Damned liberals

[mnealtx 0]

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As I have guns, am a hunter, I am not "against".

Unless the person is carrying for defense and not hunting...

As illustrated here:

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But weapons of every kind should never take place somewhere in private like f.e. a bar, a restaurant, near kids etc.... For hunting purposes, it's OK.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Kennedy 0]

christelsabine is against guns for everything other than hunting.

Simple fact. Disturbing, but no less true.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[jumper03 0]

There were some interesting points brought up on the news by both sides last night.

One bar owner asked the question - what do you do if you're serving drinks, then find out a guy has a gun? Try taking a gun away from a drunk.

The other side also had an important caveat - if you can't take your gun into a bar - then it will be locked in your car. AZ has one of the highest auto theft rates in the country. Means more guns for criminals.

Personally, I'd like to go get a beer without having to worry about a shoot out. Soooo - from now on, I'll only patronize bars that have the sign in the window - no guns allowed.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[justinb138 0]

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One bar owner asked the question - what do you do if you're serving drinks, then find out a guy has a gun? Try taking a gun away from a drunk.

Stop serving him beer.

[Kennedy 0]

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One bar owner asked the question - what do you do if you're serving drinks, then find out a guy has a gun? Try taking a gun away from a drunk.

That doesn't change with or without the law being vetoed. Drinking in a bar and carrying would be a law either way. And the answer to his irrelevant question is as simple as it is obivous: let the cops handle it.

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The other side also had an important caveat - if you can't take your gun into a bar - then it will be locked in your car. AZ has one of the highest auto theft rates in the country. Means more guns for criminals.

There's a reason people call them Criminal Protection Zones, or Victim Disarmament Zones, rather than Gun Free Zones.

Maybe the best name would be
Legally-Owned-and-Used-Gun Free Zones.

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Personally, I'd like to go get a beer without having to worry about a shoot out. Soooo - from now on, I'll only patronize bars that have the sign in the window - no guns allowed.

Do you think a person with a concealed carry license is going to be the one causing a shootout?

Or is it the fringe scum who is already packing in your favorite bar, regardless of the law?

Afterall, we've thoroughly established that licensed pistoleros are far more law abiding than the general public.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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One bar owner asked the question - what do you do if you're serving drinks, then find out a guy has a gun? Try taking a gun away from a drunk.

Stop serving him beer.

The best answer is call the cops, but this situation has nothing to do with the law in question.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[jumper03 0]

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Afterall, we've thoroughly established that licensed pistoleros are far more law abiding than the general public.

if alcohol is involved all bets are off.

I think its safe to say I don't trust people with guns.
Its not about the gun with me - its the idiot/asshole behind it that worries me, especially drunk ones.

I know there are people that can be trusted with them, such as Dave (since I know him personally) but there are too many idiots in the world.

I still stay good on Janet. If you want to carry your gun in a bar, move to another state.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[sinker 0]

There's a reason people call them Criminal Protection Zones, or Victim Disarmament Zones, rather than Gun Free Zones.

Maybe the best name would be
Legally-Owned-and-Used-Gun Free Zones***

I keep a couple of stickers on hand when I'd debating anti-gun folks. One says, "this home protected by the second amendment" and has a picture of a pistol on it. This is the one on display at my house.

The second says "gun-free home." I always invite the gun-grabber anti-gunner to display this in their home... that usually ends the debate right there, w/ statements like, "are you crazy? I don't want a would-be home invader to know I'm not armed!"

Gun-toters one, Gun-fearing-wussies zero

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Kennedy 0]

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I think its safe to say I don't trust people with guns.
Its not about the gun with me - its the idiot/asshole behind it that worries me, especially drunk ones.

Then you dhould be jumping up to support the law, not celebrating that it was killed with a veto. Which worries you more, a drunk carrying on the street, or me sipping a soda at your bar while watching the band? (carrying concealed)

Currently, it is illegal to carry in a bar, but not illegal to carry drunk. The law that died would've made it legal to carry into restaurants and bars, but illegal to carry while drinking.

Which makes more sense? Do we ban driving to bars, or driving drunk?

You're also ignoring places like restaurants, clubs, and the like where the majority of people aren't there for drinking. Those places are off limits as well, until reform is passed.

witty subliminal message
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[jumper03 0]

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Those places are off limits as well, until reform is passed.

don't look for that anytime soon.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[Kennedy 0]

A picture is worth a thousand words, eh?

Really, they understand that the possibilty of them being armed scares criminals, but they want to ban gusn and announce to crimianls that no one else has a gun...

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[justinb138 0]

It it currently illegal for a bartender to keep a weapon behind the counter at a bar?

[Kennedy 0]

Well, a veto override is unlikely, so I expect it'll be back and more likely to pass next year.

Napolitano is one of those politicians who wears blaze orange as camoflage. "I beleive in the Second Amendment (I just don't believe it does anything)."

witty subliminal message
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[Kennedy 0]

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It it currently illegal for a bartender to keep a weapon behind the counter at a bar?

I don't know. I didn't see anything clear in the statutes, so I imagine it would be case law, and (I'm only guessing but) in Arizona it is probably legal but not done. It probably comes down to private policy, rather than law.
(owners hate adding more liabilty to a bar)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[billvon 3,116]

>There's a reason people call them Criminal Protection Zones

Same reason people call certain sorts of ammunition cop-killers, or certain weapons assault weapons, or the phrase "guns=violence" pops up so often. Because it has good emotional appeal. Who would be _for_ cop killers, or criminal protection zones, or gun violence? Surely not anyone with a brain! They would much rather support gun-free zones, or teflon bore-protecting bullets.

