AggieDave 6 #201 April 28, 2005 QuoteYeah, obviously both Billvon and AggieDave are too stupid to keep away from high crime areas. Then again, maybe that whole idea about people being able to use their brains to travel smartly to avoid crime is just bunk, because the truth is, crime can happen anywhere, at any time, to anyone. The voice of reason comes from John. Good observation.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #202 April 28, 2005 QuoteThe two with the holsters on the hip I would immediately assume were LEOs (especially if they were in Chicago). Quote A LEO means what? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #203 April 28, 2005 LEO: Law Enforcement Officer. Some sort of cop. Could have been plain clothes, could have been federal, could have been an off-duty cop in street clothes.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #204 April 28, 2005 OK. Thx. Understood. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #205 April 28, 2005 >However, the preceding anti-gun argument is quite common, even right here in this forum . . . OK. Can you quote even one anti-gun person who said "victims deserved what they got?" Not something that you thought could be interpreted to mean that - that statement. >Locking doors and windows, and adding alarm systems, is not a perfect >guarantee against a home invasion. Of course. And a gun is a much worse guarantee, since even most pro-gun typed tout the benefits of its usage AFTER the intrusion has occurred. Hence, the person who would rather avoid the issue to begin with is well-advised to concentrate on security rather than firepower, although he can certainly do both if he so chooses. Let's hope there are not people out there foolish enough to think that owning a gun negates the need for the more effective security measures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #206 April 28, 2005 Quote>However, the preceding anti-gun argument is quite common, even right here in this forum . . . OK. Can you quote even one anti-gun person who said "victims deserved what they got?" Not something that you thought could be interpreted to mean that - that statement. >Locking doors and windows, and adding alarm systems, is not a perfect >guarantee against a home invasion. Of course. And a gun is a much worse guarantee, since even most pro-gun typed tout the benefits of its usage AFTER the intrusion has occurred. Hence, the person who would rather avoid the issue to begin with is well-advised to concentrate on security rather than firepower, although he can certainly do both if he so chooses. Let's hope there are not people out there foolish enough to think that owning a gun negates the need for the more effective security measures. Taking it one step further, you could also install iron bars on your windows and install a steel security door. Some people prefer not to turn their home into a prison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #207 April 28, 2005 >Taking it one step further, you could also install iron bars on your >windows and install a steel security door. Some people prefer not to >turn their home into a prison. And others prefer not to turn their home into a shooting gallery. Some might choose to live in an area where measures such as bars on the windows are unneccesary. Yet others might choose unbreakable windows and steel doors that look like a regular wood door. Up to them. One does not need to make one's home look like a prison (_or_ an armory) to achieve any desired level of security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #208 April 28, 2005 Quoteaw c'mon guys, can't we all just hug? just keep your hands up off my waist, that's where my 45 is... I'd be happy to just "live and let live". I have no problem with people who choose not to own guns. The problem is, that many of those people have a problem with those that choose differently - they treat all gun owners as if they are criminals. If they would just leave the law-abiding gun owners alone, and concentrate on the real criminals, we could all get along just fine. The ball is in their court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #209 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote29 millions? About which and how many cities are you talking? That's the population of Chicago and New York, which you claim are awash in civilian gun carry, because you saw three people doing it. Again, just to clarify: We are talking about the total population of Chicago and NYC?? It's not really important, just to know. Correct. What was so confusing about the way I said it last time? Perhaps you are incredulous because those two U.S. cities alone are equal to about one-third of the entire population of your Germany. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #210 April 28, 2005 QuoteSome might choose to live in an area where measures such as bars on the windows are unneccesary. Yet others might choose unbreakable windows and steel doors that look like a regular wood door. Up to them. One does not need to make one's home look like a prison (_or_ an armory) to achieve any desired level of security. Bill, I know you know that stating you can create a normal looking but intruder proof house is like saying you can create a reserve that will never malfunction. Sure you can get close and you can get a system that works *most* of the time, but 100% is nearly impossible to achieve. Eitherway my home defense shotgun is a good weapon. Reliable and ready to go. It cost me $200 and I know that if I'm not home Morgan has a reliable and proven way to defend herself. How much do all of those mods cost? Now how do you convience a landlord to let you install them in his rental property?