Just Too Much To "Let It Go"

[Kennedy 0]

And people wonder why gun owners don't trust the government and the BATFE. It's because they don't trust us.

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CCRKBA CALLS REMARKS BY FORMER ATF OFFICIAL 'OUTRAGEOUS, SLANDEROUS'

An outrageous remark by a former official with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is "nothing short of slanderous," said leaders of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA).

Gerald Nunziato, former head of ATF's National Tracing Center and now a partner in Crime Gun Solutions, an anti-gun consulting firm, told the Houston Chronicle Sunday, "If it wasn't for criminals, there wouldn't be a gun industry in this country."

CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb fired back: "If it wasn't for remarks like Nunziato's, perhaps law-abiding American gun owners would not consider ATF an adversarial agency when it comes to Second Amendment rights. His comment is nothing short of slanderous. I guess in his opinion, we're all criminals."

Nunziato was in charge of the ATF's National Tracing Center from late 1991 through the end of 1998 under the Clinton Administration. He opposed the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act of 2004, and as far back as 2002, he was claiming to Bill Moyers in a PBS program called "Gun Land" that "Terrorists could come to this country and obtain firearms so easy ... We sell anything in this country. It's very easy to obtain weapons here from gun shows, pawn shops, straw purchases, relatives, through newspaper ads."

"Gerald Nunziato appears intent on spreading anti-gun hysteria with such remarks," said CCRKBA Executive Director Joe Waldron. "It's no wonder why he is frequently quoted by anti gun rights extremists like Senators Dianne Feinstein and Frank Lautenberg, and the zealots at the Brady Campaign. It's disappointing that the Houston Chronicle published his remarks as though they were factual, when it is easily proven otherwise."

"Nunziato has admitted under oath," Gottlieb recalled, "in the California case against Arcadia Machine and Tool, Inc. that just because guns sold by specific dealers were eventually involved in crimes there could be no conclusive claim of wrongdoing without supporting data.

"We sincerely hope that Nunziato's statements do not reflect the philosophy of the ATF today," Gottlieb concluded. "This kind of anti-gun bigotry has no place in an agency that deals with firearms manufacturers, distributors, retailers and American gun owners on a daily basis."

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[Kennedy 0]

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EDITORIAL - Sebelius, guns and the NRA
Gov. Kathleen Sebelius has signed a gun bill, but it was not the one the National Rifle Association really wanted.

The NRA and its friends want concealed carry.

The bill the governor signed last week aims at uniform gun regulation across the state.

Sebelius vetoed a concealed carry bill last year.

Apparently, Sen. Phil Journey, R-Haysville, and his allies did not round up enough votes to override this year.

No doubt they will be back on the concealed-carry trail next year.

The bill Sebelius signed preempts local gun ordinances — and the home rule that allowed them to differ from city to city.

Some law enforcement leaders argued this will allow gang violence to increase. They may be right.

The next step for the NRA should not be concealed carry but rather a serious effort to update statewide gun regulations.

This is the best way to make sure Kansas can “keep guns out of the hands of criminals.”

Concealed carry is a dubious step toward greater public safety. It endangers law enforcement officers.

It would be better for Sen. Journey and his allies to do something to strengthen law enforcement and at the same time effectively protect law-abiding citizens...

... and not just those who choose to carry a concealed firearm.

I suppose statistical evidence from thirty-some states is not enough...

I suppose the fac tthat all benefit because some are armed isn't good enough...

I suppose the fact that CCW license holders are more law abiding than the general public isn't good enough...

I suppose only continuing to pass general gun control is good enough, even though it doesn't work...

witty subliminal message
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[Kennedy 0]

(bold paragraphs are my responses)
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~27772~2825605,00.html

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Innocents take hits in gun culture
By Jim Spencer
Denver Post Staff Writer

It would be interesting to hear violence-mongering simpletons like Ted Nugent explain to Anna Maria Moreno how guns keep you safe.

It'd be interesting to hear this moronic hack with a keyboard explain to Tony Roman's son how guns only make things worse. Or the parents whose children are still alive because of Joel Myrick. Or the thousands of Americans alive and in the "Armed Citizen" archives. Or the millions of other people who use firearms for self defense or to prevent crimes every year.

