SkyDekker 1,465 #1 March 31, 2005 Looks like the pope's health is deteriorating fast. cnn.com foxnews.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #2 March 31, 2005 He has no living will either I guess he'll just let the Lord decide for him. http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Newsweek/2005/03/07/738224?extID=10032&oliID=213May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #3 March 31, 2005 QuoteHe has no living will either I guess he'll just let the Lord decide for him. Well, that is his Father.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #4 March 31, 2005 QuoteHe has no living will either I guess he'll just let the Lord decide for him. Quote But who gets to decide about removing the feeding tube he now has?"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrunkMonkey 0 #5 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteHe has no living will either I guess he'll just let the Lord decide for him. Quote But who gets to decide about removing the feeding tube he now has? There's a world of difference between PJP2's current condition and Ms. Schiavo's former condition... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,573 #6 March 31, 2005 Absolutely, and, frankly, I think it's a darn shame it's coming at the same time, for all the parallel-drawing reasons that have people making the comparison. They are both humans, too. But that doesn't make the situation the same. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,096 #7 March 31, 2005 >Well, that is his Father. OK, it's not a funny situation - but that was funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ScubaSteve 0 #8 March 31, 2005 There was a storm that produced such heavy rains that the river had exceeded flood stage threatening one neighborhood where this one crotchety old man lived. He ignored the warnings of the police when they came around advising the residents to evacuate the area, his reply to the authorities being that the Lord would provide for him. The floodwaters started rising, getting deeper and deeper. The old man started praying to the Lord asking that God would spare him from the impending flood and shortly after he started praying he was distracted from his prayers by a noise outside of his house, he looked out the door and noticed that the water flooding down his street was now about half a meter deep and the noise that had distracted him was coming from a military truck, the National Guard having been called out to aid in the disaster. The soldiers pleaded with the old man to accompany them to higher ground and safety, but as before with the Police, he rejected their assistance telling them that the Lord would provide. The floodwaters continued to rise, getting deeper and deeper and now the first floor of the old man's house was completely inundated and he was forced to seek safety on the upper level of his home. Continuing to pray, asking the Lord to save him from the flood, he was again disturbed during his prayers by a noise. It was the local fire department emergency workers in a boat just outside his window who also pleaded with the old man to let them take him to safety but as before he told them to go away that the Lord would provide. Well the waters continued to rise and he was forced to climb out the window onto the roof of the house and perched there he continued to pray when out of the blue there comes a Coast Guard helicopter whose crew once again tries to reason with the old man and rescue him from the flood, but once again refused citing his faith in the Lord. So as the waters continued to rise, the old man was swept off of the roof of his house and he perished in the waters. The next thing he knew he was in heaven before almighty God, and he fell down on his knees and cried out "Oh God, why did you forsake me and let me drown in that flood?" God replied, "My dear child, I didn't forsake you, I sent the Police to warn you of the danger, I sent the military to evacuate you, I sent a boat load of firemen to take you to safety, and I even sent a helicopter to rescue you off of that roof, what more did you expect?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #9 March 31, 2005 I'm an ex catholic, and I split a gut when I read that. Wendy, you are right, the general public hasn't taken the time to educate themselves. The situation between the Pope and Terri are not the same. You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #10 March 31, 2005 Yup, that's how my family thinksMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IanHarrop 42 #11 March 31, 2005 QuoteI'm an ex catholic, and I split a gut when I read that. Wendy, you are right, the general public hasn't taken the time to educate themselves. The situation between the Pope and Terri are not the same. You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done. I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide?"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #12 March 31, 2005 QuoteI think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? I believe that was the statement that came out a few days ago. But how long if it's needed, do we keep him on life support? Edit to add: As long as his Father says so!May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #13 March 31, 2005 Quote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? on a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence??____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,584 #14 April 1, 2005 Quoteon a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence?? Every religion has an afterlife, why is reincarnation a special case?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unformed 0 #15 April 1, 2005 Quote on a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence?? I was raised hindu, and while we believe in reincarnation, the religion itself (and i believe buddhim as well) is a very lenient religion. A lot the "rules" are given as guidelines, but which ones are followed depends a lot on the environment. For example: Hindus generally don't eat meat, fish, poultry, etc. We're not supposed to eat (because of cows) and its good to not eat any meat, but that's often not followed. Southern India wats largely fish; and although I know many Hindus, most do eat meat. There are variations of Hinduism as well (ie: Jainism) which are much more strict in their rules. I wouldn't think the religion would have anything to say with whether or not you are supposed to prolong your life with any means possible.