wmw999 2,589 #151 April 28, 2005 QuoteBut them dying by a knife, or club is OK? I think you're quibbling. It's not OK for a kid to die drowning, or being eaten by a shark, or being run over. By and large, it's not OK for a kid to die. It's the awfullest thing imaginable for their parent. That said, unsecured guns are, in fact, used by children to play and sometimes they kill each other. It happens more often than kids playing cowboys and indians (or whatever) with knives or baseball bats. Yes, the problem is with the gun being unsecured (or, I guess, with lack of training of your 4-year-old ). But the penalty is the same, and it's more common than the same penalty with a knife that's left laying around. Just as it's possible for a skydiver with 300 jumps to kill themselves with a 280 at .98 wing loading, but it's more likely when they're jumping a 130 with a 1.8 wing loading. People survive that all the time, too. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #152 April 28, 2005 That said, unsecured guns are, in fact, used by children to play and sometimes they kill each other. It happens more often than kids playing cowboys and indians (or whatever) with knives or baseball bats.Quote Just want to clarify w/ you Wendy... was your statement in response to my post? I hope it didn't sound like I advocate "unsecured" guns... if they aren't locked up, they really should be worn on the person or put up out of reach... but even out of reach is easily comprimised. ***Yes, the problem is with the gun being unsecured (or, I guess, with lack of training of your 4-year-old ). who was this comment aimed at? -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #153 April 28, 2005 QuoteBut them dying by a knife, or club is OK? I see no difference in the type of tool used. of course there is little difference in the type of tool used. of course kids dying by knife or club is not ok. don't be silly. but we are TALKING about firearms here. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #154 April 28, 2005 Quotewas your statement in response to my post Nope -- it was in response to Ron's post about baseball bats and knives also being dangerous. If your gun is on your person it's not unsecured. If it's out of reach and you're in the room it's not unsecured. If it's in your purse () and you're in the bathroom taking a bath, well, there are too many news reports that indicate it's unsecured . Even if the kids (too young) have been "made aware." Same as trying to drownproof a 2-year-old. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #155 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuotewas your statement in response to my post Nope -- it was in response to Ron's post about baseball bats and knives also being dangerous. If your gun is on your person it's not unsecured. If it's out of reach and you're in the room it's not unsecured. If it's in your purse () and you're in the bathroom taking a bath, well, there are too many news reports that indicate it's unsecured . Even if the kids (too young) have been "made aware." Same as trying to drownproof a 2-year-old. Wendy W. agreed. thanks for clarifying... i'm trying to read this thread while also being on work teleconference... hard to do both -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #156 April 28, 2005 QuoteI think you're quibbling Maybe, but my point is this. Any kid dying is bad...Don't blame the gun (And liberals always seem to want to blame the tool). Its not the tool folks...Its a fault of the parents. A parent leaving a gun out is not different than them leaving a poison out."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #157 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think you're quibbling Maybe, but my point is this. Any kid dying is bad...Don't blame the gun (And liberals always seem to want to blame the tool). Its not the tool folks...Its a fault of the parents. A parent leaving a gun out is not different than them leaving a poison out. agreed 100%. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #158 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuote [using them as a way to defend your home is crap, imho] would be wiser for the other side.) I dunno, I think a shotgun is a pretty good home defense weapon.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #159 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote [using them as a way to defend your home is crap, imho] would be wiser for the other side.) I dunno, I think a shotgun is a pretty good home defense weapon. Indeed it is!! Nothing more frightening than the sound of a 12 gauge being wracked. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #160 April 28, 2005 My father always kept a loaded gun in his nightstand because his job carried a certain degree of personal risk. He told us where it was, showed it to us and told us never to touch it. He explained what could happen if we did. We never touched it because we respected him and feared what would happen to us if he ever found out we touched it. When I grew up, it was common for children to know how to use a firearm. I got my first .22 cal rifle when I was 8 or 9 and I was told never to aim it at anything I wasn't intending on shooting. We did shoot birds, squirrels, etc. but this taught us what would happen if we ever fired it at a person. So the question is this: At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" as I remember. So what has changed in our society? Is it TV, movies, video games, poor parenting, or a combination of all of them? Isn't addressing the gun as the problem only a way to avoid dealing with the real underlying societal problems? