justinb138 0 #101 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou can't kill someone with a gun if you don't have a gun. *** nor can you defend yourself effectively from a criminal who HAS a gun.... Guy in a crowded bar pulls a gun and I'm in arms reach - I think I can effectively defend myself. What are the odds of you being within arms reach of every person in a bar that could pull a gun? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #102 April 27, 2005 And "Facist America" is more useful? Look at your source, .witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #103 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou can't kill someone with a gun if you don't have a gun. *** nor can you defend yourself effectively from a criminal who HAS a gun.... Guy in a crowded bar pulls a gun and I'm in arms reach - I think I can effectively defend myself. Former Marine aren't you? YOU can perhaps, others may not be as fortunate. And, not all instances occur w/i arms reach. That's another benefit of legally armed citizens... the gun allows for some "distance" to hopefully occur. W/i arms reach, such an encounter may not give you time to go for your own gun. However, if you ARE armed and can safely deploy your firearm, at least you have another option. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #104 April 27, 2005 Quote Former Marine aren't you? YOU can perhaps, others may not be as fortunate. And, not all instances occur w/i arms reach. That's another benefit of legally armed citizens... the gun allows for some "distance" to hopefully occur. W/i arms reach, such an encounter may not give you time to go for your own gun. However, if you ARE armed and can safely deploy your firearm, at least you have another option. See, now you're being gear dependent instead of using your head. I don't think you should be in situations with your weapon that you wouldn't normally go into unarmed. Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #105 April 27, 2005 QuoteEven in the most pro-gun state, I'm fairly sure that concealed carry licenses numbers don't pass four or five percent of the total elligible population. I think you're right about that... which is really more telling considering that the states wherein concealed carry has been passed have seen decreases in violent crime, attributed to CCW legislation. It doesn't take "every Joe" carrying a gun to deter crime or to stop criminals in the act... just knowing that you MIGHT be armed is enough to keep the coward criminals looking for an easier target. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #106 April 27, 2005 Quote>or a gun control sound byte you can show is true? You can't kill someone with a gun if you don't have a gun. And it's somehow better to die by any method other than firearms? What point does that soundbyte make, other than stating the obvious? Quote>The difference is that mine have a basis in reality. Ha! Since I can carry a baseball bat into somewhere that guns are not allowed, it is not a 'victim disarmament zone.' Therefore, "victim disarmament zone" has no basis in reality. Bill, if you are going into a fight, what is the most effective weapon you could bring? QuoteI know, your emotional appeals make perfect sense and the other side's don't. They think the same of yours. And both sides will continue to replace intelligent discussion with emotional appeals. It is insulting that you consider me no different from gun-controllers. Do I need to remind you that the ATF never had to hold a press conference to clarify statistics (and show that my numbers didn't mean what I claim), as they have with Brady/VPC claims?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #107 April 27, 2005 I don't think you should be in situations with your weapon that you wouldn't normally go into unarmed.*** please elaborate. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #108 April 27, 2005 QuoteBill, if you are going into a fight, what is the most effective weapon you could bring? honestly? A cool head and your brain.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #109 April 27, 2005 QuoteI don't think you should be in situations with your weapon that you wouldn't normally go into unarmed.*** please elaborate. Go see the cypres thread in safety and training - it was a joke..... I knew SC doesn't have a funny bone and posted it anyway... BAD ME! Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #110 April 27, 2005 You want to face seven jackals intent on murder with a cool head and your brain, go for it. It'll take a firearms and my lower brain functions. I think I'll fare better than you.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #111 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteBill, if you are going into a fight, what is the most effective weapon you could bring? honestly? A cool head and your brain. Yup - and sometimes a good brain will tell you to arm yourself ahead of time ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #112 April 27, 2005 Quote Yup - and sometimes a good brain will tell you to arm yourself ahead of time sometimes but not always. That's what gets me about some of the pro-gun people here though - the sentiment I'm getting (whether right or wrong I don't know it's just what I'm getting) is that guns will solve the worlds problems. I disagree.