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheAnvil 0 #16 April 1, 2005 John Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #17 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? No, Catholics get to refuse extreme artificial measures. And here's the best part, the Pope decides what those are. He recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,584 #18 April 1, 2005 QuoteJohn Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. He strongly believes that he was chosen by god to be the pope and to do that job until he's dead. In his opinion it would be almost blasphemous for him to step down. (And y'know he's infallible, so anything he decides has got to be right, right?)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IanHarrop 42 #19 April 1, 2005 QuoteHe recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. "The use of the feeding tube illustrates a key point of Roman Catholic policy John Paul has proclaimed: It is morally necessary to give patients food and water, no matter their condition. " Comes from this article http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POPE?SITE=TXSAN&SECTION=HOME"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #20 April 1, 2005 I read an article only today that specifically stated the pontif had pontificated that it was OK to withdraw a tube if there was no hope of recovery. Don't have the link to hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 03CLS 0 #21 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteHe has no living will either I guess he'll just let the Lord decide for him. Well, that is his Father. Let's see if his mom is alive or his wife? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #22 April 1, 2005 QuoteJohn Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. I agree, though that has never been done before. They always waited for the man to die. Obviously the advances in medicine in the last couple of decades have seriously altered the scenario. Currently it seems he is making the decision to just stay in his appartment, so that advanced medical care is unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #23 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? No, Catholics get to refuse extreme artificial measures. And here's the best part, the Pope decides what those are. He recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. And he is a Vatican reply about Terry: Vatican Sharply Criticizes Schiavo’s Death The Vatican is denouncing what it calls the "arbitrarily hastened" death of Terri Schiavo as a violation of the principles of Christianity and civilization. Cardinal Renato Martino described the starvation and dehydration following the removal of the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube as a "death sentence executed through a cruel method." Martino said Pope John Paul II was informed of Schiavo's death. The cardinal likened the pope's frail health, including this week's insertion of a feeding tube, to Schiavo's case. Another leading Vatican official said of Schiavo's death, "An attack against life is an attack against God, who is the author of life." -------------------------------- Read that last line. I guess they forget that God is also the author of death as well. I remember when I went to church (I was Catholic), the priest always told us staying alive by machine was wrong when there was no chance of recovery. I guess they changed their minds. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #24 April 1, 2005 Quote" if there was no hope of recovery" Defining what "no hope" is exactly what the TS debate was all about. So stating an absolute term like "no" doesn't really simplify things at all now, does it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gjhdiver 0 #25 April 1, 2005 Quote You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done. I believe that he does. It's probably like the Queen Mother's though, in that the last 20 years of her life, she was workd by two dwarves from inside. Man, he's going to be pissed when he dies and realises that it's all bollocks, and he could have spent 82 years drinking and screwing instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
DrunkMonkey 0 #5 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteHe has no living will either I guess he'll just let the Lord decide for him. Quote But who gets to decide about removing the feeding tube he now has? There's a world of difference between PJP2's current condition and Ms. Schiavo's former condition... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,573 #6 March 31, 2005 Absolutely, and, frankly, I think it's a darn shame it's coming at the same time, for all the parallel-drawing reasons that have people making the comparison. They are both humans, too. But that doesn't make the situation the same. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,096 #7 March 31, 2005 >Well, that is his Father. OK, it's not a funny situation - but that was funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ScubaSteve 0 #8 March 31, 2005 There was a storm that produced such heavy rains that the river had exceeded flood stage threatening one neighborhood where this one crotchety old man lived. He ignored the warnings of the police when they came around advising the residents to evacuate the area, his reply to the authorities being that the Lord would provide for him. The floodwaters started rising, getting deeper and deeper. The old man started praying to the Lord asking that God would spare him from the impending flood and shortly after he started praying he was distracted from his prayers by a noise outside of his house, he looked out the door and noticed that the water flooding down his street was now about half a meter deep and the noise