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #161 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think you're quibbling Maybe, but my point is this. Any kid dying is bad...Don't blame the gun (And liberals always seem to want to blame the tool). Its not the tool folks...Its a fault of the parents. A parent leaving a gun out is not different than them leaving a poison out. Yep. Unfortunately, our society has come to be one where no one will take responsibility for their own actions. It's alot easier to blame the gun than the parent because "guns are evil". There was a tragic incident a few months a go here in N. Texas where a young child was killed because they were run over by the car that the father was backing out of the garage. I believe that the family is currenty in a lawsuit with the car manufacturer and dealer because a rear-view camera was not standard on the vehicle (it was an option however). The fact that people will go to such extremes to blame other things before accepting responsibility for their own actions sickens me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #162 April 28, 2005 QuoteMy father always kept a loaded gun in his nightstand because his job carried a certain degree of personal risk. He told us where it was, showed it to us and told us never to touch it. He explained what could happen if we did. We never touched it because we respected him and feared what would happen to us if he ever found out we touched it. When I grew up, it was common for children to know how to use a firearm. I got my first .22 cal rifle when I was 8 or 9 and I was told never to aim it at anything I wasn't intending on shooting. We did shoot birds, squirrels, etc. but this taught us what would happen if we ever fired it at a person. So the question is this: At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" as I remember. So what has changed in our society? Is it TV, movies, video games, poor parenting, or a combination of all of them? Isn't addressing the gun as the problem only a way to avoid dealing with the real underlying societal problems? Very good post. I bought my son a bb gun last two xmas's ago. he never gets to shoot it unless I'm supervising. daughter gets in on the action too. She's 8, he's 6. They also have slingshots, same thing... supervised use only. After they are proficient at them and have demonstrated that they are responsible w/ them (i.e. I don't have to remind them of the rules), then they will gradually get to have more freedom. As for why more things like Columbine happen now? Man, I don't know. I'm sure there are many factors, but "bad parenting," I think, is certainly up there near the top. IMHO, I think too many parents are caught up in their own stuff and don't spend enough time w/ the kids, aren't interested in them, whatever. Many parents have to work 2 jobs (well, to sustain the lifestyle they're used to, many times), and kids have a lot of free time after school (if they aren't ditching) during which they can explore and get into things that aren't good for them. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #163 April 28, 2005 QuoteBEFORE anyone flames me, let me catagorically say that ANY kid dying at the hands of a gun is a tragedy. Not to me. Most of them weren't innocent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #164 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteBEFORE anyone flames me, let me catagorically say that ANY kid dying at the hands of a gun is a tragedy. Not to me. Most of them weren't innocent. still a tragedy, but in a little different way... tragic that so many of today's youth get mixed up in gangs, drugs, etc. where guns are prolific. then, to get killed and not have the chance to reform and make something of your life? truly tragic. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #165 April 28, 2005 Quote>"I WILL NOT BE A VICTIM AGAIN!" But there is a very odd tack that gun proponents have taken about the whole 'victim' thing. Many of them feel that guns equal power. If you go to a place where guns are not allowed, you become a 'disarmed victim.' If you carry a gun, you will never be a victim again. Guns represent options, which is power. Doesn't guarantee a blissful uneventful life, but increases the odds that you will set the conditions for the outcome, rather than praying the bad guy doesn't already have 2 strikes on his record. Dress for success is the motto in many sports, including our's. Should routine life be any different? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #166 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteGee, there are only two to three millions crimes stopped because of guns every year. Mmmm hmm....I don't fully buy that, and let's not get into how many murders there are every year. So what number short of 2 million is high enough to be meaningful, in your opinion? The lowball numbers are 80-100k, which is still well in excess of the ~10k murders. An even higher ratio if you remove the cases of felons killing each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #167 April 28, 2005 >At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with > them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but >certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" >as I remember. So what has changed in our society? That's an excellent question, and I think at the root of many of the gun-control debates going on. Because the underlying issue (in my opinion) is not that guns are bad, but that they make it very easy for evil people to kill a lot of people at once. The gun-control argument often devolves to "if you only give people children's toys they can't kill as many people" which may be true, but I think the more important issue is why we have people who _want_ to kill other people. Moore did a whole