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #113 April 27, 2005 QuoteYou wrote: Quote] Like me, I never understood that easy going way to handle guns/handguns for every Joe in the street like it's done in the US. then: QuoteTwo men in Chicago leaving a taxi behind me. Another on in NY in the street. I still trust my eyes. Call it BS, I don't care. Three men in two of the biggest cities in the country? That constitutes "every Joe in the street?" With numbers that small, it could just be that you saw three police officers who were off duty. Quote Seen from that point of view, I have to agree. Seen from the other, that I only spent each one week in the cities, it looks a little different. For me it sounds not that good to watch 3 men equipped with handguns w/in 2 weeks. All my life I never met anyone armed with any weapon outside a shooting range, a hunting area or my hunting shop. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #114 April 27, 2005 QuoteThat's what gets me about some of the pro-gun people here though - the sentiment I'm getting (whether right or wrong I don't know it's just what I'm getting) is that guns will solve the worlds problems. I disagree. I have to say you are extrapolating their passion for the issue with the scope of their argument. The converse could be inferred from the anti-gun folk as well. It's best to stay on topic and not let the emotion of the debaters get you off track. Me? I think that small shovels are the answer to all the world's problems. That, and duct tape. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #115 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuote Yup - and sometimes a good brain will tell you to arm yourself ahead of time sometimes but not always. That's what gets me about some of the pro-gun people here though - the sentiment I'm getting (whether right or wrong I don't know it's just what I'm getting) is that guns will solve the worlds problems. I disagree. It won't solve the world's problems, but it is a nice option to have when you need to defend yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #116 April 27, 2005 Quote Seen from that point of view, I have to agree. Seen from the other, that I only spent each one week in the cities, it looks a little different. For me it sounds not that good to watch 3 men equipped with handguns w/in 2 weeks. Do you recall how the people were carrying the weapons? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumper03 0 #117 April 27, 2005 QuoteMe? I think that small shovels are the answer to all the world's problems. That, and duct tape. I agree about the duct tape - fucking amazing stuff. And I also agree - the rhetoric from both sides can sometimes wear you down. A happy medium would be nice but no one wants to seem to work towards that. It's either everyone armed to the teeth with full automatics or the complete gun abolishment. Ah well - I'm going to jump later so it's all good with me right now. Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #118 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuote Yup - and sometimes a good brain will tell you to arm yourself ahead of time sometimes but not always. That's what gets me about some of the pro-gun people here though - the sentiment I'm getting (whether right or wrong I don't know it's just what I'm getting) is that guns will solve the worlds problems. I disagree. Well, I think here is the crux of the matter.. most pro-gun people I know, including myself, do NOT think guns will solve the world's problems. But they DO "solve" (not really the best word) SOME of the problems... my Kimber 45 that is sitting here with me as I type sure as shit will "solve" the problem of a home invader trying to harm my family. As for other societal problems, there are other appropriate solutions that may or not be utilized. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #119 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteBill, if you are going into a fight, what is the most effective weapon you could bring? honestly? A cool head and your brain. I'll put my Rambo up against your Einstein, anyday. (Oh, and it was he that played a role in urging the development of the A-bomb in America) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumper03 0 #120 April 27, 2005 Quote I'll put my Rambo up against your Einstein, anyday. (Oh, and it was he that played a role in urging the development of the A-bomb in America) so you think rambo can beat an A-bomb? I'll take those odds! I need a new canopy anyway! Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,116 #121 April 27, 2005 >nor can you defend yourself effectively from a criminal who HAS a gun . . . Often true, sometimes not true. But that doesn't make as good an emotional sound bite, now, does it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #122 April 27, 2005 QuoteOften true, sometimes not true I, for one, am not willing to take my chances on that one... but others? feel free... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #123 April 27, 2005 QuoteI'll put my Rambo up against your Einstein, anyday. You know, the Rambo charactor was intelligent and creative. That was his strong point - not his weapons. HE was the weapon rather than hardward. He did most of the damage by mucking with infrastructure, not with his gun. But he used his brains and chose guns as 'one' of his options. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #124 April 27, 2005 Quote>nor can you defend yourself effectively from a criminal who HAS a gun . . . Often true, sometimes not true. But that doesn't make as good an emotional sound bite, now, does it? Bill, what is your position on guns, concealed carry, etc.? (Not trying to bait you, honestly interested.) -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #125 April 27, 2005 ***"opponents of guns in bars cannot point to any documented incidents of trouble with armed patrons in the 33 other states with laws similar to the vetoed Senate Bill" A "non issue" here in Colo. as well CCW in bars here.......no misuse by CCW holders So far, the carnage has failed to materialise,much to the dismay of the "Brady Bunch" Sorry for getting here so late,I didnt know this was a gun threadMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 5 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
