Concealed Carry News

[Kennedy 0]

Ohio Article
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050409/NEWS01/504090342

Quote

Gun law marks its first year

Hamilton County Commissioner Phil Heimlich recently completed 12 hours of gun training and says he will apply for an Ohio concealed handgun license.

"I've always been a strong advocate for gun rights and I fought for the law that allows Ohioans to carry a concealed handgun," he said.

"If you're going to talk the talk, you should walk the talk. That's why I'm going to get a license. I probably won't carry a gun, but I want the option to do so."

Friday was the first anniversary of the Ohio concealed handgun law, marking the end of a year that was significant because of two things that didn't happen.

Ohio didn't return to Wild West shootout days as feared by some, and fewer people applied for licenses than proponents of the law had expected.

Rep. Jim Aslanides, R-Coshocton, who sponsored the legislation, predicted a year ago that up to 100,000 Ohioans would get licenses in the first year.

Last year, 45,497 licenses were issued from April 8 through Dec. 31. Figures aren't yet available for the first three months of this year, which will nearly complete the first full year, but a gun advocate group, Ohioans For Concealed Carry, estimated the current total at about 50,000.

Toby Hoover of Toledo, director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said the number of license holders is less than 1 percent of those eligible.

"That indicates legislators didn't represent the majority of Ohioans when they passed this law," she said. "It confirms to us that most Ohioans don't want to share their public space with people carrying guns."

Officials of Ohioans for Concealed Carry, conversely, said the number of license holders indicates the law is a success.

"Ohioans have applied for licenses at a rate far exceeding other states with recently passed concealed carry reform laws," said Jeff Garvas, president of the Cleveland-based group.

He said Minnesota issued 9,100 licenses, representing 0.17 percent of the state population, in the first year they were allowed in the state. In New Mexico's first year, 2,201 licenses were issued, 0.11 percent of its population.

Concerns that Ohio's law would spark more bloodshed in the Buckeye State have proved unfounded.

Kim Norris of the Ohio attorney general's office said implementation of the law permitting hidden guns "has gone very smoothly."

"We've worked with county sheriffs diligently" to set up the system for obtaining licenses, she said.

Hoover, whose group opposes the law, conceded, "There's been no increase in violence."

"However, we're still concerned because if you increase the public availability of any product, it's going to get more use," she said. "With 45,000 concealed guns, it increases the possibility of people using them in making poor decisions."

Chuck Klein, a Cincinnatian who helped pave the way for the law by filing a lawsuit against Ohio's old prohibition against hidden guns, said he doesn't expect any problems in the future.

"There's never been a bloodbath in any state that permits concealed carry," said Klein, a retired private investigator who lives downtown.

"In Ohio, things have gone exactly as I thought - no problems. There haven't been any shootouts in the streets over parking meters. Decent, law-abiding citizens are going about their business."

Heimlich said neighboring Kentucky hasn't experienced violence in the wake of its concealed gun law and Ohioans shouldn't be worried.

"We pointed to the results in Kentucky and other states ahead of us and said very clearly it would not lead to more crime," he said.

Kentucky has permitted concealed guns for nine years and Rep. Bob Damron, D-Nicholasville, who sponsored the legislation that made them legal, said he's "pleased that Ohio has caught up with Kentucky."

"I think Ohio's experience is going to mirror Kentucky's experience," said Damron, who along with about 80,000 Kentuckians has a license to carry a concealed gun.

"There's never been any indication that allowing law-abiding citizens to carry a gun creates any change in the security of non-carrying citizens. When a government learns it can trust law-abiding citizens, everybody is better off."

Licenses to carry concealed guns in Ohio are issued by county sheriffs. The most approved by any of the state's 88 counties last year was 2,285 issued by Clermont County.

However, that's not necessarily a good indication of how many people in the county are carrying concealed weapons because people can apply for licenses in counties adjacent to their home counties.

"Over 60 percent of the licenses we've issued were to people not from our county," said Clermont County Sheriff Tim Rodenberg. "Many of those people were from Hamilton County."

Rodenberg noted that counties with big populations like Hamilton, Cuyahoga and Franklin required applicants to make appointments, while smaller counties were able to process applicants on a first-come, first-served basis.

"Word got out that, 'Hey, you can get a permit quicker in Clermont County' and here they came," said Rodenberg.

The perception by some that there is a "Wild West syndrome" going on in Clermont County, while inaccurate, has an up side, the sheriff said.

"If the bad guys only look at the statistics, they might decide Clermont County isn't the place to go to perform their mischief," he noted.

Rodenberg said he believes people should be allowed to carry hidden guns, as long as applicants are properly screened and licensed.

"I don't think you have to worry about law-abiding citizens carrying guns," he said. "It's the criminals with guns you have to worry about."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Nebraska Article
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1638&u_sid=1374511

Quote

Concealed weapons shootout coming

Nebraska lawmakers had better hunker down for a gunfight. The Legislature's Revenue Committee voted 6-2 Thursday to advance a proposal, Legislative Bill 454, to legalize carrying concealed weapons in Nebraska. The bill, introduced by State Sen. Jeanne Combs of Friend, would allow Nebraskans to carry concealed handguns if they obtained training and a permit and passed a background check.