Funny how both sides do that.

[Kennedy 0]

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Same reason people call certain sorts of ammunition cop-killers, or certain weapons assault weapons, or the phrase "guns=violence" pops up so often. Because it has good emotional appeal. Who would be _for_ cop killers, or criminal protection zones, or gun violence? Surely not anyone with a brain! They would much rather support gun-free zones, or teflon bore-protecting bullets.

The difference is that mine have a basis in reality.

- There is nothing different about "assault weapons."

- Moly coated bullets do not penetrate ballistics vests differently than non-coated bullets. Armor piercing rounds are constructed of different metals and cores, not with simple exterior coatings.

- Places where carrying guns is illegal make wonderful places for criminals to work because all law abiding people are disarmed, while the criminal is not. (he is, afterall, breaking far more important laws than illegal carry)

Have you got a gun-control sound byte I can't easily destroy, or a gun-rights one that I can't mark as true?

Have you got a gun-rights sound byte you can disprove, or a gun control sound byte you can show is true?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[sinker 0]

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>There's a reason people call them Criminal Protection Zones

Same reason people call certain sorts of ammunition cop-killers, or certain weapons assault weapons, or the phrase "guns=violence" pops up so often. Because it has good emotional appeal. Who would be _for_ cop killers, or criminal protection zones, or gun violence? Surely not anyone with a brain! They would much rather support gun-free zones, or teflon bore-protecting bullets.

Funny how both sides do that.

but "criminal protection zone," although having emotinal appeal, is really a more apt description, since it is well known that a mere sign declaring an area as gun-free does nothing to deter a gun-toting criminal. However, general law abiding citizens, acting as they are used to, disarm themselves in such zones. Criminals know this and act accordingly.

As for the buzz terms "cop-killer" bullets and "assault weapons," they really are nothing but emotion-provoking, leftist-engineered slogans designed to advance their agenda.

Practically any weapon can become an "assault weapon," according to the definition under the now-defunct Clinton Assault Weapons Ban (thank God) and BATFE, simply by adding asthetic attachments, such as pistol grip, bipod, bayonet lug, detachable magazine. AK-47s were legally bought and sold during the AWB, as long as they didn't have two or more of the above mentioned items.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 3,116]

>or a gun control sound byte you can show is true?

You can't kill someone with a gun if you don't have a gun.

>The difference is that mine have a basis in reality.

Ha! Since I can carry a baseball bat into somewhere that guns are not allowed, it is not a 'victim disarmament zone.' Therefore, "victim disarmament zone" has no basis in reality.

I know, your emotional appeals make perfect sense and the other side's don't. They think the same of yours. And both sides will continue to replace intelligent discussion with emotional appeals.

[christelsabine 1]

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Where were you when you saw so many people with guns? Other than in very rural areas, I've never seen anyone outside there own home with a gun, and that's here in Texas.

I saw them in NYC. I saw them in Chicago.

I'm calling "bullshit" on this one, christelsabine. It's against the law to carry guns in both of those places. You wouldn't have seen people carrying them around openly in those cities. Those two cities have some of the toughest laws against guns in the entire nation.

Two men in Chicago leaving a taxi behind me. Another on in NY in the street. I still trust my eyes. Call it BS, I don't care.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[sinker 0]

You can't kill someone with a gun if you don't have a gun. ***

nor can you defend yourself effectively from a criminal who HAS a gun... and they all too often do have them.

nor can you defend your family from thugs who are bent on abducting your child or raping your wife.

guns are more effective than other impliments in terms of detering a criminal from further action and in neutralizing a threat. and that is the aim of self-defense w/ a firearm, neutralizing an immediate threat to life or limb, not the killing of a criminal. it just so happens that a criminal MAY die as a result of being stopped by a gun wielding citizen.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[justinb138 0]

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You can't kill someone with a gun if you don't have a gun.

True, but you can easily kill them with a knife.

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Ha! Since I can carry a baseball bat into somewhere that guns are not allowed, it is not a 'victim disarmament zone.' Therefore, "victim disarmament zone" has no basis in reality.

You could carry a baseball bat, but they're not too effective against criminals that don't obey gun laws.

[sinker 0]

Two men in Chicago leaving a taxi behind me. Another on in NY in the street. I still trust my eyes. Call it BS, I don't care. ***

I for one believe you... there are people who, for one reason or another, disobey the law. I would say that most are criminals who couldn't give a damn about the law anyway, but others carry inspite of laws forbidding it b/c they feel that the law prohibiting them from carrying a weapon is unjust and unjust laws need not be followed.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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Damned liberals

"Liberals" has been beaten to death as a demographic. It has lost all meaning in rational discourse. It's the equivalent of the McCarthy era label "Communist."

It's been relegated to a sound bite buzzword, devoid of any real meaning.

[jumper03 0]

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You can't kill someone with a gun if you don't have a gun. ***

nor can you defend yourself effectively from a criminal who HAS a gun....

Guy in a crowded bar pulls a gun and I'm in arms reach - I think I can effectively defend myself.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[Kennedy 0]

You wrote:

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] Like me, I never understood that easy going way to handle guns/handguns for every Joe in the street like it's done in the US.

then:

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Two men in Chicago leaving a taxi behind me. Another on in NY in the street. I still trust my eyes. Call it BS, I don't care.

Three men in two of the biggest cities in the country? That constitutes "every Joe in the street?"

With numbers that small, it could just be that you saw three police officers who were off duty.



Even in the most pro-gun state, I'm fairly sure that concealed carry licenses numbers don't pass four or five percent of the total elligible population.

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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