rehmwa 2 #1 April 1, 2005 If you are in a coma? Who do you want making that life or death decision for you? Government - I'm a freaking nutjob liberal and want the government to arbitrarily decide for everybody regardless of my personal wishes - provided that decision is the one that costs the taxpayers the most and raises taxes. Viva le revolution!! Government - I'm a freaking nutjob religious extremist and want the government to force us take all the costly life saving efforts known to science regardless of my personal wishes - regardless of the cost in emotion or dollars Living will/parents - I have a living will but don't care and want my parents to decide even if it conflicts with the will (Assuming they are still alive) Living will/spouse - I have a living will but don't care and want my spouse to decide even if it conflicts with the will (Even if single, assume you had a spouse for this poll) No Living will/parents - I don't have a living will and want my parents to decide (Assuming they are still alive) No Living will - I don't have a living will and want my spouse to decide (Even if single, assume you had a spouse for this poll) I purposely left off "follow my living will" - maybe they lost it, maybe it's not valid, maybe you just didn't get one done. It's too easy an answer and not the purpose of the poll anyway. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #2 April 1, 2005 One thing I'd want to include was the thought that I'd rather have the family in peace than "my wishes" adhered to slavishly. Because, after all, I'm dead. My parents always said that they wanted to be cremated, unless they predeceased my dad's parents -- then they wanted to be buried because of the heartache it would cause. It's your body. If you feel strongly, then you should choose. But, well, I at least would probably not choose national exposure, pictures, and legal fights over much of anything. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 April 1, 2005 QuoteBut, well, I at least would probably not choose national exposure, pictures, and legal fights over much of anything. You know what? If they could take my carcass and make enough money off of it (sell the organs, sell the rights to the story and movie and interviews) to put my little girl through college, it's ok with me. If I'm brain dead (or at least all the reasoning parts of my brain), I don't really care what I look like on TV. I already missed the chance to see her grow up. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #4 April 1, 2005 That's an excellent point. It's just stuff. But I'd guess that the family wouldn't gain much from lawsuits and fighting -- look at what it's done for the Schiavos and Schindlers Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #5 April 1, 2005 I don't want my parents making the decision, because I know, that even though they know what I would prefer, I think it would be extremely difficult for them to let me go. A parents worst nightmare is to see their children die. I know they could not make a rational decision, even if though know my wishes. (Everybody who knows me at all knows that if I am ever in a completely paralyzed or quadriplegic state, let alone a vegetative state, I want to be released; if my brain is functioning, I'd prefer to be released quickly and painlessly.) However, I can't see me parents consenting to that. Actually, I would think my the best person (even better than a spouse) would be a really good friend who knows exactly what I would want, but I guess that's what a spouse is supposed to be anyways.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 April 1, 2005 The other threads, many people kept putting themselves in the position of spouse or parent, rather than patient. I am hoping this posting changes the focus to the "if I was the patient" mode. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #7 April 1, 2005 QuoteI don't want my parents making the decision... With both parents gone I must depend on my wife to: pull the plug, get a cheap ambulance, haul me off for cremation, and turn me loose on I-30 on the return trip unless they are jumping that weekend.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #8 April 1, 2005 So we have 8 votes so far who have a Living Will and think either their spouse or parents can override their wishes despite that contract. This is very confusing. But no one is yet fessing up to the extreme ends of the political spectrum. I'm a little disappointed. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,589 #9 April 1, 2005 Bill, the living will is testament to what you've (hopefully) discussed with the people who WILL have the ability to make the decision when you can't. It's your contribution to the discussion. However, the spouse/parent/child CAN override it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #10 April 1, 2005 Odd, I thought that a living will's purpose is to define the issue for yourself so that the family would not have to make the decision. As such, specific and binding direction from you to the doctors - thus cutting anyone else out of the decision - for their sake. If I choose to have a Living Will on record I want it followed verbatim. If I want the decision to be in the hands of my spouse, I'll discuss it with her and trust her to do the right thing with my input and not tie her hands with a document that others could use against her. So maybe a private living will which my wife can present to support my wishes but only in the event she needs to carry out my wishes and gets obstructed. Then if she disagrees with me and can't bear to pull the plug (per my wishes), I don't want to put her through that, so she can just keep the document hidden from outsiders but then have to live with that. This seems to be the most effective way to handle my specific position (my wife follows my wishes to best extent that she can deal with them). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,589 #11 April 1, 2005 Pretty much every doctor I've spoken with has said that a living will can be overriden with strong enough feelings by the next-of-kin. Which is why you want more than one person to know about it, because most next-of-kin can be convinced if others confirm what you would have wanted. Here's something I got offline from someone who works in the business (unidentified, so I don't think I'm violating any confidentiality) Quote...even with a clear living will stating your desires, any family members can object and delay your wishes for months or even years in court if they feel as strongly about it as Terri's parents. Perhaps more important than the documentation is open communication with all involved concerning your wishes. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #12 April 1, 2005 What if? someone were to make a video of themself expressing their wish not to be plugged into a machine or to not have feeding tubes inserted. Would this not be a final statement of their wish to just pass on?"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,589 #13 April 1, 2005 Yes, it would. And wills are contested all the time. And the time spent fighting over it in court is time that your wishes aren't being carried out. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #14 April 1, 2005 the majority of doctors will get the permission of the next of kin to pull the plug regardless of what a living will says. They're afraid of lawsuits, and if the person is not able to speak for themselves at that moment, they want to get the consent of someone who is able to take on that role. Ditto with organ donation. You can sign all the donor cards and papers you want. Most doctors still won't take your organs without next of kin consent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #15 April 1, 2005 Quotethe majority of doctors will get the permission of the next of kin to pull the plug regardless of what a living will says. They're afraid of lawsuits, and if the person is not able to speak for themselves at that moment, they want to get the consent of someone who is able to take on that role. Ditto with organ donation. You can sign all the donor cards and papers you want. Most doctors still won't take your organs without next of kin consent. So all the formal actions are nuts compared to just having 'next of kin' that will respect your wishes. At best they are clarifications when 'next of kin' are in conflict. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #16 April 1, 2005 pretty much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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rehmwa 2 #8 April 1, 2005 So we have 8 votes so far who have a Living Will and think either their spouse or parents can override their wishes despite that contract. This is very confusing. But no one is yet fessing up to the extreme ends of the political spectrum. I'm a little disappointed. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #9 April 1, 2005 Bill, the living will is testament to what you've (hopefully) discussed with the people who WILL have the ability to make the decision when you can't. It's your contribution to the discussion. However, the spouse/parent/child CAN override it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 April 1, 2005 Odd, I thought that a living will's purpose is to define the issue for yourself so that the family would not have to make the decision. As such, specific and binding direction from you to the doctors - thus cutting anyone else out of the decision - for their sake. If I choose to have a Living Will on record I want it followed verbatim. If I want the decision to be in the hands of my spouse, I'll discuss it with her and trust her to do the right thing with my input and not tie her hands with a document that others could use against her. So maybe a private living will which my wife can present to support my wishes but only in the event she needs to carry out my wishes and gets obstructed. Then if she disagrees with me and can't bear to pull the plug (per my wishes), I don't want to put her through that, so she can just keep the document hidden from outsiders but then have to live with that. This seems to be the most effective way to handle my specific position (my wife follows my wishes to best extent that she can deal with them). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #11 April 1, 2005 Pretty much every doctor I've spoken with has said that a living will can be overriden with strong enough feelings by the next-of-kin. Which is why you want more than one person to know about it, because most next-of-kin can be convinced if others confirm what you would have wanted. Here's something I got offline from someone who works in the business (unidentified, so I don't think I'm violating any confidentiality) Quote...even with a clear living will stating your desires, any family members can object and delay your wishes for months or even years in court if they feel as strongly about it as Terri's parents. Perhaps more important than the documentation is open communication with all involved concerning your wishes. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #12 April 1, 2005 What if? someone were to make a video of themself expressing their wish not to be plugged into a machine or to not have feeding tubes inserted. Would this not be a final statement of their wish to just pass on?"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #13 April 1, 2005 Yes, it would. And wills are contested all the time. And the time spent fighting over it in court is time that your wishes aren't being carried out. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #14 April 1, 2005 the majority of doctors will get the permission of the next of kin to pull the plug regardless of what a living will says. They're afraid of lawsuits, and if the person is not able to speak for themselves at that moment, they want to get the consent of someone who is able to take on that role. Ditto with organ donation. You can sign all the donor cards and papers you want. Most doctors still won't take your organs without next of kin consent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 April 1, 2005 Quotethe majority of doctors will get the permission of the next of kin to pull the plug regardless of what a living will says. They're afraid of lawsuits, and if the person is not able to speak for themselves at that moment, they want to get the consent of someone who is able to take on that role. Ditto with organ donation. You can sign all the donor cards and papers you want. Most doctors still won't take your organs without next of kin consent. So all the formal actions are nuts compared to just having 'next of kin' that will respect your wishes. At best they are clarifications when 'next of kin' are in conflict. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