that had distracted him was coming from a military truck, the National Guard having been called out to aid in the disaster. The soldiers pleaded with the old man to accompany them to higher ground and safety, but as before with the Police, he rejected their assistance telling them that the Lord would provide. The floodwaters continued to rise, getting deeper and deeper and now the first floor of the old man's house was completely inundated and he was forced to seek safety on the upper level of his home. Continuing to pray, asking the Lord to save him from the flood, he was again disturbed during his prayers by a noise. It was the local fire department emergency workers in a boat just outside his window who also pleaded with the old man to let them take him to safety but as before he told them to go away that the Lord would provide. Well the waters continued to rise and he was forced to climb out the window onto the roof of the house and perched there he continued to pray when out of the blue there comes a Coast Guard helicopter whose crew once again tries to reason with the old man and rescue him from the flood, but once again refused citing his faith in the Lord. So as the waters continued to rise, the old man was swept off of the roof of his house and he perished in the waters. The next thing he knew he was in heaven before almighty God, and he fell down on his knees and cried out "Oh God, why did you forsake me and let me drown in that flood?" God replied, "My dear child, I didn't forsake you, I sent the Police to warn you of the danger, I sent the military to evacuate you, I sent a boat load of firemen to take you to safety, and I even sent a helicopter to rescue you off of that roof, what more did you expect?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #9 March 31, 2005 I'm an ex catholic, and I split a gut when I read that. Wendy, you are right, the general public hasn't taken the time to educate themselves. The situation between the Pope and Terri are not the same. You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #10 March 31, 2005 Yup, that's how my family thinksMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IanHarrop 42 #11 March 31, 2005 QuoteI'm an ex catholic, and I split a gut when I read that. Wendy, you are right, the general public hasn't taken the time to educate themselves. The situation between the Pope and Terri are not the same. You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done. I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide?"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #12 March 31, 2005 QuoteI think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? I believe that was the statement that came out a few days ago. But how long if it's needed, do we keep him on life support? Edit to add: As long as his Father says so!May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #13 March 31, 2005 Quote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? on a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence??____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,584 #14 April 1, 2005 Quoteon a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence?? Every religion has an afterlife, why is reincarnation a special case?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unformed 0 #15 April 1, 2005 Quote on a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence?? I was raised hindu, and while we believe in reincarnation, the religion itself (and i believe buddhim as well) is a very lenient religion. A lot the "rules" are given as guidelines, but which ones are followed depends a lot on the environment. For example: Hindus generally don't eat meat, fish, poultry, etc. We're not supposed to eat (because of cows) and its good to not eat any meat, but that's often not followed. Southern India wats largely fish; and although I know many Hindus, most do eat meat. There are variations of Hinduism as well (ie: Jainism) which are much more strict in their rules. I wouldn't think the religion would have anything to say with whether or not you are supposed to prolong your life with any means possible.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheAnvil 0 #16 April 1, 2005 John Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #17 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? No, Catholics get to refuse extreme artificial measures. And here's the best part, the Pope decides what those are. He recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,584 #18 April 1, 2005 QuoteJohn Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. He strongly believes that he was chosen by god to be the pope and to do that job until he's dead. In his opinion it would be almost blasphemous for him to step down. (And y'know he's infallible, so anything he decides has got to be right, right?)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IanHarrop 42 #19 April 1, 2005 QuoteHe recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. "The use of the feeding tube illustrates a key point of Roman Catholic policy John Paul has proclaimed: It is morally necessary to give patients food and water, no matter their condition. " Comes from this article http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POPE?SITE=TXSAN&SECTION=HOME"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #20 April 1, 2005 I read an article only today that specifically stated the pontif had pontificated that it was OK to withdraw a tube if there was no hope of recovery. Don't have the link to hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 03CLS 0 #21 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteHe has no living will either I guess he'll just let the Lord decide for him. Well, that is his Father. Let's see if his mom is alive or his wife? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #22 April 1, 2005 QuoteJohn Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. I agree, though that has never been done before. They always waited for the man to die. Obviously the advances in medicine in the last couple of decades have seriously altered the scenario. Currently it seems he is making the decision to just stay in his appartment, so that advanced medical care is unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #23 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? No, Catholics get to refuse extreme artificial measures. And here's the best part, the Pope decides what those are. He recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. And he is a Vatican reply about Terry: Vatican Sharply Criticizes Schiavo’s Death The Vatican is denouncing what it calls the "arbitrarily hastened" death of Terri Schiavo as a violation of the principles of Christianity and civilization. Cardinal Renato Martino described the starvation and dehydration following the removal of the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube as a "death sentence executed through a cruel method." Martino said Pope John Paul II was informed of Schiavo's death. The cardinal likened the pope's frail health, including this week's insertion of a feeding tube, to Schiavo's case. Another leading Vatican official said of Schiavo's death, "An attack against life is an attack against God, who is the author of life." -------------------------------- Read that last line. I guess they forget that God is also the author of death as well. I remember when I went to church (I was Catholic), the priest always told us staying alive by machine was wrong when there was no chance of recovery. I guess they changed their minds. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #24 April 1, 2005 Quote" if there was no hope of recovery" Defining what "no hope" is exactly what the TS debate was all about. So stating an absolute term like "no" doesn't really simplify things at all now, does it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gjhdiver 0 #25 April 1, 2005 Quote You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done. I believe that he does. It's probably like the Queen Mother's though, in that the last 20 years of her life, she was workd by two dwarves from inside. Man, he's going to be pissed when he dies and realises that it's all bollocks, and he could have spent 82 years drinking and screwing instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
wmw999 2,573 #6 March 31, 2005 Absolutely, and, frankly, I think it's a darn shame it's coming at the same time, for all the parallel-drawing reasons that have people making the comparison. They are both humans, too. But that doesn't make the situation the same. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,096 #7 March 31, 2005 >Well, that is his Father. OK, it's not a funny situation - but that was funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScubaSteve 0 #8 March 31, 2005 There was a storm that produced such heavy rains that the river had exceeded flood stage threatening one neighborhood where this one crotchety old man lived. He ignored the warnings of the police when they came around advising the residents to evacuate the area, his reply to the authorities being that the Lord would provide for him. The floodwaters started rising, getting deeper and deeper. The old man started praying to the Lord asking that God would spare him from the impending flood and shortly after he started praying he was distracted from his prayers by a noise outside of his house, he looked out the door and noticed that the water flooding down his street was now about half a meter deep and the noise that had distracted him was coming from a military truck, the National Guard having been called out to aid in the disaster. The soldiers pleaded with the old man to accompany them to higher ground and safety, but as before with the Police, he rejected their assistance telling them that the Lord would provide. The floodwaters continued to rise, getting deeper and deeper and now the first floor of the old man's house was completely inundated and he was forced to seek safety on the upper level of his home. Continuing to pray, asking the Lord to save him from the flood, he was again disturbed during his prayers by a noise. It was the local fire department emergency workers in a boat just outside his window who also pleaded with the old man to let them take him to safety but as before he told them to go away that the Lord would provide. Well the waters continued to rise and he was forced to climb out the window onto the roof of the house and perched there he continued to pray when out of the blue there comes a Coast Guard helicopter whose crew once again tries to reason with the old man and rescue him from the flood, but once again refused citing his faith in the Lord. So as the waters continued to rise, the old man was swept off of the roof of his house and he perished in the waters. The next thing he knew he was in heaven before almighty God, and he fell down on his knees and cried out "Oh God, why did you forsake me and let me drown in that flood?" God replied, "My dear child, I didn't forsake you, I sent the Police to warn you of the danger, I sent the military to evacuate you, I sent a boat load of firemen to take you to safety, and I even sent a helicopter to rescue you off of that roof, what more did you expect?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #9 March 31, 2005 I'm an ex catholic, and I split a gut when I read that. Wendy, you are right, the general public hasn't taken the time to educate themselves. The situation between the Pope and Terri are not the same. You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #10 March 31, 2005 Yup, that's how my family thinksMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #11 March 31, 2005 QuoteI'm an ex catholic, and I split a gut when I read that. Wendy, you are right, the general public hasn't taken the time to educate themselves. The situation between the Pope and Terri are not the same. You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done. I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide?"