Think he has an explenation? I don't.


In Houston on Saturday, Nugent, a burned-out rocker and gun nut, told a cheering assembly at the National Rifle Association convention what too many of them already believe:

"Remember the Alamo! Shoot 'em!" Nugent shouted. "To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun, and when they attack you, shoot 'em."

Moreno, 47, couldn't be reached for comment on this battle cry. She's still recovering from a stray bullet that landed in her neck the very day Nugent issued his NRA-sanctioned ode to killing.

Moreno ended up in serious condition at Denver Health Medical Center on Saturday. She arrived after one man pulled a gun and opened fire on another who supposedly tried to steal his motorcycle.

The alleged thief pulled his own piece and shot back, police say.

The combatants fired a total of seven shots. None hit their intended targets. Instead, a slug slammed into Moreno's neck and put the lie to Nugent's rant.

Notice that they don't mention which man fired the bullet that injured her.

"The bad guys" aren't the only ones who end up dead or wounded when everyone is armed.

Moreno didn't try to steal anyone's motorcycle. She didn't aid or abet anyone who did. She didn't put herself in harm's way by knowingly going to a dangerous place.

The gunplay that wounded her didn't happen late at night. It happened in broad daylight.

The Wild West shootout that left her hospitalized didn't take place at a bar, social club or some other joint where people too often check their common sense at the curb.

This violence took place at the Jumbo Car Wash.

Young people frequent the car wash in warm weather, police said.

This apparently was meant to explain the gunshots heard between the soap and rinse cycles this time of year.

I suppose this "journalist" isn't aware that 95% of crime is committed by "young people."

It's spring in America, when a young man's fancy turns to firepower.

Sounds like a lyric from Ted Nugent. He is, after all, the guy who gave us "Wango Tango" ("You got to pretend your face is a Maserati").

Trouble is, Moreno was not at the Jumbo Car Wash. She was shopping at a store across the street.

That's all she did to join the long list of innocent victims of America's guns-are-good culture.

Wouldn't a "crime is bad" group make more sense than a "inanimate objects are bad" group?

Those people are legion across the country. But on this day, the sixth anniversary of the Columbine High School massacre, you needn't look out of state.

Like Ted Nugent, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold believed in the liberating power of firearms. They got one of the guns used in their killing spree via a legal loophole that made straw purchases of weapons easier. The NRA didn't want that loophole closed after Harris and Klebold gunned down 12 students and one teacher at Columbine.

A damned lie. Requiring background checks on non-dealers at a gun show wouldn't have stopped the girl from buying a gun for the killers.

The NRA's hands-off approach to gun regulation ensures that hundreds of millions of weapons remain in American society.

Therein lies the irony. Owning a gun for protection guarantees nothing.

Last month, a 9-year-old in Pueblo died after accidentally shooting herself with a handgun she found in her father's bedroom.

And this is somehow the NRA's fault, not the parents who failed to educate the child and secure the firearm?

In October, a shot from a front-yard altercation at a high school party tore through a wall and killed an unarmed 17-year-old inside a home in Wheat Ridge. She'd have been just as dead if she'd held an Uzi in each hand.

And I'm sure the participants in this altercation were both card carrying NRA members and properly licensed for CCW, right?

The list goes on. It will grow as long as folks refuse to distinguish between Ted Nugent's fantasy and Anna Maria Moreno's fact.

In Nugent's dream, more guns mean more security.

Do I really need to go into the fact that multiple victim shootings and other rampages happen in No-Gun "safe zones?"
(more appropriately called Victim Disarmament Zones, or maybe Criminal Pretection Zones)

In Moreno's world, more guns mean you can't shop on Saturday afternoon.

And in the world of countless millions Americans, they are alive and well thanks to a gun they used themselves or that someone else used on their behalf.
Should I mention the millions of crime prevented every year? Or the fact that when you do a cost benefit analysis, you need to include the BENEFIT?

Do a few tragedies outweigh the unimaginable good gun owners have done since before the inception of this country?

