mr2mk1g 10
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Mirage63 0
Not to get to far off the subject...................but of that horrible $6.50 a gallon you pay how much is taxes?
I'm sure that someone here can tell the rest of us the % of taxes paid for a gallon of gas in the UK and the % here.
But your correct, it's going to hurt our economy bad if it goes way up.....not to worry though it wouldn't effect the rest of the world if the US economy tanks, not one little bit.
I'm sure that someone here can tell the rest of us the % of taxes paid for a gallon of gas in the UK and the % here.
But your correct, it's going to hurt our economy bad if it goes way up.....not to worry though it wouldn't effect the rest of the world if the US economy tanks, not one little bit.
mr2mk1g 10
Majority of it is tax. Still it kinda puts things in perspective for you guys - especially when people are predicting the total breakdown of your way of life if the price goes any higher. 
Mirage63 0
Thanks for the info..........help me out here. I did a fast google. In Ga we pay %15 in state, local and federal tax on a gallon of gas currently @$2.18 a gallon. (approx .33 per gallon) which makes our gas cost around $1.85 per gallon.
Just so I have a better idea of what you guys are paying, after taxes how much is a gallon, or I guess a liter.
Just so I have a better idea of what you guys are paying, after taxes how much is a gallon, or I guess a liter.
mr2mk1g 10
A gallon of 95 ron petrol in the south west (according to the AA) is 80.9p per liter. That's 367.8p per gallon which equates to $7.06 (I was slightly off with my guess).
73.4% of this is tax so we pay 270p in tax and 97.8p on fuel per gallon. That's $1.88 per gallon on the actual fuel... that’s pretty much identical to what you're paying allowing for fluctuations in regional fuel price here in the UK and compound errors in the equations I've used... especially when you consider you're not buying 95 ron.
Source: http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/fuel/
edit: damnit - shoulda used the national average from that table - would most likely have come out exactly the same as what you're paying... the area I live in appears to be paying the most for fuel out of the whole country.![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
73.4% of this is tax so we pay 270p in tax and 97.8p on fuel per gallon. That's $1.88 per gallon on the actual fuel... that’s pretty much identical to what you're paying allowing for fluctuations in regional fuel price here in the UK and compound errors in the equations I've used... especially when you consider you're not buying 95 ron.
Source: http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/fuel/
edit: damnit - shoulda used the national average from that table - would most likely have come out exactly the same as what you're paying... the area I live in appears to be paying the most for fuel out of the whole country.
rehmwa 2
Quote>-increased incentives for solar-PV
market forces will enable this without the gov
-incentives for biodiesel and alcohol production
market forces will enable this without the gov if it's even a good idea in the first place
-zoning changes to encourage greywater and rainwater irrigation systems
off topic
-gradual CAFE increases
market forces will enable this without the gov
-fuel diversity tax incentives
market forces will enable this without the gov
-alternative power buyback programs
why alternative? for whatever reason, sell back programs - and they already exist
-dual mode hybrid development
market forces will enable this without the gov
-HTGR development and commercialization
market forces will enable this without the gov
-solar DHW tax incentives
market forces will enable this without the gov
-ground loop heat exchanger incentives
market forces will enable this without the gov
-refinery hydrogen reclamation
market forces will enable this without the gov
-tar sand extraction
market forces will enable this without the gov
Government, government and government except for 5 out of the 12, and I bet you meant that you'd like the government to force those 5 also.
Society and the economy is just one big Design of Experiments isn't it?
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
mr2mk1g 10
Will the technology and infrastructure exist at the time that market forces cause people to want to switch? Or will our ecconomies have to go through a period where there is not the tech to replace petrol, but no petrol to power the ecconomy?
Surely it's sound ecconomic planning to entice the scientific and infrastructure providing communities to develop before it's time to actually call on them? The ramifications of not doing so could be the destruction of the very markets we look to for market forces.
Surely it's sound ecconomic planning to entice the scientific and infrastructure providing communities to develop before it's time to actually call on them? The ramifications of not doing so could be the destruction of the very markets we look to for market forces.
billvon 3,131
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>>-increased incentives for solar-PV
>market forces will enable this without the gov
In all cases, that is true. The reason government should get involved is that if it has to happen in a year, when the oil decline hits hard, our economy will collapse. If, through government incentives, it occurs over the course of ten years, we will make it with minimal impact to our economy.