movie about that very question, but the movie has become such a political weapon (used by both sides) that few people see it as anything other than an anti-gun movie or a target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #168 April 28, 2005 QuoteI've only had to defend myself once so far, from a mugging. Before I knew what was happening, the guy had his arm around my throat and had his hands in my back pocket (fortunately my wallet was in my front.) I managed to throw him. He got up and ran away. Had I been carrying a gun, the outcome could have been the same or worse; the situation might have ended up with either one of us dead. Of course, I didn't have a gun, so I was no doubt a victim there. Well Bill, sounds like you need to work on your situational awareness, BUT I'm not going to be a hypocrite since I wasn't there I don't know what really happened or the events leading up to it. As for the gun=safety cliche, its getting old and I think you know better. Guys like me kill that stereotype. I'm well trained and profecient in using my sidearm to defend myself as a last resort. I'm also an avid martial artist with a focus on real world defense. Nevermind that I've spent a good deal of time learning and becoming good at using my combat folder (Spyderco Endura) for defense as well. Then we can move along to improvised weapons. I've studied with the sort staff (walking stick, basically). Why have I done all of that and more I didn't list? Well primarily its a hell of a lot of fun. I believe you've mentioned before that you've studied martial arts, I'm sure you'd agree that its a fun thing to be involved in (nevermind its a good workout), but all of that training can (and has in my life) been useful. Sometime Bill, I've got to tell you the story about the a guy in this bluecollar/biker bar I used to hang out at in N. Texas. He really tried hard to start a fight with me, well the bouncer was laughing at him as I ended the situation and walked him out the door. I didn't even have to hit him, some really fast joint lock work and he didn't know WTF had happened.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #169 April 28, 2005 tactical folders kick ass... mines an Emerson Tanto... AggieDave, I'm liking you more and more each day! (not in THAT way though) another good improvised weapon at night is a very bright flashlight... like a surefire w/ a serated bevel... blind the f*cker then punch him w/ said light. works mah-vlously. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #170 April 28, 2005 Quote tactical folders kick ass... mines an Emerson Tanto... I want an Emerson CQC 7-wave really badly. I just can't afford it or justify it yet. I am getting one as a present to myself if I get hired by one of the local PDs though.Quote. like a surefire w/ a serated bevel... Oh, like this one? *AggieDave holds up his Surefire "Executive Defender, E2D to the monitor for viewing*--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #171 April 28, 2005 *AggieDave holds up his Surefire "Executive Defender, E2D to the monitor for viewing* *** that's it exactly! you rock man. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #172 April 28, 2005 Yeah, that is an incredible device to own, very useful. Nevermind that you can dazzle a would be attacker and give them temporary nightblindness, it will do considerable "less lethal" damage when used as a defensive weapon. I'm not sure what technique you use when holding a light and a handgun for firing, but I do "crossed arms" method with the light coming out the bottom of my left hand. Especially effective if the lethal zone (20ft) is closed before you're able to escape or draw your weapon. With the light in your hand stricking out and down to the face/head...wow. Doing such while turning your right side back protects your weapon from being grabbed and gives you a chance to turn off at an angle and evaluate the situation and the need to further confront the situation or just haul ass out of there. Its amazing the amount of options that are opened up by carrying a simple little tactical light.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #173 April 28, 2005 QuoteYeah, that is an incredible device to own, very useful. Nevermind that you can dazzle a would be attacker and give them temporary nightblindness, it will do considerable "less lethal" damage when used as a defensive weapon. I'm not sure what technique you use when holding a light and a handgun for firing, but I do "crossed arms" method with the light coming out the bottom of my left hand. Especially effective if the lethal zone (20ft) is closed before you're able to escape or draw your weapon. With the light in your hand stricking out and down to the face/head...wow. Doing such while turning your right side back protects your weapon from being grabbed and gives you a chance to turn off at an angle and evaluate the situation and the need to further confront the situation or just haul ass out of there. Its amazing the amount of options that are opened up by carrying a simple little tactical light. I like to vary how I hold the light and gun... sometimes how you do it, sometimes incorporating the light into the supporting hand of the grip, b/t the index and middle fingers, it's pretty comfy there, I have long fingers. but I like the option of moving the light out away from me and still on the target, that way if they are armed, they'll shoot towards the light, an arms distance away from me. surefire is such an awesome company... and their customer service kicks ass. well worth the money. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #174 April 28, 2005 QuoteI like the option of moving the light out away from me and still on the target, that way if they are armed, they'll shoot towards the light, an arms distance away from me. Have you played with multipul point dazzling? Basically like the arms length, but using the push on/off instead of locked on, you move the light all around to different places within your arm's range. Light on for about 1/10th of a second off for another 1/2 then on again at a different spot. Play with it tonight in your dark house, you'll be amazed at what you're able to see (especially with night sights) and it'll really show you how it would/could confuse the hell out of someone, disorientate them.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #175 April 28, 2005 that's awesome! I regularly use the push on/off instead of locking the tailcap, esp. since batteries are so f*cking expensive (I substituted my 60 lumen bulb w/ a 120 lumen one, so I only get about 20 min of battery time), but I've never tried moving the thing around... that's a great idea. and the kimber DEFINATELY has night sites... t'wood be silly not to... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
sinker 0 #159 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote [using them as a way to defend your home is crap, imho] would be wiser for the other side.) I dunno, I think a shotgun is a pretty good home defense weapon. Indeed it is!! Nothing more frightening than the sound of a 12 gauge being wracked. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #160 April 28, 2005 My father always kept a loaded gun in his nightstand because his job carried a certain degree of personal risk. He told us where it was, showed it to us and told us never to touch it. He explained what could happen if we did. We never touched it because we respected him and feared what would happen to us if he ever found out we touched it. When I grew up, it was common for children to know how to use a firearm. I got my first .22 cal rifle when I was 8 or 9 and I was told never to aim it at anything I wasn't intending on shooting. We did shoot birds, squirrels, etc. but this taught us what would happen if we ever fired it at a person. So the question is this: At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" as I remember. So what has changed in our society? Is it TV, movies, video games, poor parenting, or a combination of all of them? Isn't addressing the gun as the problem only a way to avoid dealing with the real underlying societal problems? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #161 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think you're quibbling Maybe, but my point is this. Any kid dying is bad...Don't blame the gun (And liberals always seem to want to blame the tool). Its not the tool folks...Its a fault of the parents. A parent leaving a gun out is not different than them leaving a poison out. Yep. Unfortunately, our society has come to be one where no one will take responsibility for their own actions. It's alot easier to blame the gun than the parent because "guns are evil". There was a tragic incident a few months a go here in N. Texas where a young child was killed because they were run over by the car that the father was backing out of the garage. I believe that the family is currenty in a lawsuit with the car manufacturer and dealer because a rear-view camera was not standard on the vehicle (it was an option however). The fact that people will go to such extremes to blame other things before accepting responsibility for their own actions sickens me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #162 April 28, 2005 QuoteMy father always kept a loaded gun in his nightstand because his job carried a certain degree of personal risk. He told us where it was, showed it to us and told us never to touch it. He explained what could happen if we did. We never touched it because we respected him and feared what would happen to us if he ever found out we touched it. When I grew up, it was common for children to know how to use a firearm. I got my first .22 cal rifle when I was 8 or 9 and I was told never to aim it at anything I wasn't intending on shooting. We did shoot birds, squirrels, etc. but this taught us what would happen if we ever fired it at a person. So the question is this: At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" as I remember. So what has changed in our society? Is it TV, movies, video games, poor parenting, or a combination of all of them? Isn't addressing the gun as the problem only a way to avoid dealing with the real underlying societal problems? Very good post. I bought my son a bb gun last two xmas's ago. he never gets to shoot it unless I'm supervising. daughter gets in on the action too. She's 8, he's 6. They also have slingshots, same thing... supervised use only. After they are proficient at them and have demonstrated that they are responsible w/ them (i.e. I don't have to remind them of the rules), then they will gradually get to have more freedom. As for why more things like Columbine happen now? Man, I don't know. I'm sure there are many factors, but "bad parenting," I think, is certainly up there near the top. IMHO, I think too many parents are caught up in their own stuff and don't spend enough time w/ the kids, aren't interested in them, whatever. Many parents have to work 2 jobs (well, to sustain the lifestyle they're used to, many times), and kids have a lot of free time after school (if they aren't ditching) during which they can explore and get into things that aren't good for them. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #163 April 28, 2005 QuoteBEFORE anyone flames me, let me catagorically say that ANY kid dying at the hands of a gun is a tragedy. Not to me. Most of them weren't innocent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #164 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteBEFORE anyone flames me, let me catagorically say that ANY kid dying at the hands of a gun is a tragedy. Not to me. Most of them weren't innocent. still a tragedy, but in a little different way... tragic that so many of today's youth get mixed up in gangs, drugs, etc. where guns are prolific. then, to get killed and not have the chance to reform and make something of your life? truly tragic. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #165 April 28, 2005 Quote>"I WILL NOT BE A VICTIM AGAIN!" But there is a very odd tack that gun proponents have taken about the whole 'victim' thing. Many of them feel that guns equal power. If you go to a place where guns are not allowed, you become a 'disarmed victim.' If you carry a gun, you will never be a victim again. Guns represent options, which is power. Doesn't guarantee a blissful uneventful life, but increases the odds that you will set the conditions for the outcome, rather than praying the bad guy doesn't already have 2 strikes on his record. Dress for success is the motto in many sports, including our's. Should routine life be any different? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #166 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteGee, there are only two to three millions crimes stopped because of guns every year. Mmmm hmm....I don't fully buy that, and let's not get into how many murders there are every year. So what number short of 2 million is high enough to be meaningful, in your opinion? The lowball numbers are 80-100k, which is still well in excess of the ~10k murders. An even higher ratio if you remove the cases of felons killing each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #167 April 28, 2005 >At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with > them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but >certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" >as I remember. So what has changed in our society? That's an excellent question, and I think at the root of many of the gun-control debates going on. Because the underlying issue (in my opinion) is not that guns are bad, but that they make it very easy for evil people to kill a lot of people at once. The gun-control argument often devolves to "if you only give people children's toys they can't kill as many people" which may be true, but I think the more important issue is why we have people who _want_ to kill other people. Moore did a whole movie about that very question, but the movie has become such a political weapon (used by both sides) that few people see it as anything other than an anti-gun movie or a target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #168 April 28, 2005 QuoteI've only had to defend myself once so far, from a mugging. Before I knew what was happening, the guy had his arm around my throat and had his hands in my back pocket (fortunately my wallet was in my front.) I managed to throw him. He got up and ran away. Had I been carrying a gun, the outcome could have been the same or worse; the situation might have ended up with either one of us dead. Of course, I didn't have a gun, so I was no doubt a victim there. Well Bill, sounds like you need to work on your situational awareness, BUT I'm not going to be a hypocrite since I wasn't there I don't know what really happened or the events leading up to it. As for the gun=safety cliche, its getting old and I think you know better. Guys like me kill that stereotype. I'm well trained and profecient in using my sidearm to defend myself as a last resort. I'm also an avid martial artist with a focus on real world defense. Nevermind that I've spent a good deal of time learning and becoming good at using my combat folder (Spyderco Endura) for defense as well. Then we can move along to improvised weapons. I've studied with the sort staff (walking stick, basically). Why have I done all of that and more I didn't list? Well primarily its a hell of a lot of fun. I believe you've mentioned before that you've studied martial arts, I'm sure you'd agree that its a fun thing to be involved in (nevermind its a good workout), but all of that training can (and has in my life) been useful. Sometime Bill, I've got to tell you the story about the a guy in this bluecollar/biker bar I used to hang out at in N. Texas. He really tried hard to start a fight with me, well the bouncer was laughing at him as I ended the situation and walked him out the door. I didn't even have to hit him, some really fast joint lock work and he didn't know WTF had happened.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #169 April 28, 2005 tactical folders kick ass... mines an Emerson Tanto... AggieDave, I'm liking you more and more each day! (not in THAT way though) another good improvised weapon at night is a very bright flashlight... like a surefire w/ a serated bevel... blind the f*cker then punch him w/ said light. works mah-vlously. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #170 April 28, 2005 Quote tactical folders kick ass... mines an Emerson Tanto... I want an Emerson CQC 7-wave really badly. I just can't afford it or justify it yet. I am getting one as a present to myself if I get hired by one of the local PDs though.Quote. like a surefire w/ a serated bevel... Oh, like this one? *AggieDave holds up his Surefire "Executive Defender, E2D to the monitor for viewing*--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #171 April 28, 2005 *AggieDave holds up his Surefire "Executive Defender, E2D to the monitor for viewing* *** that's it exactly! you rock man. