Political Junkets

[JohnRich 4]

The Democrats are currently attacking Tom Delay because of his acceptance of all-expense paid trips paid for by private organizations. They make these criticisms, even though this practice is perfectly legal according to Congressional rules. Of course, the only reason they're making a big deal out of this is for political purposes, making Delay out to be a Republican boogy-man, because he happens to be the head of the party.

But look at the details of this practice - here is the overview:
Polictical Money Line

Members of Congress have received over $16 million during the last five years traveling around the world at the expense of private organizations. This includes 605 Members of Congress who made 5,410 trips. Democrat Members took 3,025 trips, Republican Members took 2,375 trips.

Here is the list of Congressmen who have taken such trips, in descending order by the amount of money accepted. Tom Delay is only 28th on this list!
Most Money

And here is the list of Congressmen in descending order by number of trips. Tom Delay is 115th on this list.
Most Trips

If this doesn't prove to you that the furor over Tom Delay's trips is nothing but political demagoguery, then nothing will...

[justinb138 0]

Forget the paid trips, the jackass openly threatened federal judges for not acting on something they shouldn't have been involved in at all.

That action alone is reason enough for me to believe he shouldn't be there still.

[ColdDuck 0]

I wouldn't read to much into these lists. It is very common for groups to invite members of Congress on "fact finding trips" When you consider the size and workload of those who serve in Congress, lobby groups fill the information void. Especially for those members who serve on foreign relations committees and the various subcommittees.

"Insurance should called In case shit happens, if shit don't happen shouldn't I get my money back?"

[kallend 2,175]

Sorry, I missed the gun connection...

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Forget the paid trips, the jackass openly threatened federal judges for not acting on something they shouldn't have been involved in at all.

That action alone is reason enough for me to believe he shouldn't be there still.

As far as any "threats" made go, you had better take a look at the complete speech that spawned this accusation. The media took a single sentence out of context and ran with it.

As for what the Senate should or should not have been involved in? That is your opinion.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[chuckbrown 0]

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If this doesn't prove to you that the furor over Tom Delay's trips is nothing but political demagoguery, then nothing will...

I don't know about that. The Wall Street Journal did a pretty good hatchet job on him in today's paper showing that his trips on average are 60% more expensive that other members' trips. Hardly a liberal rag.

The fact is that DeLay is the one in the spotlight, and trying to say everyone does it, isn't that great of a defense to the middle of the roaders (those outside the D and R bases). He's much better off coming clean and saying mistakes were made and he won't make them again. The fact is that he's been slammed 3 times by a bipartisan ethics committee. The vast left wing conspiracy defense won't work & it'll be interesting to see if he survives his congressional seat.

Edited to add: According to the USA Today, DeLay has been admonished by the ethics committe 5 times since 1997.

[justinb138 0]

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As far as any "threats" made go, you had better take a look at the complete speech that spawned this accusation. The media took a single sentence out of context and ran with it.

I did read the transcript of the speech. IIRC, a recent poll showed his approval rating was lower than 50%. It appears that a majority of the people in his district don't think he should be there either.

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As for what the Senate should or should not have been involved in? That is your opinion.

It's the opinion of most of the American people. There was no reason that congress should have been involved. If you think there is one, please let me know what it is.

[Guest]

I think it is unethical for the political leadership to accept such favors, because that is what they are. In my opinion it is a conflict of interest; or even if it is lawful, it serves to create the appears of conflict of interest, which in turn undermines what little faith people have in the political leadership.

That being said, I thought a "junket" was defined as something like a "fact-finding mission to Tahiti" at taxpayer expense.

It all just goes to show how corrupt and out of touch they all are up there.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[rushmc 23]

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As far as any "threats" made go, you had better take a look at the complete speech that spawned this accusation. The media took a single sentence out of context and ran with it.

I did read the transcript of the speech. IIRC, a recent poll showed his approval rating was lower than 50%. It appears that a majority of the people in his district don't think he should be there either.

When did this move to a poll? In any case you did not respond to my point so I will assume you can't refute it.
Now, As far as a poll goes, since you want to go there, read the questions in the poll (if you can find it. I can not find now as it has been removed). Beside the leading, agenda ridden questions being part of that issue, the media runs with anything against DeLay and that can not be refuted as Pelosi and Reid are in alot deeper than DeLay and that is not making ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, CNN et al, oh except for the right leaning Bush news network we call FOX

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As for what the Senate should or should not have been involved in? That is your opinion.

It's the opinion of most of the American people. There was no reason that congress should have been involved. If you think there is one, please let me know what it is.

[chuckbrown 0]

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Beside the leading, agenda ridden questions being part of that issue, the media runs with anything against DeLay and that can not be refuted as Pelosi and Reid are in alot deeper than DeLay and that is not making ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, CNN et al, oh except for the right leaning Bush news network we call FOX

The last I heard neither Pelosi nor Reid were subject to an ethics committee investigation, while one's just waiting to start on DeLay. The media doesn't pick who the ethics committee investigates.

Edited for gramer.

[rushmc 23]

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Beside the leading, agenda ridden questions being part of that issue, the media runs with anything against DeLay and that can not be refuted as Pelosi and Reid are in alot deeper than DeLay and that is not making ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, CNN et al, oh except for the right leaning Bush news network we call FOX

The last I heard neither Pelosi nor Reid were subject to an ethics committee investigation, while one's just waiting to start on DeLay. The media doesn't pick who the ethics committee investigates.

Edited for gramer.

Check again, the delays in the ethics committee are helping Dirty Harry more than DeLay. DeLay wants to get it over with. Reid doesn't want it to start.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[chuckbrown 0]

I don't think that's because of Reid's ethics problems, but if it is I'll gladly stand corrected.