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=3236398&nav=5ka4YtHi

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By Julie Sidoni
Standing Up to Violence in Scranton

An effort to make Pennsylvania communities safer brought people from Philadelphia to Scranton Wednesday morning. They met at the Bethel A.M.E. Church on North Washington Avenue.

Community members from Scranton showed up to hear what members of community groups in Philadelphia had to say about preventing violence, particularly gun violence.

uh huh...

Cheree Ryans' teenage son was gunned down coming out of a movie theater 15 years ago. She said she was devastated by the experience, so she joined Mothers in Charge, a group that travels statewide to bring awareness to gun violence.

"awareness?" Right, I'm sure that's all they want...

A second group, Men United for a Better Philadelphia joined the Mothers in Charge group to bring their advice to Scranton on how people here can start their own grassroots programs.

According to one of the groups, there are more gun permits issued in the city of Philadelphia than in the city of New York or the entire state of New Jersey and their claim is it's very possible many of those guns are making their way to the streets of Scranton.

That large number of permits in PA could have something to do with the fact that PA is a Rightt o Carry state that issues permits to anyone who meets the legal criteria, while NY and NJ issue only to politicians, celebrities, and campaign contributors.

It is the height of ignorance to claim that CCW license holders are selling or losing their guns on the streets of Scranton. Or do these people think CCW lincese holders carrying in Scranton ARE the problem?

That's why they're trying to drum up support for a new bill in Harrisburg. It would limit how many guns you could buy in a 30 day period, which the groups say would reduce gun accessibility.

A law shown to hurt collectors and legal purchasers, and have no effect whatsoever on crime rates or the availability of illegal guns on the street.

That brought some opposition. "No handgun ever walked out a door and killed anybody. To come along and blame guns for what's happening in our country is totally ridiculous," said Bob Neverosky of Scranton.

At least one Scranton parent applauded the group's ideas and said whatever it takes, it's time to do it.

"Whatever it takes," "think of the children," "if it saves just one live," blah blah blah

"The next time around, it'll be my 17 year old daughter, just walking to the convenience store to get a box of cookies. We've got to deal with something right here!" said Carl Moody.

I'm glad she wants to do somthing about local crime, but this woman is a fool.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[sinker 0]

VERY FINE RANTS, my friend, very fine indeed! And I'm completely with you. You don't see blood pooling in the streets of states w/ concealed carry laws. In fact, as you've said, you see a REDUCTION in violent crime, in EVERY state. Not so for metropolitan areas like DC, Chicago, etc.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Kennedy 0]

The sad thing is I had several more articles from that very same day; all just as easily torn apart, all just as ridiculous.

This one really peeved me:
http://www.thesentinel.com/285364623414684.php

I did enjoy reading this one, though:
Gun Controllers: A Specious Species

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[sinker 0]

Quote

The sad thing is I had several more articles from that very same day; all just as easily torn apart, all just as ridiculous.

This one really peeved me:
http://www.thesentinel.com/285364623414684.php

>>[pauses to let bp subside to pre-stroke levels]... and where are all the f*ckin' law-suits against knife makers from the victims (and families) of stabbings?



I did enjoy reading this one, though:
Gun Controllers: A Specious Species

>>yes, the second one there was much better. Have you a copy of Gun Facts? If not, get yourselv a copy at...

http://www.gunfacts.info/

many leftist gun grabbers would do well to get themselves copies as well....

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Kennedy 0]

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Some of us local citizens were shocked to discover, at the Cheverly Town Council meeting on April 14, that Wal-Mart is intent on moving into Capital Plaza. More shocking was that the Capital Plaza landlords have never asked whether this new Wal-Mart plans to sell guns and liquor.

Oh, heaven forbid a retailer should sell things people want to buy.

There are already ten Wal-Marts within 25 miles of zip code 20785 – to date, inner Prince George's County suburbs and Potomac, Maryland, are the holdouts – and they all sell guns. I called all the local stores. Several polite personnel volunteered that they don't sell handguns – "just long guns," or "muzzleloaders" -- probably a good sign. But they all sell ammunition, including ammunition for handguns.