To put it another way - do you want to save money on gas by buying an efficient car, or by not being able to afford gas at all? Would you rather save on home heating by buying solar or by not being able to heat your house? In both ways market forces "solve the problem" of short supply. Doesn't mean you will like it.
Now, does the government have any responsibility to prevent another Great Depression? Given how much politicians talk about economic incentive packages, and how much it depends on a good economy to support itself, I think it does. It is a basic plank of the republican party, for example, that lower taxes encourage economic development and economic development results in more tax revenues. Implicit in that is that the government manages the economy to provide a good tax return.
One last comment:
>>-zoning changes to encourage greywater and rainwater irrigation systems
>off topic
If we are to go to renewable fuel sources, we will need a _lot_ of water for crops. That water has to come from somewhere.
>market forces will enable this without the gov
In all cases, that is true. The reason government should get involved is that if it has to happen in a year, when the oil decline hits hard, our economy will collapse. If, through government incentives, it occurs over the course of ten years, we will make it with minimal impact to our economy.
To put it another way - do you want to save money on gas by buying an efficient car, or by not being able to afford gas at all? Would you rather save on home heating by buying solar or by not being able to heat your house? In both ways market forces "solve the problem" of short supply. Doesn't mean you will like it.
Now, does the government have any responsibility to prevent another Great Depression? Given how much politicians talk about economic incentive packages, and how much it depends on a good economy to support itself, I think it does. It is a basic plank of the republican party, for example, that lower taxes encourage economic development and economic development results in more tax revenues. Implicit in that is that the government manages the economy to provide a good tax return.
One last comment:
>>-zoning changes to encourage greywater and rainwater irrigation systems
>off topic
If we are to go to renewable fuel sources, we will need a _lot_ of water for crops. That water has to come from somewhere.
kallend 2,175
QuoteQuote>-increased incentives for solar-PV
market forces will enable this without the gov
-incentives for biodiesel and alcohol production
market forces will enable this without the gov if it's even a good idea in the first place
-zoning changes to encourage greywater and rainwater irrigation systems
off topic
-gradual CAFE increases
market forces will enable this without the gov
-fuel diversity tax incentives
market forces will enable this without the gov
-alternative power buyback programs
why alternative? for whatever reason, sell back programs - and they already exist
-dual mode hybrid development
market forces will enable this without the gov
-HTGR development and commercialization
market forces will enable this without the gov
-solar DHW tax incentives
market forces will enable this without the gov
-ground loop heat exchanger incentives
market forces will enable this without the gov
-refinery hydrogen reclamation
market forces will enable this without the gov
-tar sand extraction
market forces will enable this without the gov
Government, government and government except for 5 out of the 12, and I bet you meant that you'd like the government to force those 5 also.
Society and the economy is just one big Design of Experiments isn't it?
Market forces can lead to an equilibrium price for all of the above, but the transients may or may not be unbearable on the way to that equilibrium. There are a lot of parts of the system with long time lags built in - typically that leads to instabilities on the way to the steady state. Chaotic solutions are also possible. Control theory, and all that.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Don't you know Chaos always wins in the end?
illegible usually
billvon 3,131
> Don't you know Chaos always wins in the end?
I thought Dr. Evil always won in the end.
I thought Dr. Evil always won in the end.
Mirage63 0
Quote
edit: damnit - shoulda used the national average from that table - would most likely have come out exactly the same as what you're paying...
Thanks for the info.....so it looks like we are both "paying" the same. So in effect your tax situation has forced the average person to not drive gas hogs SUV. The benifit is to the enviroment and taxes your gov. raises and spends (hopefully better than ours)
Amazing that the cost came out so close, although with a free market I guess not.
mr2mk1g 10
The cost for a barrel of oil is set by OPEC... everyone pays the same before tax.
Mirage63 0
Quote
The cost for a barrel of oil is set by OPEC... everyone pays the same before tax.
for the barrel of oil, not for the refined product
On a side note - a great way to save gas money is to buy European and Jap cars rather than your gas guzzling US cars. Same technology as US cars, same size as US cars, same features as US cars, just they have miles better gas consumption. Simple petrol engine - 45mpg. Why? Because we pay thee times as much for gas.
Oh hang on, I see you guys must already be doing this as Ford's announcing today record losses and yesterday GM said they lost 1 billion in the last three months alone.
Seems like the gas hike you guys have over there (which incidentally isn't being mirrored in the rest of the world) is going to hurt your economy real bad unless some of your industries change the way they're doing things.
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