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #211 April 29, 2005 >Sure you can get close and you can get a system that works *most* of >the time, but 100% is nearly impossible to achieve. Of course. And your shotgun is not a bad way to go, but it too can malfunction, kill the user, and/or be used against the owner. Both are tradeoffs. >Eitherway my home defense shotgun is a good weapon. Reliable and >ready to go. It cost me $200 and I know that if I'm not home Morgan > has a reliable and proven way to defend herself. No problem there. You've chosen a weapon over adding additional physical security, and that's fine for your situation. But consider what you would do if someone labeled your house a "crime invitation area" and challenged you to put a sign in your window that said "No security system or vandal-proof locks installed." You might consider them something of a nut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #212 April 29, 2005 Quote>Taking it one step further, you could also install iron bars on your >windows and install a steel security door. Some people prefer not to >turn their home into a prison. And others prefer not to turn their home into a shooting gallery. Some might choose to live in an area where measures such as bars on the windows are unneccesary. Yet others might choose unbreakable windows and steel doors that look like a regular wood door. Up to them. One does not need to make one's home look like a prison (_or_ an armory) to achieve any desired level of security. Unbreakable windows and doors are very costly. People who live in a neighborhood where they are forced to take drastic security measures may not be able to afford such items. A handgun provides a pretty cheap alternative. Hey, I know.. lets create a govt. program to buy unbreakable doors and windows for those who can't afford them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #213 April 29, 2005 QuoteNo problem there. You've chosen a weapon over adding additional physical security, and that's fine for your situation. But consider what you would do if someone labeled your house a "crime invitation area" and challenged you to put a sign in your window that said "No security system or vandal-proof locks installed." You might consider them something of a nut. Or an NRA member sticker? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #214 April 29, 2005 >Unbreakable windows and doors are very costly. I got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? >Hey, I know.. lets create a govt. program to buy unbreakable doors >and windows for those who can't afford them. I have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #215 April 29, 2005 Quote I got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Probably about $350, after taxes and nuisance fees in California. But unlike the door, you can have fun with the shotgun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #216 April 29, 2005 Quote>Unbreakable windows and doors are very costly. I got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Lets see.. a Home Depot 24 ga. steel door in a new construction frame (unpainted w/o hardware) $350. installation $359. New vinyl window $175. Laminated Glass $150 Installation $178 ------- $503 Total x 10 windows ------------ $5003 +$ 709 Door ----------- $5712 Total w/o tax >Hey, I know.. lets create a govt. program to buy unbreakable doors >and windows for those who can't afford them. I have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. But..but.. what about the poor person who can't afford to spend $5712.00 to secure their home? Have you no compassion for their situation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vallerina 2 #217 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote [using them as a way to defend your home is crap, imho] would be wiser for the other side.) I dunno, I think a shotgun is a pretty good home defense weapon. My dad has always had a shotgun in his room (well, at least for as long as I can remember.) When someone tried to break in, he didn't even think of using it. Calling 911 seemed to make more sense to him I guess. And, JOHNRICH!!! For the last time...I am NOT trying to take guns away from people. SHEESH!!! This is why it's so frustrating to debate anything here. I am NOT anti-gun. My dad has a few. My brother has a few. My brother has even taken me to a shooting range a few times in the past few years. I understand the sport of it. I do see problems with them, too, however. That is what can almost never be discussed!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #218 April 29, 2005 QuoteI got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better than not, but hardly "unbreakable." The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. And you can get a nice pump gun for under two hundred dollars. QuoteI have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. Hell, that sounds good to me. Now if only you could get the anti-gunners to go along with that, you'll never have to read another gun debate thread.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #219 April 29, 2005 You can see the prolem with them, I just wish you could see the benefits. (they're much bigger than cheap fun plinking on weekends) It is the other half of a cost-benefit analysis. You have to consider the benefits.