ChasingBlueSky 0 #26 April 3, 2005 Quoteestion 'are you Christian' is now mandatory for all aspiring corporate pharmacists unless corporate HR departments are completely inept. Government intervention of this nature perturbs me along the lines I mentioned previously. It would be illegal for an HR dept to ask what your religious beliefs are and then not hire you due to your answer. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen. The standard has already been set on what they need to follow. Just like a Dr they take a pledge. They either follow it or get a different job. There are no grey areas with this._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #27 April 4, 2005 QuoteAnd how is exercising one's religious beliefs placing one's own values above those of anyone else? How is refusing to fill a prescription because its use contradicts one's beliefs uncaring, bereft of compassion, or unconfidential? Because if pharmacists would've refused my old roommate birth control when she was 9 or 10 years old, she would've had major complications later in life. Luckily, she didn't have that problem, and she is now pregnant. Birth control isn't used just for contraceptive purposes.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #28 April 4, 2005 QuoteHmm...I don't agree with this for myriad reasons. 1) The customer has a choice to go to another pharmacist to get their prescription. 2) If the government can force a pharmacist to do something against their moral values, what about a doctor? Will Catholics doctors be directed by the gov't to perform abortions next? 3) If the gov't can force pharmacy to carry drugs that are contradictory to the beliefs of its owners, will it next force hospitals to perform procedures contradictory to the beliefs of its owners/sponsors? St. Josephs Abortion Clinic - here at the behest of YOUR government? 4) Will 'Are you Christian?' become a mandatory question for pharmacists desiring to work at chain pharmacies out of fear of lawsuits? Will that be a discriminating factor in the hiring process? No. I can't say as I support that rule at all. If a customer wants a product they can't find at Kmart but can get at Wal Mart then they should go to WalMart. The gov't would have no business ordering Kmart to stock the item. A strawman argument at best. The law is designed so that you can get a legal prescription filled at a pharmacy, which is after all, a service that exists to do just that. No-one would be asking anyone to perform an abortion that wasn't in the business of already doing so. This is the territory of OBS/GYN, and doctors who don't wish to perform them usually don't work in facilities that provide them. I believe also, that non-secular hospitals don't have to provide anything they don't want to, as long as they don't take public money. Basically, the law states that if you decide to work in a pharmacy, just shut up and fill the damn prescriptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #29 April 4, 2005 QuoteAhhh...and when you fire the pharmacist and he/she sues you for religious discrimination, how will you respond? "I don't hire Catholics", "I don't hire Jews", "I don't hire Christians", etc? And how about answering any of the questions you quoted in your post? How about "I fired them because they refused to do the job they were hired for " If that's why they were fired, they don't have any legal recourse for a discrimination suit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #30 April 4, 2005 Any person in the industry with hiring authority that doesn't have that in the back of their mind is an incompetent buffon. Of course one doesn't justify the non-hire for that alone - one finds other reasons if possible. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #31 April 4, 2005 how about a muslim police officer in Canada or the US refusing to arrest a muslim man for cutting off his son's hand after he had been caught steeling, since it is approved in his religion? Would you support that as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #32 April 4, 2005 US: no; Canada: yes. Fuck Canada. Your analogy takes it to the extreme. Of course no. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #33 April 4, 2005 How do you feel about someone working in a gun shop refusing to sell ammunition cos they believe you're going to shoot with it? What would you say to that person? Your arguement belongs in to stone age. These matters were resolved decades ago. The profession has a code of ethics. Follow them, or leave the profession. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #34 April 4, 2005 >I still maintain that the pharmacist shouldn't lose their license. Firing - > perhaps. Transfer to a non-customer service pharmaceutical job - >absolutely. Loss of license - no. I would go along with that. Perhaps they could retain their license with a note attached "non dispensing pharmacist." >The question 'are you Christian' is now mandatory for all aspiring > corporate pharmacists unless corporate HR departments are completely > inept. Government intervention of this nature perturbs me along the >lines I mentioned previously. No. The question is "are you willing to do your job despite your personal beliefs." If the answer is yes, then religion doesn't matter. If it's no, then again, religion doesn't matter - it's that they are unwilling to do their jobs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #35 April 4, 2005 Like Skydekker, I see your point but you take an extreme position. Let's examine it. A gun shop sells mainly: guns and ammo. A pharmacy sells: a plethora of drugs. The pharmacist in question found it morally objectionable to serve one particular type out of...probably hundreds or thousands. The # would probably depend on how the drugs were classified. 1/2 or 1/100 or 1/1000 (approximate on the latter two)....hmmmm...I don't see the two as similar, but then again I deal with #s quite a bit and am more mathematically savvy than most. Me personally, were I a manager within the corporation, would do the following: a) seek to reassign the pharmacist to a non-customer service pharmacist postion b) direct HR to ask all prospective pharmacist hirees if they would have similar problems, though this would sicken me it would be best for the company c) compensate the offended buyer in some manner d) ask all pharmacists in the company if they had similar issues The leftists calling for the pharmacists head are blowing this out of proportion due to the nature of the drugs in question, their anti-life agenda, and utter contempt for the religious views the pharmacist in question espouses. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #36 April 4, 2005 Quote The leftists calling for the pharmacists head are blowing this out of proportion due to the nature of the drugs in question, their anti-life agenda, and utter contempt for the religious views the pharmacist in question espouses. Untrue statement. Firstly, I, and probably many with my opinion, are not necessarily "leftist" in thinking nor "anti-life." I just expect the pharmacist to fill the prescriptions that are written for the patients, without harassing them or interjecting their personal belief structure onto them. It is completely wrong to force another person to bide by your beliefs. We all have our thoughts on life/death and spirituality, it's not his place as a PHARMACIST to try to influence their religious beliefs. Karen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #37 April 5, 2005 QuoteAny person in the industry with hiring authority that doesn't have that in the back of their mind is an incompetent buffon. Of course one doesn't justify the non-hire for that alone - one finds other reasons if possible. I hire people all the time. That is my job. It never enters my mind. It's called being professional and doing your job in an ethical manner. Honestly, it's not that hard. Trust me, there are plenty of other reasons not to hire someone. Most people don't realize they give those reasons away with their answers to behavior based questions._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #38 April 5, 2005 You're right Karen, that was a generalization on my part. Applies to some but not all and definitely not you. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #39 April 5, 2005 Thank you... but I truly wasn't trying to fish for a compliment. I was just defending those with a varying perspective than yours. This is an interesting situation and can be an enlightening debate. But, it needs to stay open to discussion... to do so, then the typical speakers corner responses of "us against them" have to be checked. I think you have some valid points, but I still don't think that I would subject the patient to paying out of pocket by going to another pharmacy or refusing to fill/forward her script. Espcially since it might have been written for dysfunctional uterine bleeding, or maybe she gets severe migraine with menses and by being on the OCP, she's released from that pain. As stated by others, birth control pills aren't just for birth control. The pharmacist IS entitled to his beliefs. And I don't want to discount his morals, but he also chose to be a pharmacist - and as such he needs to take care of the patient or refer her to someone that can... it truly sounds like he did neither. So for the sake of his religious beliefs, he forgot about the patient needs. She is the important one in that relationship. So, anyway - back to the debate Karen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #40 April 5, 2005 I just visited the website for these asshole "Pharmacists." (google "Pharmacists for life"--what a motherfucking misnomer.) This is nothing but abuse of one's professional credential for religious prosthelatizing(sp?). These "pharmacists" should change jobs to the asswipe who rants about the apocalypse on the street corner, or just do us all a favor and fucking kill themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #41 April 5, 2005 Having a bad day? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #42 April 5, 2005 I think it's your turn to bring pie. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
