Volunteers to patrol Arizona-Mexico border

[gkc1436 3]

>Geez.. you guys act as if all migrant workers are lazy SOB's who have to be forced to work. Remember all they went through to get here? I would also remind you that most immigrants are hard working and came to this country for a better life.


oop's....
you forgot to use the word illegal in that paragraph

g

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Geez.. you guys act as if all migrant workers are lazy SOB's who have to be forced to work. Remember all they went through to get here? I would also remind you that most immigrants are hard working and came to this country for a better life.


oop's....
you forgot to use the word illegal in that paragraph

g

Why would that change what I said? Are you saying a migrant workers legal status has some effect on their motivation?

[billvon 3,119]

>Are you saying a migrant workers legal status has some effect on their motivation?

From personal experience, the illegal ones run a LOT faster.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

FACT: If you have not followed proper procedures for entering the US, you ARE A CRIMINAL.

FACT: If you are an Illegal Alien, you have no right to work in the USA.

FACT: If you criminally enter this country, you have no right to any social programs' benefits.

FACT: If you criminally enter this country, you should be arrested, punished and deported.

FACT: No whiny-ass socio-econimic/race baiting argument mitigates your CRIMINAL status.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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FACT: If you have not followed proper procedures for entering the US, you ARE A CRIMINAL.

FACT: If you are an Illegal Alien, you have no right to work in the USA.

FACT: If you criminally enter this country, you have no right to any social programs' benefits.

FACT: If you criminally enter this country, you should be arrested, punished and deported.

FACT: No whiny-ass socio-econimic/race baiting argument mitigates your CRIMINAL status.

No argument there, but your statement has no bearing on what I'm addressing. I'm addressing the apparent contention that a persons immigration status has any bearing on their motivation to work. My reasoned opinion is that someone who is here illegally is probably more motivated to work than someone who is here legally because of what they went through to get here and the fact they probably have a greater need for income. Do you agree or disagree?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I'm addressing the apparent contention that a persons immigration status has any bearing on their motivation to work. My reasoned opinion is that someone who is here illegally is probably more motivated to work than someone who is here legally because of what they went through to get here and the fact they probably have a greater need for income. Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree ...

Now just because I'm here legally and am a slacker doesn't mean that your analysis is correct. I'm a slacker because ... well skydiving has a way of changing your views on life ... but also because corporate America has abused and exploited me in every way. I'm a software engineer who's been asked (in past jobs) to sacrific my life and my sanity to make some other bloke rich. It's just not worth it. But some of us legal immigrants did work hard when we first arrived here. But when hard work is reward by exploitation, one needs to question what the fuck we're doing here to begin with.

On a side note, I have a friend from Mexico who's here illegally and we've often joked that his future in the USA is much safer than my future in this country (I fully expect to get deported sometime within the next few years once the INS decides that my time with my temporary work visa ... with no set time limit ... is up). Of course I'm not really complaining. I knew the rules before I got here and sooner or later I'm going to say "fuck corporate America" and go do some other job in some other country which may not pay as well, but at least I won't need to worry about working my ass off to make some other joker rich.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Ron 10]

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>Are you saying a migrant workers legal status has some effect on their motivation?

From personal experience, the illegal ones run a LOT faster.

Nice LOL

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[craddock 0]

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paying his tax's just like the AMERICANS but there's a catch..He never recieveds no tax return for all the hard work,As americans did!

Not all Americans get tax returns. Only those that overpay in the first place. Adjust the deductions via you W-4 depending on you situation and/or if you want to give the Gov. an interest free loan. Judging by the big rush every year April 15th for people to get their taxes done on time, I would say most people do not get a return. The April 15th deadline is only for those that have to pay in.

I am sorry your Dad felt like he paid in too much, but do you know if he really paid in enough?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Gravitymaster 0]

It sounds to me as if you have swerved into a solution for our immigration problems with Mexico. Lets open up the border and then exploit the hell them until going back home or somewhere else is a better alternative. Maybe they will decide Canada is a better alternative.

[freeflyz 0]

I am sorry your Dad felt like he paid in too much, but do you know if he really paid in enough?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

No I was basically saying "stop stereo typing people". Obviously if you read what I wrote, I was not siding with Mexicans and an open border. In fact I'm not happy that Mexicans are allowed to freely come and stay here while the Feds turn a blind eye. But the Feds don't give a shit about you or me. Otherwise they would be doing somthing about this problem instead of letting the private citizens start their own border patrol.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kennedy 0]

Well, if the guy pays his taxes, thinks he's paying too much, and has no chance for a tax return, he should just claim more exemptions, right?