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #220 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. Hell, that sounds good to me. Now if only you could get the anti-gunners to go along with that, you'll never have to read another gun debate thread. As far as I can tell, the ban vote is still coming up for San Francisco since the legality can't be challenged until after the fact. But you couldn't tell by looking at the web page for the Supervisor that put it forth. It was a hit n run action, apparently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #221 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better than not, but hardly "unbreakable." The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. And you can get a nice pump gun for under two hundred dollars. Which may be all people in those neighborhoods can afford. You know, those neighborhoods smart guys like him avoid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #222 April 29, 2005 QuoteAs far as I can tell, the ban vote is still coming up for San Francisco since the legality can't be challenged until after the fact. But you couldn't tell by looking at the web page for the Supervisor that put it forth. It was a hit n run action, apparently. Wouldn't "driveby" be a more appropriate analogy? But don't get me started about the idiocy in California politics. Have you heard about the new state level ammunition bill, SB 357? http://cbs5.com/localwire/localfsnews/bcn/2005/04/27/n/HeadlineNews/GUN-BILL/resources_bcn_html http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=46503 It'd serve them right to pass it and have all ammunition manufacturers pull out of California and refuse to sell to anyone there, including government and law enforcement. (most manufacturers wouldn't have a choice either way; there's no way they could afford that)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #223 April 29, 2005 >Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better > than not, but hardly "unbreakable." Of course. But you're not going to get through it with anything other than a circular saw with an abrasive blade, a cutting torch, or an SUV and a long piece of chain. All of which would tend to alarm the neighbors. >The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. Ah, you're thinking this is a storm door. This is a steel door made of welded 1" sections of steel extrusions with a deadbolt. Think jail door prettied up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #224 April 29, 2005 QuoteThis is a steel door made of welded 1" sections of steel extrusions with a deadbolt. Think jail door prettied up. You got jipped then if you paid $100 for that door. 1" tube steel is very cheap. Sort of reminds me of really cool head board and foot board (for beds, obviously) I saw in a high end store in Alamo Heights. They wanted just under $1000 for it, all really prettied up 1" 0.95 square tube little more then just tac welded together. It made me wonder so I went home and measured the bed, drew out the design and how much metal I would need. Basically it was $30 worth of tube steel and cutting/preping/welding up simple 90deg pieces like that doesn't take any time at all. Sometimes I'm amazed at what people will pay for cheap metal welded together to make a simple design.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #225 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuote But unlike the door, you can have fun with the shotgun. You need to work on your imagination. 101 ways to have fun with a door...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 9 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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AggieDave 6 #203 April 28, 2005 LEO: Law Enforcement Officer. Some sort of cop. Could have been plain clothes, could have been federal, could have been an off-duty cop in street clothes.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #204 April 28, 2005 OK. Thx. Understood. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #205 April 28, 2005 >However, the preceding anti-gun argument is quite common, even right here in this forum . . . OK. Can you quote even one anti-gun person who said "victims deserved what they got?" Not something that you thought could be interpreted to mean that - that statement. >Locking doors and windows, and adding alarm systems, is not a perfect >guarantee against a home invasion. Of course. And a gun is a much worse guarantee, since even most pro-gun typed tout the benefits of its usage AFTER the intrusion has occurred. Hence, the person who would rather avoid the issue to begin with is well-advised to concentrate on security rather than firepower, although he can certainly do both if he so chooses. Let's hope there are not people out there foolish enough to think that owning a gun negates the need for the more effective security measures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #206 April 28, 2005 Quote>However, the preceding anti-gun argument is quite common, even right here in this forum . . . OK. Can you quote even one anti-gun person who said "victims deserved what they got?" Not something that you thought could be interpreted to mean that - that statement. >Locking doors and windows, and adding alarm systems, is not a perfect >guarantee against a home invasion. Of course. And a gun is a much worse guarantee, since even most pro-gun typed tout the benefits of its usage AFTER the intrusion has occurred. Hence, the person who would rather avoid the issue to begin with is well-advised to concentrate on security rather than firepower, although he can certainly do both if he so chooses. Let's hope there are not people out there foolish enough to think that owning a gun