That's right, Nebraska, one of only four states left that doesn't have a concealed carry system, now has a serious concealed carry bill in its legislature.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Nebraska Article
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1638&u_sid=1374511

Quote

Concealed weapons shootout coming

Nebraska lawmakers had better hunker down for a gunfight. The Legislature's Revenue Committee voted 6-2 Thursday to advance a proposal, Legislative Bill 454, to legalize carrying concealed weapons in Nebraska. The bill, introduced by State Sen. Jeanne Combs of Friend, would allow Nebraskans to carry concealed handguns if they obtained training and a permit and passed a background check.

That's right, Nebraska, one of only four states left that doesn't have a concealed carry system, now has a serious concealed carry bill in its legislature.

You probably didn't count Iowa as one of the states that do not issue CC permits but you could have. Permits are issued at the whim of county sherifs here in Iowa. In most counties the sherif will not issue a permit unles you can convince him or her you have a reason to carry. So, most requests are turned down in Iowa

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

In most counties the sherif will not issue a permit unles you can convince him or her you have a reason to carry

Perhaps Bob Scherr will change that for all of us.

http://www.bobscherr.com/gun.html

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Ron 10]

I love this part:

Quote

"That indicates legislators didn't represent the majority of Ohioans when they passed this law," she said. "It confirms to us that most Ohioans don't want to share their public space with people carrying guns."

So? Just cause most don't want to exercise their RIGHT does not mean the right should be taken away from those that do.

The the dumbass says this:

Quote

Hoover, whose group opposes the law, conceded, "There's been no increase in violence."

But the says:

Quote

"However, we're still concerned because if you increase the public availability of any product, it's going to get more use," she said. "With 45,000 concealed guns, it increases the possibility of people using them in making poor decisions."

So they will admit it has not happend, but they still think it will....Even though NO state where this has been allowed turned to an old west shootout.

These people should read more.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Kennedy 0]

I noticed the same idiocy/lack of logic/inability to read my first time through, but I thought I'd let someone else point it out.

I wonder if he thinks people don't want freedom of the press because the number of newspapers sold is a small fraction of the population.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[justinb138 0]

Quote

I noticed the same idiocy/lack of logic/inability to read my first time through, but I thought I'd let someone else point it out.

I wonder if he thinks people don't want freedom of the press because the number of newspapers sold is a small fraction of the population.

When I first read the comment in the article, I was thinking about how many people didn't vote last year.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

You probably didn't count Iowa as one of the states that do not issue CC permits but you could have. Permits are issued at the whim of county sherifs here in Iowa. In most counties the sherif will not issue a permit unles you can convince him or her you have a reason to carry. So, most requests are turned down in Iowa

There are still several states with a discretionary issue system. Some, like Alabama are as good as shall issue states. Others, like Iowa, Maryland, and New Jersey are basically non-issuing states.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

That's right, Nebraska, one of only four states left that doesn't have a concealed carry system, now has a serious concealed carry bill in its legislature.

So who are the other 3?

I know California isn't one of them, even though in most counties it functionally is.

[beowulf 1]

I don't think Illinois has a concealed handgun permit

[Kennedy 0]

Nebraska, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Kansas have no provisions for legal concealed carry (to the best of my knowledge).

I believe the "fanny-pack loophole" still exists in Illinois.

Other states restrict CCW to the point that it might as well not exist. These are California, Iowa, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts.
(WDC, PR, and the VI as well)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050412/NEWS03/504120363

Quote

Activist protests citation at park
Man says city violated his civil rights

Bruce Beatty of Luckey, Ohio, who held a party on Saturday to challenge Toledo's prohibition of concealed weapons in city parks, filed a police report yesterday indicating the city violated his civil rights.

The 49-year-old, who was cited for carrying a firearm in Ottawa Park, also spoke with the city prosecutor's office and requested that the case be handled by a special prosecutor so there is no potential conflict of interest.

Last month, Mr. Beatty announced he would take his gun to the park. He wore his 45-caliber pistol in a holster under his jacket. Police did not check anyone else at the gathering, and they gave Mr. Beatty his gun back. He is to appear April 19 in Toledo Municipal Court on the minor misdemeanor.

In his police report, Mr. Beatty contends the citation was issued under the direction of the city administration. Its issuance, he said, is in direct conflict with state law, and he believes his civil rights were violated.

Mr. Beatty contends that the city's prohibition violates the state's concealed-carry law, which went into effect April 8, 2004. The state law specifically prohibits concealed weapons in schools, government buildings, and places of worship but does not mention parks.

Mr. Beatty said there are no signs in the park indicating concealed weapons are banned. Although the city is named in his police report, Mr. Beatty said he may file charges against individuals within city government.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Appeals court says gun law is invalid
Process that got it passed violates state constitution

Three judges of the Minnesota Court of Appeals on Tuesday said legislators left them little choice but to pass judgment on lawmakers' methods when they flouted the state constitution to pass the conceal-and-carry gun law.