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #172 April 28, 2005 Yeah, that is an incredible device to own, very useful. Nevermind that you can dazzle a would be attacker and give them temporary nightblindness, it will do considerable "less lethal" damage when used as a defensive weapon. I'm not sure what technique you use when holding a light and a handgun for firing, but I do "crossed arms" method with the light coming out the bottom of my left hand. Especially effective if the lethal zone (20ft) is closed before you're able to escape or draw your weapon. With the light in your hand stricking out and down to the face/head...wow. Doing such while turning your right side back protects your weapon from being grabbed and gives you a chance to turn off at an angle and evaluate the situation and the need to further confront the situation or just haul ass out of there. Its amazing the amount of options that are opened up by carrying a simple little tactical light.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #173 April 28, 2005 QuoteYeah, that is an incredible device to own, very useful. Nevermind that you can dazzle a would be attacker and give them temporary nightblindness, it will do considerable "less lethal" damage when used as a defensive weapon. I'm not sure what technique you use when holding a light and a handgun for firing, but I do "crossed arms" method with the light coming out the bottom of my left hand. Especially effective if the lethal zone (20ft) is closed before you're able to escape or draw your weapon. With the light in your hand stricking out and down to the face/head...wow. Doing such while turning your right side back protects your weapon from being grabbed and gives you a chance to turn off at an angle and evaluate the situation and the need to further confront the situation or just haul ass out of there. Its amazing the amount of options that are opened up by carrying a simple little tactical light. I like to vary how I hold the light and gun... sometimes how you do it, sometimes incorporating the light into the supporting hand of the grip, b/t the index and middle fingers, it's pretty comfy there, I have long fingers. but I like the option of moving the light out away from me and still on the target, that way if they are armed, they'll shoot towards the light, an arms distance away from me. surefire is such an awesome company... and their customer service kicks ass. well worth the money. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #174 April 28, 2005 QuoteI like the option of moving the light out away from me and still on the target, that way if they are armed, they'll shoot towards the light, an arms distance away from me. Have you played with multipul point dazzling? Basically like the arms length, but using the push on/off instead of locked on, you move the light all around to different places within your arm's range. Light on for about 1/10th of a second off for another 1/2 then on again at a different spot. Play with it tonight in your dark house, you'll be amazed at what you're able to see (especially with night sights) and it'll really show you how it would/could confuse the hell out of someone, disorientate them.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #175 April 28, 2005 that's awesome! I regularly use the push on/off instead of locking the tailcap, esp. since batteries are so f*cking expensive (I substituted my 60 lumen bulb w/ a 120 lumen one, so I only get about 20 min of battery time), but I've never tried moving the thing around... that's a great idea. and the kimber DEFINATELY has night sites... t'wood be silly not to... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Gravitymaster 0 #160 April 28, 2005 My father always kept a loaded gun in his nightstand because his job carried a certain degree of personal risk. He told us where it was, showed it to us and told us never to touch it. He explained what could happen if we did. We never touched it because we respected him and feared what would happen to us if he ever found out we touched it. When I grew up, it was common for children to know how to use a firearm. I got my first .22 cal rifle when I was 8 or 9 and I was told never to aim it at anything I wasn't intending on shooting. We did shoot birds, squirrels, etc. but this taught us what would happen if we ever fired it at a person. So the question is this: At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" as I remember. So what has changed in our society? Is it TV, movies, video games, poor parenting, or a combination of all of them? Isn't addressing the gun as the problem only a way to avoid dealing with the real underlying societal problems? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #161 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think you're quibbling Maybe, but my point is this. Any kid dying is bad...Don't blame the gun (And liberals always seem to want to blame the tool). Its not the tool folks...Its a fault of the parents. A parent leaving a gun out is not different than them leaving a poison out. Yep. Unfortunately, our society has come to be one where no one will take responsibility for their own actions. It's alot easier to blame the gun than the parent because "guns are evil". There was a tragic incident a few months a go here in N. Texas where a young child was killed because they were run over by the car that the father was backing out of the garage. I believe that the family is currenty in a lawsuit with the car manufacturer and dealer because a rear-view camera was not standard on the vehicle (it was an option however). The fact that people will go to such extremes to blame other things before accepting responsibility for their own actions sickens me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #162 April 28, 2005 QuoteMy father always kept a loaded gun in his nightstand