Maybe it's worth mentioning how many millios of people live within 25 miles of 20785. Is it really so hard to understand that 25 miles in a major metro area is a LONG way to travel?

Why is it a good sign that retailers are afraid to sell legal goods?

Most types of handgun ammunition can also be used in some type of rifle. Personally I've never owned a 9mm handgun, but for a short time I had a cheap 9mm carbine (that's a short rifle for the uneducated).

Selling bullets is no trifling issue. Wal-Mart has been sued across the nation for homicides and suicides with its guns and its bullets. In one case where right finally prevailed, Florida widow Sandra Coker, whose husband was killed by two minors using bullets illegally sold to them by Wal-Mart, won a $2 million verdict against the company in 1998. The Florida Supreme Court found Wal-Mart negligent in selling the handgun ammunition to two teenagers who then used the .32 caliber bullets in a robbery and murder at a Pensacola auto parts store. The two teens ended up on death row. Mrs. Coker sued Wal-Mart over her husband's death. Lower courts found for her – and Wal-Mart, having sold bullets to minors, still appealed all the way to the state Supreme Court, presumably hoping that the victim's family would tire.

So what's the problem? The store broke the law, got sued, and lost. isn't that how things are supposed to work?

Frequently the company's platoons have won through in a raft of judicial rulings. When bullets bought in a Pennsylvania Wal-Mart were used on the premises in attempted murder and suicide, the store was still held not negligent: "A Wal-Mart employee who sued the store for selling bullets to her estranged husband that he used to shoot her in the head just minutes later has lost her bid to revive a negligence suit that said the attack should have been prevented," even though the store knew about the domestic situation, knew the parties were in the store, and sold the bullets anyway.

If the wife herself didn't know he was going to shoot her, how is the store supposed to know?

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1109859535448

The defense argument, which won, was that Wal-Mart's selling the shooter bullets was not the proximate cause of the shootings. So -- you're in the store, employed by the store, and shot in the store by somebody known to the store who just bought the bullets there, and that's still not "proximate"? No wonder we need tort reform.

Hey moron, the key word in this case is "cause," not "proximate."

Do I really need to go into how ridiculous lawsuits against manufacturers for criminal product misuse goes against hundreds of years of jurisprudence, not to mention common sense?

Speaking of defenders, Wal-Mart did not send representatives to the Town Council meeting. The Nellis Corporation, Capital Plaza's landlord, was represented by president Randall Levitt and attorney Larry Taub from law firm O'Malley, Miles, Nylen & Gilmore. Concerned citizens included several of us from a new civic group named Progressive Cheverly.

So private entities are guilty until proven innocent unless they bow to your whims?

Levitt said that Nellis' limited partnership, the landlord, initiated the policy of no long-term leases more than five years ago. (Small stores in Capital Plaza struggled for years on month-to-month leases, pretty much ensuring that no thriving strip could develop.) Negotiations with Mal-Mart began a year ago, he said, and Wal-Mart signed a lease "that exceeds 50 years" in October 2004. Responding to questions from Dan Smith of Cheverly about an "escape clause," Levitt said the parties are "both past that stage now." Madeleine Golde, a Progressive Cheverly co-chair, asked whether Wal-Mart might still back out. Levitt said rather smugly that "If they do, they'll have to pay us a lot of rent over the next 20 years."

Does a landlord have the right to set his own leasing policies (within the scope of the law)? Is it possible that some of your stuck up residents are too good to shop at piddly little start up stores?

Also in response to questions, Levitt said that no environmental impact study has been done and that there was no discussion of guns and liquor. It didn't come up in the negotiations.

Wal-Mart applied for its first Capital Plaza permit from Prince George's Department of Environmental Resources in March 2003 and has applied for at least a dozen permits, the most recent on April 12. Regrettably, the company did not invite citizen input on community standards.

Vote with your pocketbooks. If your nubers are big enough to matter, the store will respond.

But communication is not always the name of the game. Here is a fairly typical Internet post from a gun customer (http://www.packing.org/news/article.jsp/5397):

"I recently bought a couple of boxes of .38 ammo at Wal-Mart. The cash register on one purchase [sic] asked if I was 21 and on the other purchase asked if they were for a handgun. The clerk never asked, he just punched it through. I wonder more about the second question than the first. Any ideas?"

