissed if you were punished (damned severely, too) because someone put two kilos of coke in your rig when you flew to Thailand?
(feel free to substitute another country with life sentences or the death penalty for drug smuggling)


It also could be that the guy is guilty of shipping guns to Okinowa. Do you want a citizen's rights denied based on foreign courts' actions? Remember things that we consider petty here can get you beaten, executed, or tossed into a pit for eternity in other countries. On a less colorful note, the idea of a fair trial is not exactly universal, either.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[skydyvr 0]

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Overthrew a federal ban on gun ownership that had been imposed on a guy convicted of a felony in Japan for firearms possession there.

Future appointments to the SCROTUS will make a vas deferens in the direction our nation takes.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Kennedy 0]

If you read the decision, they did not "overthrow" a federal ban, they merely decided it did not apply to the man in question.

Also, appointments to the Supreme Court are always important to the future. Imagine how different it would be if people who believed the constitution to be a restraing document, rather than a starting point, were given the black robes.

Or you can hope for judges who believe however you do and be happy when they make their decision and then use te law to rationalize it. Just realize that if you get judges who decide based on their ideals, rather than the law, you may get justices who don't share your ideals.

yeah, I saw the humor, I just didn't think it was that funny

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mr2mk1g 10]

that definitely needs a "BOOM BOOM".