because his job carried a certain degree of personal risk. He told us where it was, showed it to us and told us never to touch it. He explained what could happen if we did. We never touched it because we respected him and feared what would happen to us if he ever found out we touched it. When I grew up, it was common for children to know how to use a firearm. I got my first .22 cal rifle when I was 8 or 9 and I was told never to aim it at anything I wasn't intending on shooting. We did shoot birds, squirrels, etc. but this taught us what would happen if we ever fired it at a person. So the question is this: At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" as I remember. So what has changed in our society? Is it TV, movies, video games, poor parenting, or a combination of all of them? Isn't addressing the gun as the problem only a way to avoid dealing with the real underlying societal problems? Very good post. I bought my son a bb gun last two xmas's ago. he never gets to shoot it unless I'm supervising. daughter gets in on the action too. She's 8, he's 6. They also have slingshots, same thing... supervised use only. After they are proficient at them and have demonstrated that they are responsible w/ them (i.e. I don't have to remind them of the rules), then they will gradually get to have more freedom. As for why more things like Columbine happen now? Man, I don't know. I'm sure there are many factors, but "bad parenting," I think, is certainly up there near the top. IMHO, I think too many parents are caught up in their own stuff and don't spend enough time w/ the kids, aren't interested in them, whatever. Many parents have to work 2 jobs (well, to sustain the lifestyle they're used to, many times), and kids have a lot of free time after school (if they aren't ditching) during which they can explore and get into things that aren't good for them. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #163 April 28, 2005 QuoteBEFORE anyone flames me, let me catagorically say that ANY kid dying at the hands of a gun is a tragedy. Not to me. Most of them weren't innocent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #164 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteBEFORE anyone flames me, let me catagorically say that ANY kid dying at the hands of a gun is a tragedy. Not to me. Most of them weren't innocent. still a tragedy, but in a little different way... tragic that so many of today's youth get mixed up in gangs, drugs, etc. where guns are prolific. then, to get killed and not have the chance to reform and make something of your life? truly tragic. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #165 April 28, 2005 Quote>"I WILL NOT BE A VICTIM AGAIN!" But there is a very odd tack that gun proponents have taken about the whole 'victim' thing. Many of them feel that guns equal power. If you go to a place where guns are not allowed, you become a 'disarmed victim.' If you carry a gun, you will never be a victim again. Guns represent options, which is power. Doesn't guarantee a blissful uneventful life, but increases the odds that you will set the conditions for the outcome, rather than praying the bad guy doesn't already have 2 strikes on his record. Dress for success is the motto in many sports, including our's. Should routine life be any different? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #166 April 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteGee, there are only two to three millions crimes stopped because of guns every year. Mmmm hmm....I don't fully buy that, and let's not get into how many murders there are every year. So what number short of 2 million is high enough to be meaningful, in your opinion? The lowball numbers are 80-100k, which is still well in excess of the ~10k murders. An even higher ratio if you remove the cases of felons killing each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #167 April 28, 2005 >At what point did kids start to take firearms and shoot other kids with > them? I'm not saying it never happened when I was a child, but >certainly not to the degree it occurs today. There were no "Columbines" >as I remember. So what has changed in our society? That's an excellent question, and I think at the root of many of the gun-control debates going on. Because the underlying issue (in my opinion) is not that guns are bad, but that they make it very easy for evil people to kill a lot of people at once. The gun-control argument often devolves to "if you only give people children's toys they can't kill as many people" which may be true, but I think the more important issue is why we have people who _want_ to kill other people. Moore did a whole movie about that very question, but the movie has become such a political weapon (used by both sides) that few people see it as anything other than an anti-gun movie or a target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #168 April 28, 2005 QuoteI've only had to defend myself once so far, from a mugging. Before I knew what was happening, the guy had his arm around my throat and had his hands in my back pocket (fortunately my wallet was in my front.) I managed to throw him. He got up and ran away. Had I been carrying a gun, the outcome could have been the same or worse; the situation might have ended up with either one of us dead. Of course, I didn't have a gun, so I was no doubt a victim there. Well Bill, sounds like you need to work on your situational awareness, BUT I'm not going to be a hypocrite since I wasn't there I don't know what really happened or the events leading up to it. As for the gun=safety cliche, its getting old and I think you know better. Guys like me kill that stereotype. I'm well trained and profecient in using my sidearm