negates the need for the more effective security measures. Taking it one step further, you could also install iron bars on your windows and install a steel security door. Some people prefer not to turn their home into a prison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #207 April 28, 2005 >Taking it one step further, you could also install iron bars on your >windows and install a steel security door. Some people prefer not to >turn their home into a prison. And others prefer not to turn their home into a shooting gallery. Some might choose to live in an area where measures such as bars on the windows are unneccesary. Yet others might choose unbreakable windows and steel doors that look like a regular wood door. Up to them. One does not need to make one's home look like a prison (_or_ an armory) to achieve any desired level of security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #208 April 28, 2005 Quoteaw c'mon guys, can't we all just hug? just keep your hands up off my waist, that's where my 45 is... I'd be happy to just "live and let live". I have no problem with people who choose not to own guns. The problem is, that many of those people have a problem with those that choose differently - they treat all gun owners as if they are criminals. If they would just leave the law-abiding gun owners alone, and concentrate on the real criminals, we could all get along just fine. The ball is in their court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #209 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote29 millions? About which and how many cities are you talking? That's the population of Chicago and New York, which you claim are awash in civilian gun carry, because you saw three people doing it. Again, just to clarify: We are talking about the total population of Chicago and NYC?? It's not really important, just to know. Correct. What was so confusing about the way I said it last time? Perhaps you are incredulous because those two U.S. cities alone are equal to about one-third of the entire population of your Germany. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #210 April 28, 2005 QuoteSome might choose to live in an area where measures such as bars on the windows are unneccesary. Yet others might choose unbreakable windows and steel doors that look like a regular wood door. Up to them. One does not need to make one's home look like a prison (_or_ an armory) to achieve any desired level of security. Bill, I know you know that stating you can create a normal looking but intruder proof house is like saying you can create a reserve that will never malfunction. Sure you can get close and you can get a system that works *most* of the time, but 100% is nearly impossible to achieve. Eitherway my home defense shotgun is a good weapon. Reliable and ready to go. It cost me $200 and I know that if I'm not home Morgan has a reliable and proven way to defend herself. How much do all of those mods cost? Now how do you convience a landlord to let you install them in his rental property?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #211 April 29, 2005 >Sure you can get close and you can get a system that works *most* of >the time, but 100% is nearly impossible to achieve. Of course. And your shotgun is not a bad way to go, but it too can malfunction, kill the user, and/or be used against the owner. Both are tradeoffs. >Eitherway my home defense shotgun is a good weapon. Reliable and >ready to go. It cost me $200 and I know that if I'm not home Morgan > has a reliable and proven way to defend herself. No problem there. You've chosen a weapon over adding additional physical security, and that's fine for your situation. But consider what you would do if someone labeled your house a "crime invitation area" and challenged you to put a sign in your window that said "No security system or vandal-proof locks installed." You might consider them something of a nut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #212 April 29, 2005 Quote>Taking it one step further, you could also install iron bars on your >windows and install a steel security door. Some people prefer not to >turn their home into a prison. And others prefer not to turn their home into a shooting gallery. Some might choose to live in an area where measures such as bars on the windows are unneccesary. Yet others might choose unbreakable windows and steel doors that look like a regular wood door. Up to them. One does not need to make one's home look like a prison (_or_ an armory) to achieve any desired level of security. Unbreakable windows and doors are very costly. People who live in a neighborhood where they are forced to take drastic security measures may not be able to afford such items. A handgun provides a pretty cheap alternative. Hey, I know.. lets create a govt. program to buy unbreakable doors and windows for those who can't afford them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #213 April 29, 2005 QuoteNo problem there. You've chosen a weapon over adding additional physical security, and that's fine for your situation. But consider what you would do if someone labeled your house a "crime invitation area" and challenged you to put a sign in your window that said "No security system or vandal-proof locks installed." You might consider them something of a nut. Or an NRA member sticker? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #214 April 29, 2005 >Unbreakable windows and doors are very costly. I got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? >Hey, I know.. lets create a govt. program to buy unbreakable doors >and windows for those who can't afford them. I have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #215 April 29, 2005 Quote I got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Probably about $350, after taxes and nuisance fees in California. But unlike the door, you can have fun with the shotgun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #216 April 29, 2005 Quote>Unbreakable windows and doors are very costly. I got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Lets see.. a Home Depot 24 ga. steel door in a new construction frame (unpainted w/o hardware) $350. installation $359. New vinyl window $175. Laminated Glass $150 Installation $178 ------- $503 Total x 10 windows ------------ $5003 +$ 709 Door ----------- $5712 Total w/o tax >Hey, I know.. lets create a govt. program to buy unbreakable doors >and windows for those who can't afford them. I have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. But..but.. what about the poor person who can't afford to spend $5712.00 to secure their home? Have you no compassion for their situation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #217 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote [using them as a way to defend your home is crap, imho] would be wiser for the other side.) I dunno, I think a shotgun is a pretty good home defense weapon. My dad has always had a shotgun in his room (well, at least for as long as I can remember.) When someone tried to break in, he didn't even think of using it. Calling 911 seemed to make more sense to him I guess. And, JOHNRICH!!! For the last time...I am NOT trying to take guns away from people. SHEESH!!! This is why it's so frustrating to debate anything here. I am NOT anti-gun. My dad has a few. My brother has a few. My brother has even taken me to a shooting range a few times in the past few years. I understand the sport of it. I do see problems with them, too, however. That is what can almost never be discussed!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #218 April 29, 2005 QuoteI got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better than not, but hardly "unbreakable." The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. And you can get a nice pump gun for under two hundred dollars. QuoteI have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. Hell, that sounds good to me. Now if only you could get the anti-gunners to go along with that, you'll never have to read another gun debate thread.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #219 April 29, 2005 You can see the prolem with them, I just wish you could see the benefits. (they're much bigger than cheap fun plinking on weekends) It is the other half of a cost-benefit analysis. You have to consider the benefits.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #220 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. Hell, that sounds good to me. Now if only you could get the anti-gunners to go along with that, you'll never have to read another gun debate thread. As far as I can tell, the ban vote is still coming up for San Francisco since the legality can't be challenged until after the fact. But you couldn't tell by looking at the web page for the Supervisor that put it forth. It was a hit n run action, apparently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #221 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better than not, but hardly "unbreakable." The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. And you can get a nice pump gun for under two hundred dollars. Which may be all people in those neighborhoods can afford. You know, those neighborhoods smart guys like him avoid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #222 April 29, 2005 QuoteAs far as I can tell, the ban vote is still coming up for San Francisco since the legality can't be challenged until after the fact. But you couldn't tell by looking at the web page for the Supervisor that put it forth. It was a hit n run action, apparently. Wouldn't "driveby" be a more appropriate analogy? But don't get me started about the idiocy in California politics. Have you heard about the new state level ammunition bill, SB 357? http://cbs5.com/localwire/localfsnews/bcn/2005/04/27/n/HeadlineNews/GUN-BILL/resources_bcn_html http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=46503 It'd serve them right to pass it and have all ammunition manufacturers pull out of California and refuse to sell to anyone there, including government and law enforcement. (most manufacturers wouldn't have a choice either way; there's no way they could afford that)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #223 April 29, 2005 >Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better > than not, but hardly "unbreakable." Of course. But you're not going to get through it with anything other than a circular saw with an abrasive blade, a cutting torch, or an SUV and a long piece of chain. All of which would tend to alarm the neighbors. >The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. Ah, you're thinking this is a storm door. This is a steel door made of welded 1" sections of steel extrusions with a deadbolt. Think jail door prettied up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #224 April 29, 2005 QuoteThis is a steel door made of welded 1" sections of steel extrusions with a deadbolt. Think jail door prettied up. You got jipped then if you paid $100 for that door. 1" tube steel is very cheap. Sort of reminds me of really cool head board and foot board (for beds, obviously) I saw in a high end store in Alamo Heights. They wanted just under $1000 for it, all really prettied up 1" 0.95 square tube little more then just tac welded together. It made me wonder so I went home and measured the bed, drew out the design and how much metal I would need. Basically it was $30 worth of tube steel and cutting/preping/welding up simple 90deg pieces like that doesn't take any time at all. Sometimes I'm amazed at what people will pay for cheap metal welded together to make a simple design.