rehmwa 2 #114 April 27, 2005 QuoteThat's what gets me about some of the pro-gun people here though - the sentiment I'm getting (whether right or wrong I don't know it's just what I'm getting) is that guns will solve the worlds problems. I disagree. I have to say you are extrapolating their passion for the issue with the scope of their argument. The converse could be inferred from the anti-gun folk as well. It's best to stay on topic and not let the emotion of the debaters get you off track. Me? I think that small shovels are the answer to all the world's problems. That, and duct tape. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #115 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuote Yup - and sometimes a good brain will tell you to arm yourself ahead of time sometimes but not always. That's what gets me about some of the pro-gun people here though - the sentiment I'm getting (whether right or wrong I don't know it's just what I'm getting) is that guns will solve the worlds problems. I disagree. It won't solve the world's problems, but it is a nice option to have when you need to defend yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #116 April 27, 2005 Quote Seen from that point of view, I have to agree. Seen from the other, that I only spent each one week in the cities, it looks a little different. For me it sounds not that good to watch 3 men equipped with handguns w/in 2 weeks. Do you recall how the people were carrying the weapons? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #117 April 27, 2005 QuoteMe? I think that small shovels are the answer to all the world's problems. That, and duct tape. I agree about the duct tape - fucking amazing stuff. And I also agree - the rhetoric from both sides can sometimes wear you down. A happy medium would be nice but no one wants to seem to work towards that. It's either everyone armed to the teeth with full automatics or the complete gun abolishment. Ah well - I'm going to jump later so it's all good with me right now. Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #118 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuote Yup - and sometimes a good brain will tell you to arm yourself ahead of time sometimes but not always. That's what gets me about some of the pro-gun people here though - the sentiment I'm getting (whether right or wrong I don't know it's just what I'm getting) is that guns will solve the worlds problems. I disagree. Well, I think here is the crux of the matter.. most pro-gun people I know, including myself, do NOT think guns will solve the world's problems. But they DO "solve" (not really the best word) SOME of the problems... my Kimber 45 that is sitting here with me as I type sure as shit will "solve" the problem of a home invader trying to harm my family. As for other societal problems, there are other appropriate solutions that may or not be utilized. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #119 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteBill, if you are going into a fight, what is the most effective weapon you could bring? honestly? A cool head and your brain. I'll put my Rambo up against your Einstein, anyday. (Oh, and it was he that played a role in urging the development of the A-bomb in America) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #120 April 27, 2005 Quote I'll put my Rambo up against your Einstein, anyday. (Oh, and it was he that played a role in urging the development of the A-bomb in America) so you think rambo can beat an A-bomb? I'll take those odds! I need a new canopy anyway! Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #121 April 27, 2005 >nor can you defend yourself effectively from a criminal who HAS a gun . . . Often true, sometimes not true. But that doesn't make as good an emotional sound bite, now, does it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #122 April 27, 2005 QuoteOften true, sometimes not true I, for one, am not willing to take my chances on that one... but others? feel free... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #123 April 27, 2005 QuoteI'll put my Rambo up against your Einstein, anyday. You know, the Rambo charactor was intelligent and creative. That was his strong point - not his weapons. HE was the weapon rather than hardward. He did most of the damage by mucking with infrastructure, not with his gun. But he used his brains and chose guns as 'one' of his options. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #124 April 27, 2005 Quote>nor can you defend yourself effectively from a criminal who HAS a gun . . . Often true, sometimes not true. But that doesn't make as good an emotional sound bite, now, does it? Bill, what is your position on guns, concealed carry, etc.? (Not trying to bait you, honestly interested.) -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #125 April 27, 2005 ***"opponents of guns in bars cannot point to any documented incidents of trouble with armed patrons in the 33 other states with laws similar to the vetoed Senate Bill" A "non issue" here in Colo. as well CCW in bars here.......no misuse by CCW holders So far, the carnage has failed to materialise,much to the dismay of the "Brady Bunch" Sorry for getting here so late,I didnt know this was a gun threadMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