to defend myself as a last resort. I'm also an avid martial artist with a focus on real world defense. Nevermind that I've spent a good deal of time learning and becoming good at using my combat folder (Spyderco Endura) for defense as well. Then we can move along to improvised weapons. I've studied with the sort staff (walking stick, basically). Why have I done all of that and more I didn't list? Well primarily its a hell of a lot of fun. I believe you've mentioned before that you've studied martial arts, I'm sure you'd agree that its a fun thing to be involved in (nevermind its a good workout), but all of that training can (and has in my life) been useful. Sometime Bill, I've got to tell you the story about the a guy in this bluecollar/biker bar I used to hang out at in N. Texas. He really tried hard to start a fight with me, well the bouncer was laughing at him as I ended the situation and walked him out the door. I didn't even have to hit him, some really fast joint lock work and he didn't know WTF had happened.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #169 April 28, 2005 tactical folders kick ass... mines an Emerson Tanto... AggieDave, I'm liking you more and more each day! (not in THAT way though) another good improvised weapon at night is a very bright flashlight... like a surefire w/ a serated bevel... blind the f*cker then punch him w/ said light. works mah-vlously. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #170 April 28, 2005 Quote tactical folders kick ass... mines an Emerson Tanto... I want an Emerson CQC 7-wave really badly. I just can't afford it or justify it yet. I am getting one as a present to myself if I get hired by one of the local PDs though.Quote. like a surefire w/ a serated bevel... Oh, like this one? *AggieDave holds up his Surefire "Executive Defender, E2D to the monitor for viewing*--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #171 April 28, 2005 *AggieDave holds up his Surefire "Executive Defender, E2D to the monitor for viewing* *** that's it exactly! you rock man. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #172 April 28, 2005 Yeah, that is an incredible device to own, very useful. Nevermind that you can dazzle a would be attacker and give them temporary nightblindness, it will do considerable "less lethal" damage when used as a defensive weapon. I'm not sure what technique you use when holding a light and a handgun for firing, but I do "crossed arms" method with the light coming out the bottom of my left hand. Especially effective if the lethal zone (20ft) is closed before you're able to escape or draw your weapon. With the light in your hand stricking out and down to the face/head...wow. Doing such while turning your right side back protects your weapon from being grabbed and gives you a chance to turn off at an angle and evaluate the situation and the need to further confront the situation or just haul ass out of there. Its amazing the amount of options that are opened up by carrying a simple little tactical light.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #173 April 28, 2005 QuoteYeah, that is an incredible device to own, very useful. Nevermind that you can dazzle a would be attacker and give them temporary nightblindness, it will do considerable "less lethal" damage when used as a defensive weapon. I'm not sure what technique you use when holding a light and a handgun for firing, but I do "crossed arms" method with the light coming out the bottom of my left hand. Especially effective if the lethal zone (20ft) is closed before you're able to escape or draw your weapon. With the light in your hand stricking out and down to the face/head...wow. Doing such while turning your right side back protects your weapon from being grabbed and gives you a chance to turn off at an angle and evaluate the situation and the need to further confront the situation or just haul ass out of there. Its amazing the amount of options that are opened up by carrying a simple little tactical light. I like to vary how I hold the light and gun... sometimes how you do it, sometimes incorporating the light into the supporting hand of the grip, b/t the index and middle fingers, it's pretty comfy there, I have long fingers. but I like the option of moving the light out away from me and still on the target, that way if they are armed, they'll shoot towards the light, an arms distance away from me. surefire is such an awesome company... and their customer service kicks ass. well worth the money. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #174 April 28, 2005 QuoteI like the option of moving the light out away from me and still on the target, that way if they are armed, they'll shoot towards the light, an arms distance away from me. Have you played with multipul point dazzling? Basically like the arms length, but using the push on/off instead of locked on, you move the light all around to different places within your arm's range. Light on for about 1/10th of a second off for another 1/2 then on again at a different spot. Play with it tonight in your dark house, you'll be amazed at what you're able to see (especially with night sights) and it'll really show you how it would/could confuse the hell out of someone, disorientate them.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #175 April 28, 2005 that's awesome! I regularly use the push on/off instead of locking the tailcap, esp. since batteries are so f*cking expensive (I substituted my 60 lumen bulb w/ a 120 lumen one, so I only get about 20 min of battery time), but I've never tried moving the thing around... that's a great idea. and the kimber DEFINATELY has night sites... t'wood be silly not to... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