They're all pigs at the trough. Sorry, I didn't mean to insult pigs.

[rushmc 23]

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I don't think that's because of Reid's ethics problems, but if it is I'll gladly stand corrected.

They're all pigs at the trough. Sorry, I didn't mean to insult pigs.

Ya, don't insult the pigs!!!
Anyway, I miss spoke. The ethics case is against McDermot (sp)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,131]

>As far as any "threats" made go, you had better take a look at the
>complete speech that spawned this accusation.

"Mrs. Schiavo’s death is a moral poverty and a legal tragedy. This loss happened because our legal system did not protect the people who need protection most, and that will change. The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior, but not today. Today we grieve, we pray, and we hope to God this fate never befalls another. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Schindlers and with Terri Schiavo’s friends in this time of deep sorrow."

The context doesn't change anything. He was wishing harm upon US judges. An arab who was detained by the TSA who made the same statement would now be in jail for threatening a US judge, which is illegal.

>As for what the Senate should or should not have been involved in?

Didn't you get the memo? The Schiavo case wasn't about what the Senate's powers should be, it was primarily an political opportunity for Republicans to score some points with the fundamentalists. Per a republican memo, it was "a great political issue."

[justinb138 0]

Thanks for saving me the typing Bill.

[rushmc 23]

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>As far as any "threats" made go, you had better take a look at the
>complete speech that spawned this accusation.

"Mrs. Schiavo’s death is a moral poverty and a legal tragedy. This loss happened because our legal system did not protect the people who need protection most, and that will change. The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior, but not today. Today we grieve, we pray, and we hope to God this fate never befalls another. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Schindlers and with Terri Schiavo’s friends in this time of deep sorrow."

The context doesn't change anything. He was wishing harm upon US judges. An arab who was detained by the TSA who made the same statement would now be in jail for threatening a US judge, which is illegal.

>As for what the Senate should or should not have been involved in?

Didn't you get the memo? The Schiavo case wasn't about what the Senate's powers should be, it was primarily an political opportunity for Republicans to score some points with the fundamentalists. Per a republican memo, it was "a great political issue."

Sorry Bill, your bull shit statement is your opinion only.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[justinb138 0]

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Sorry Bill, your bull shit statement is your opinion only.......

I don't care how you look at the speech, it's a damn threat.

And I wouldn't say that it's only his opinion (it's mine as well), but I'm sure that someone could start a Poll if you like.

[billvon 3,131]

>Sorry Bill, your bull shit statement is your opinion only......

Actually, no. The thing on the Schiavo case was contained in a GOP memo. At first the GOP denied writing it, then a republican senator admitted that it came from his office. And the first part (the whole DeLay statement) you can verify via Google.

[rushmc 23]

A close look at this whole issue is about one thing. Judges! Judges are legislating from the bench. Roe v Wade is the biggest (and I am not wanting to argue abortion here) This is a case where judges added a right to the constitution. The Mass. courts ordering the legislature to make a law regarding gay unions (again, I do not want to argue the merits of the law)

My point is the left does not want judges that apply and interpret law! The left wants activists because they can not get the laws they want because they are in the minority!!!

So, DeLay's comments are right on target. Everyone is responsible for their actions! The "law" and the constitution define who makes laws. In the cases where judges make law they should be held up to scruitny and made accountable for their actions.

And making someone accountable is the same as the threat of harm

kinda week.......don't ya think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,131]

>This is a case where judges added a right to the constitution.

The government does NOT add rights. You were born with all the rights you ever had; government only takes them away. A good government takes away as few as possible.

> The Mass. courts ordering the legislature to make a law regarding gay
> unions (again, I do not want to argue the merits of the law)

The supreme court once ordered that blacks be allowed to marry whites, that it was unconstitutional to ban such marriages. Do you think that's another example of those damn activist judges?

>So, DeLay's comments are right on target. Everyone is responsible for
>their actions!

So if someone said to your wife/girlfriend "someday you'll pay for this" you would not take it as a threat? After all, they might just be talking about them getting a bill.

DeLay is a petty thug whose past is catching up with him. The GOP has kept him around for a long time because he is a master fundraiser, but even now most republicans are becoming embarassed to be associated with him.

[rehmwa 2]

I'm not familiar with any of this nor do I care, but where exactly is the threat in that statement?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[justinb138 0]

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I'm not familiar with any of this nor do I care, but where exactly is the threat in that statement?

From DeLay's speech:

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The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior

[rehmwa 2]

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The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior

riiiight, so now impotent posturing and political speech making is a damn threat

I get it.

So next time a friends looks ahead in traffic and says "that guy BETTER not cut me off", I'll be sure to take control of the vehicle and take him directly to counseling.

Edit: We get stuff that strong in almost every thread in Bonfire and nearly every post in SC

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

Are you saying that the Supreme Court overturning an un constitutional law (forbidding mixed marriages) is activism?
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So if someone said to your wife/girlfriend "someday you'll pay for this" you would not take it as a threat? After all, they might just be talking about them getting a bill.

[justinb138 0]

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The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior

riiiight, so now impotent posturing and political speech making is a damn threat

I get it.

So next time a friends looks ahead in traffic and says "that guy BETTER not cut me off", I'll be sure to take control of the vehicle and take him directly to counseling.

Edit: We get stuff that strong in almost every thread in Bonfire and nearly every post in SC

Next time you get pulled over for a traffic violation, make a statement similar to DeLay's after the cop is done writing the ticket, and see if he doesn't yank your ass out of that car.