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #12 March 31, 2005 QuoteI think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? I believe that was the statement that came out a few days ago. But how long if it's needed, do we keep him on life support? Edit to add: As long as his Father says so!May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #13 March 31, 2005 Quote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? on a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence??____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,584 #14 April 1, 2005 Quoteon a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence?? Every religion has an afterlife, why is reincarnation a special case?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #15 April 1, 2005 Quote on a related note.. would a buddhist, or hindu on life support be violating the tenets of their faith (with the associated belief in reincarnation) by excessively holding on to THIS existence?? I was raised hindu, and while we believe in reincarnation, the religion itself (and i believe buddhim as well) is a very lenient religion. A lot the "rules" are given as guidelines, but which ones are followed depends a lot on the environment. For example: Hindus generally don't eat meat, fish, poultry, etc. We're not supposed to eat (because of cows) and its good to not eat any meat, but that's often not followed. Southern India wats largely fish; and although I know many Hindus, most do eat meat. There are variations of Hinduism as well (ie: Jainism) which are much more strict in their rules. I wouldn't think the religion would have anything to say with whether or not you are supposed to prolong your life with any means possible.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #16 April 1, 2005 John Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #17 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? No, Catholics get to refuse extreme artificial measures. And here's the best part, the Pope decides what those are. He recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,584 #18 April 1, 2005 QuoteJohn Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. He strongly believes that he was chosen by god to be the pope and to do that job until he's dead. In his opinion it would be almost blasphemous for him to step down. (And y'know he's infallible, so anything he decides has got to be right, right?)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #19 April 1, 2005 QuoteHe recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. "The use of the feeding tube illustrates a key point of Roman Catholic policy John Paul has proclaimed: It is morally necessary to give patients food and water, no matter their condition. " Comes from this article http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POPE?SITE=TXSAN&SECTION=HOME"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #20 April 1, 2005 I read an article only today that specifically stated the pontif had pontificated that it was OK to withdraw a tube if there was no hope of recovery. Don't have the link to hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
03CLS 0 #21 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteHe has no living will either I guess he'll just let the Lord decide for him. Well, that is his Father. Let's see if his mom is alive or his wife? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #22 April 1, 2005 QuoteJohn Paul II should have stepped down a couple of years ago, in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to make it through this or not. I agree, though that has never been done before. They always waited for the man to die. Obviously the advances in medicine in the last couple of decades have seriously altered the scenario. Currently it seems he is making the decision to just stay in his appartment, so that advanced medical care is unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #23 April 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote I think a living will for the Pope is a non-starter. If he refuses treatment isn't he in effect committing suicide? i was wondering that myself... is a 'DNR' statement in effect committing suicide from a catholic point of view? after all modern medicine may be able to save you....? No, Catholics get to refuse extreme artificial measures. And here's the best part, the Pope decides what those are. He recently decreed that even a feeding tube may be withdrawn when all hope of recovery is gone. And he is a Vatican reply about Terry: Vatican Sharply Criticizes Schiavo’s Death The Vatican is denouncing what it calls the "arbitrarily hastened" death of Terri Schiavo as a violation of the principles of Christianity and civilization. Cardinal Renato Martino described the starvation and dehydration following the removal of the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube as a "death sentence executed through a cruel method." Martino said Pope John Paul II was informed of Schiavo's death. The cardinal likened the pope's frail health, including this week's insertion of a feeding tube, to Schiavo's case. Another leading Vatican official said of Schiavo's death, "An attack against life is an attack against God, who is the author of life." -------------------------------- Read that last line. I guess they forget that God is also the author of death as well. I remember when I went to church (I was Catholic), the priest always told us staying alive by machine was wrong when there was no chance of recovery. I guess they changed their minds. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #24 April 1, 2005 Quote" if there was no hope of recovery" Defining what "no hope" is exactly what the TS debate was all about. So stating an absolute term like "no" doesn't really simplify things at all now, does it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #25 April 1, 2005 Quote You would think that after going through all this other shit with Terri, the Pope being close to death, would have had a living will done. I believe that he does. It's probably like the Queen Mother's though, in that the last 20 years of her life, she was workd by two dwarves from inside. Man, he's going to be pissed when he dies and realises that it's all bollocks, and he could have spent 82 years drinking and screwing instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