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #225 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuote But unlike the door, you can have fun with the shotgun. You need to work on your imagination. 101 ways to have fun with a door...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 9 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Kennedy 0 #218 April 29, 2005 QuoteI got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better than not, but hardly "unbreakable." The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. And you can get a nice pump gun for under two hundred dollars. QuoteI have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. Hell, that sounds good to me. Now if only you could get the anti-gunners to go along with that, you'll never have to read another gun debate thread.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #219 April 29, 2005 You can see the prolem with them, I just wish you could see the benefits. (they're much bigger than cheap fun plinking on weekends) It is the other half of a cost-benefit analysis. You have to consider the benefits.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #220 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI have a better idea. How about you decide what you want to buy, make your own money to buy it and then buy it? I know, it's crazy to let people make their own decisions, but let's try it and see. Hell, that sounds good to me. Now if only you could get the anti-gunners to go along with that, you'll never have to read another gun debate thread. As far as I can tell, the ban vote is still coming up for San Francisco since the legality can't be challenged until after the fact. But you couldn't tell by looking at the web page for the Supervisor that put it forth. It was a hit n run action, apparently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #221 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI got a steel lattice outer door (with a screen built in) for $99. How much does your basic shotgun cost? Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better than not, but hardly "unbreakable." The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. And you can get a nice pump gun for under two hundred dollars. Which may be all people in those neighborhoods can afford. You know, those neighborhoods smart guys like him avoid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #222 April 29, 2005 QuoteAs far as I can tell, the ban vote is still coming up for San Francisco since the legality can't be challenged until after the fact. But you couldn't tell by looking at the web page for the Supervisor that put it forth. It was a hit n run action, apparently. Wouldn't "driveby" be a more appropriate analogy? But don't get me started about the idiocy in California politics. Have you heard about the new state level ammunition bill, SB 357? http://cbs5.com/localwire/localfsnews/bcn/2005/04/27/n/HeadlineNews/GUN-BILL/resources_bcn_html http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=46503 It'd serve them right to pass it and have all ammunition manufacturers pull out of California and refuse to sell to anyone there, including government and law enforcement. (most manufacturers wouldn't have a choice either way; there's no way they could afford that)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #223 April 29, 2005 >Bill, a "steel lattice outer door" isn't that big an obstacle. It's better > than not, but hardly "unbreakable." Of course. But you're not going to get through it with anything other than a circular saw with an abrasive blade, a cutting torch, or an SUV and a long piece of chain. All of which would tend to alarm the neighbors. >The real obstacle is the solid door behind your storm door. Ah, you're thinking this is a storm door. This is a steel door made of welded 1" sections of steel extrusions with a deadbolt. Think jail door prettied up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #224 April 29, 2005 QuoteThis is a steel door made of welded 1" sections of steel extrusions with a deadbolt. Think jail door prettied up. You got jipped then if you paid $100 for that door. 1" tube steel is very cheap. Sort of reminds me of really cool head board and foot board (for beds, obviously) I saw in a high end store in Alamo Heights. They wanted just under $1000 for it, all really prettied up 1" 0.95 square tube little more then just tac welded together. It made me wonder so I went home and measured the bed, drew out the design and how much metal I would need. Basically it was $30 worth of tube steel and cutting/preping/welding up simple 90deg pieces like that doesn't take any time at all. Sometimes I'm amazed at what people will pay for cheap metal welded together to make a simple design.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #225 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuote But unlike the door, you can have fun with the shotgun. You need to work on your imagination. 101 ways to have fun with a door...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 9 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