I can't even tell what this hack is bitching about here. Not exactly a strong closing.

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/12801107p-13651557c.html

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Editorial: Free-fire zone
Welcome to Florida, the Hail of Lead state

Published 2:15 am PDT Thursday, April 28, 2005
The Florida Legislature has enacted, and Gov. Jeb Bush has signed, a law allowing people to use deadly force - including guns - in public places when they face a life-threatening situation. (Florida law already allows such discretion in the home and in workplaces.) Some police chiefs are worried about the consequences, and well they should.

They can't even get the facts straight, I wonder how they'll do on logic later...

The law has always allowed citizens to use deadly force, including guns, in public. The difference now is that the "duty to retreat" has been changed. The option has always been there.

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People have a right to defend themselves. But under this law, unless gun owners - there are many in Florida, where carrying a concealed weapon is legal - exercise clear judgment and remarkable restraint, innocent bystanders could become victims. So could people whom an armed citizen wrongly assumes to be a threat. And in the latter case, who will be held liable for the possibly fatal consequences of a faulty judgment?

Gun owners exercise "clear judgment and remarkable restraint" every day. This new law will not change that. The new law will also not change the fact that people with CCW licenses are more law abiding than the rest of the public. It will also not change that people with licenses are less likely to hit bystanders than police officers.

Liability laws have not changed in the slightest. If a person's acts were not reasonable and resulted in inuries, they are liable for the outcome.

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Now that Florida has given citizens the right to use lethal force in public, the National Rifle Association, not surprisingly, says it will carry this battle to every state.

Nothing new has been "given" to citizens. I guess facts are not a strong point for the Sacramento Bee.

Also, the NRA and other self defense advocate will not have to carry the fight to EVERY state. There are already other states who have a similar law on the books and have had no problems.

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If it succeeds, sooner or later those who argue that an armed society is a safer society are likely to have their dubious theory put to the test.

Well, states with higher gun ownership rates have lower crime rates, and crime has dropped in states that have enacted right-to-carry legislation. The theory has been put to the test, and there is nothing dubious about it. I can't wait to show how this is just one more instance of irrational anti-gun "blood running in the streets" paranoia.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/25/Southpinellas/Police_arm_themselves.shtml

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...
"Our cities are not combat zones, but when you arm the police with assault rifles, you run the risk of turning them into combat zones," said Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center in Washington, D.C. "I doubt there very many communities outside Iraq where you need that kind of firepower."

So Mr Diaz believes arming police officers will turn cities into combat zones? This from the man who has suggested that only police and military should be allowed to own guns? Strange that he trusts them until they seek more effective means to protect themselves and the public.

If there is someone willing to shoot at officers, then the "combat zone" wil exist whether officers are prepared or not.

Would Mr. Diaz prefer reenactments of the North Hollywood shootout, where officers are at a significant disadvantage?

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Diaz, author of Making a Killing: The Business of Guns in America, said much of the trend has to do with marketing. In the 1980s, agencies felt compelled to upgrade standard revolvers with semiautomatic pistols, he said, after one manufacturer, Beretta, landed a high-profile contract with the military. In the 1990s, there was another movement to higher caliber bullets.

Factually incorrect. The law enforcement transition from revolvers to semi-automatics had been happening long before the Beretta contract. Besides, the military was switching from one semi-auto to another.

Also, the military chose a smaller caliber for their handguns (from .45 cal down to 9mm). How did that fuel police departments chosing larger calibers?

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"We call it a spiral of lethality," Diaz said. "It sounds very simple: The bad guys have these guns, we need them, too," Diaz said. "It's not really that simple."
...

I suppose Mr. Diaz really would prefer officers go into situations without more options for how to defend themselves.

Does anyone else find it odd that a spokesman for an organization so dead-set against effective self defense is telling police how they should defend themselves, and the rest of us?

I just can't understand how a group can suggest that only police can be trusted with firearms, but they can't be trusted to choose the best firearms.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Guest]

Hear, hear, f*in' HEAR.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."