That way he pays less out of pocket, and THE I.R.S. will be sure to pop up and tell him if he owes more.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Gravitymaster 0]

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No I was basically saying "stop stereo typing people". Obviously if you read what I wrote, I was not siding with Mexicans and an open border. In fact I'm not happy that Mexicans are allowed to freely come and stay here while the Feds turn a blind eye. But the Feds don't give a shit about you or me. Otherwise they would be doing somthing about this problem instead of letting the private citizens start their own border patrol.

Oh, I see. If there's one exception, it's called stereotyping. Uh, huh. Other than your anecdotal opinion, do you have any other reason to believe I am wrong in my view?

[freeflyz 0]

He owns his own consruction company.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Your view is that illegals work harder than legal immigrants right? If so, yes you are wrong.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Your view is that illegals work harder than legal immigrants right? If so, yes you are wrong.

Why am I wrong?

[EricTheRed 0]

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I can see you haven't spent much time around the construction industry, sales, computers etc. It's very common for a company to "outsource" their labor.

Actually I do spend quite a bit of time working with business in all of these sectors. I'm a consultant for a work comp insurance firm. There are strict laws on who gets to declare IC status and if a company gets it wrong they do pay. I'm not going to deny that there is a lot of on-shore outsourcing going on (hell, I was in that position for a couple of years myself) but when it happens it's usually legit. I was just saying the tax laws are set up to encourage someone to actually pay the taxes. In the case of an outsourced IT, most firms won't put someone on 'contract' without a business license and a professional bond, something most illegals are unlikely to have.

Piecework farm labor is a different beast, but there are other factors at work here as well. Consult your local CPA. The bottom line is MOST of this payroll IS reported and the payroll taxes are withheld, forwarded to the IRS and never claimed by the individual that earned the income.

illegible usually

[craddock 0]

So tell me again how he has too much tax withheld? Tell me how he has any tax withheld?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Why am I wrong?

Because you are stereo typing immigrants.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[freeflyz 0]

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So tell me again how he has too much tax withheld? Tell me how he has any tax withheld?

My father after 8 yrs of INS bullshit paper work is a American citizen.He payed into a system that did not pay him back,And did not get goverment help at all,he supported his family on his on his own!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I can see you haven't spent much time around the construction industry, sales, computers etc. It's very common for a company to "outsource" their labor.

Actually I do spend quite a bit of time working with business in all of these sectors. I'm a consultant for a work comp insurance firm. There are strict laws on who gets to declare IC status and if a company gets it wrong they do pay. I'm not going to deny that there is a lot of on-shore outsourcing going on (hell, I was in that position for a couple of years myself) but when it happens it's usually legit. I was just saying the tax laws are set up to encourage someone to actually pay the taxes. In the case of an outsourced IT, most firms won't put someone on 'contract' without a business license and a professional bond, something most illegals are unlikely to have.

Piecework farm labor is a different beast, but there are other factors at work here as well. Consult your local CPA. The bottom line is MOST of this payroll IS reported and the payroll taxes are withheld, forwarded to the IRS and never claimed by the individual that earned the income.

Thanks for the reply. As I said earlier, I am unfamiliar with how farm workers are paid. You are wrong however about a business license and insurance being required to pay someone as an IC. I think you are confusing an IC with a subcontractor. There is a difference. IC's get a 1099, subs don't because they are a seperate entity similar to a Supplier. Obviously, you don't 1099 a Supplier.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Why am I wrong?

Because you are stereo typing immigrants.

That's a pretty dumb answer. You are saying because you think I am stereotyping, that theres no validity to my opinion that illegal immigrants are generally more motivated than legal immigrants? Using your anecdotal example is evidence I am correct.

[craddock 0]

Your going in circles now.

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He payed into a system that did not pay him back

I do this every year! On purpose!

Except in 2000 when Bush gave us a rebate.

If he paid into the system while he owned his own construction company, then he had to have been filing taxes.
If he paid into the system as an Employee, why could he not have adjusted the amount he paid in on his W4 if he felt he was paying to much?

Once again they system pays you back only if you pay in too much in the first place. Judging by the millions of people scrambling to get their taxes done on time every year, I would say there are millions that don't overpay each year.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[freeflyz 0]

He paid into the system 22 yrs as an illegal immigrant.Never ask for assistants in those yrs for the goverment..NOW that he is here legally,is the goverment going to give him (if owed) 22yrs of back tax???? I think not! As most illegal workers take the max out of there tax's to draw unwanted attention from the IRS.Yes there is still FAKE SS #'s out there!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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That's a pretty dumb answer.

Ya I guess you're right. What could I possibly know about being an immigrant? And what could I possibly know about being motivated in my professional and personal life? I guess 41 years of life including 20+ years working in the IT business, working hard enough to be able to own my own home (the bank doesn't own it, I own it) means shit. All praise the mighty Gravitymaster as the rest of us are not worthy of his world-wind wisdom.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over