The appellate court upheld the decision of a Ramsey County district judge that the 2003 gun-permit law is invalid because legislators tied it to a natural resources bill to ensure passage.

The state constitution limits bills to a single subject. Minnesota courts have thrown out only five laws in Minnesota's 148-year history under the single-subject provision.

Appeals Court Judge R.A. "Jim" Randall wrote that the decision to strike down the gun law was not a condemnation of legislative maneuvering. The court simply could not find a thread connecting the natural resources bill tweaking regulations on fish houses, park fees and littering and the conceal-and-carry gun bill.

"What the Minnesota Constitution requires is germaneness. It does not require the absence of legislative maneuvering to enact unpopular, but germane, bills," wrote Randall, joined by Judges David Minge and Jill Flaskamp Halbrooks.

"This case is about performing the judiciary's constitutional role of upholding the Minnesota Constitution … ," Randall wrote.

The decision keeps on hold a 2003 gun law that made it easier for Minnesotans to obtain gun permits. The 2003 law required the state's 87 sheriffs to grant gun permits to most law-abiding adults compared to the previous law, which required people to demonstrate a need to carry a handgun for their job or personal safety.

The state attorney general's office vowed to appeal Tuesday's ruling to the state Supreme Court, which has the option of allowing the appellate decision to stand. At the Capitol, one Republican House lawmaker announced he would introduce a new gun-permitting bill. Others for and against the gun law said they took seriously the court's warning on the single-subject rule.

"It's a very simple decision and gets at the heart of the matter and follows what the constitution says," said Betsy Schmiesing, who argued the case for the nonprofit and religious groups who oppose the gun law. "They recognized that the real question was, 'Are all pieces of the act pertaining to a single subject?' If you look at all the provisions, the answer you have to come up with is this decision."

Tuesday's ruling affirms Ramsey County District Judge John T. Finley's July 2004 decision. More than two dozen church and nonprofit groups and the city of Minneapolis filed suit challenging the gun-permitting law on several grounds, including religious freedom. Neither the district court nor the appeals court ruled on the religious arguments.

More than 25,000 permits, each good for five years, were issued during the 13 months the 2003 law was valid. The state saw a 70 percent increase in gun permits, from 12,800 in 2002 to more than 20,000 in 2003.

Since Finley's ruling, law enforcement agencies have been issuing permits under the older, more discretionary, law. Permits issued under the 2003 law remain valid.

Gun advocates and the state attorney general have argued that lawmakers didn't dupe the voters when they passed the conceal-and-carry law because the gun bill generated more media attention and debate than any other measure during the 2003 legislative session.

Lawmakers correctly tied the conceal-and-carry gun bill to rules on snowmobiles and fish houses because they all regulated potentially hazardous devices, Attorney General Mike Hatch argued to the Court of Appeals.

But gun opponents argued Minnesota's controversial 2003 gun law was doomed the day it was passed. Lawmakers who supported it added the gun-permit bill to the natural resources bill in the Democrat-controlled Senate, where the standalone conceal-and-carry bill had stalled in a committee.

Rep. Larry Howes, R-Walker, said Tuesday he will introduce a replacement gun-permit bill to reinstate most of the 2003 gun law.

John Caile, spokesman for Conceal Carry Reform Now, said that while his group was a chief sponsor of the 2003 gun law, it will rely on the Minnesota Supreme Court to review and overturn the appellate court's decision — which he said "smacks of a kind of activism that should concern most of the citizens."

"The court is stepping dangerously on the edge of walking over into the legislation and not determining the constitutionality of the law but the manner in which the Legislature does their business," Caile said.

Assistant Majority Leader Sen. Ann Rest, DFL-New Hope, who voted against the gun measure, said the Senate has taken steps to stop multiple-subject measures from coming over from the Minnesota House.

"I think on occasion there is justification to question some of the omnibus bills and we probably need to deal with those more carefully as well," said Rest.

House Speaker Steve Sviggum, R-Kenyon, said that while he disagrees with the ruling, it serves as a caution.

"The Legislature is watching very, very closely our actions with regard to combining omnibus bills. … This probably … is just heightening our awareness a little bit," he said.

Attorney Marshall Tanick, who represents two churches that challenged the law, said that even if lawmakers pass a conceal-and-carry gun law while adhering to the single-subject provision, his clients have grounds for another challenge.

"Even if they correct the parliamentary issue, they still have to address the religious freedom issues the court did not address," Tanick said.

I'd say the pro-gun guy might be overreacting calling it activism (though it is an odd form of review).

However, the anti-gun people have the same objections and false predicitons that they've had since day one.

I really don't understand religious groups challenging the law. What possible 'freedom of religion' issue there could be related to a CCW law. Afterall, it's not like the state didn't have CCW before...

from another article

Quote

The case against the law was brought by the Unity Church of St. Paul and White Bear Unitarian Universalist Church, joined by the Adath Jeshurun Congregation, the City of Minneapolis and People Serving People Inc.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*