Canada: No refuge for U.S. soldier

[jkm2500 0]

I hope that this guy eventually comes back to the US and has to face the music. Oh, thanks Canada...you did the right thing. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/03/24/canada.soldier.ap/index.html

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[tcnelson 1]

it seems as though no one likes an assbag...what i mean is that if you make a commitment, especially to the armed forces of the country that you take advatage of, you might need to follow through with that decision whether you like it or not. in other words, you have a responsibility...

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[shropshire 0]

So you join the armed forces hoping to serve your country. But the trust should go both ways.... you should expect that your country should be run in a moral and legal way.
So when the government fail that trust, surely you should be allowed to disagree and withold your support for them.

I cann't sign up to the concept of My Country Right or Wrong - crap..... you have to use your own moral values!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TheAnvil 0]

Way to go Canada!

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Breezejunky 0]

Whew

And now we get to foot the bill for his appeal too.......

[markd_nscr986 0]

***So you join the armed forces hoping to serve your country. But the trust should go both ways.... you should expect that your country should be run in a moral and legal way.
So when the government fail that trust, surely you should be allowed to disagree and withold your support for them.





He signed the papers.....he should have considered ALL eventualities........as anyone should when they make a long term commitment.....although I have some mixed feelings about parts of the Iraq campaign,I hope he spends a long time in the stockade

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[Guest]

This is the right decision.

If there were a draft, and men were being press-ganged like they were in the 1960s, it would be a different story. Hell, I would support them. BTW I'm on record in this forum as saying that if ever an attempt to reinstate the draft (involuntary military servitude) was made, you will see me in front of the march on DC. I believe that conscription is incompatible with a free society, and is in fact a violation of fundamental human rights.

But they aren't dodging a draft. They took the king's shilling, and now because they don't agree with US foreign policy, they want to decide for themselves which battles they'll fight.

So sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

When you took the oath, you agreed to become a willing instrument of the projection of geopolitical power by military means.

I have no sympathy for these cowards. None.

mh

ed for grammar

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Canuck278 0]

Quote

***

He signed the papers.....he should have considered ALL eventualities........as anyone should when they make a long term commitment.....although I have some mixed feelings about parts of the Iraq campaign,I hope he spends a long time in the stockade

Ditto

Steve
Therapy is expensive, popping bubble wrap is cheap.

[shropshire 0]

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I have no sympathy for these cowards

- without knowing all of that facts that may be a bit harsh!

Sorry, I dont know his motives for not wanting to go to Iraq, if it was because he thought the invasion immoral ... then that does not make him a coward.

On the other hand, I can see the argument that HE wasn't pressed into service and does have some obligation to his CoC (which could be mitigated by the crap he was asked to do!)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

I have no sympathy for these cowards

- without knowing all of that facts that may be a bit harsh!

Sorry, I dont know his motives for not wanting to go to Iraq, if it was because he thought the invasion immoral ... then that does not make him a coward.

On the other hand, I can see the argument that HE wasn't pressed into service and does have some obligation to his CoC (which could be mitigated by the crap he was asked to do!)

I don't think he's a coward for not wanting to go to Iraq - I think he's a coward for not upholding his sworn obligations. It's more than a bit hypocritical for someone to enlist in the armed forces, then decide later that they don't like this or that policy. Don't like US foreign policy? DON'T ENLIST!!!

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[shropshire 0]

Hi,
Once again I sort of understand what you're saying but we join the service to DEFEND our country NOT to wage offensive actions at the whim of our CoCs (the action certainly did not have the popular backing of the UK population). And it's far from certain that Iraq possed a viable threat against either the US or UK, so IMHO the action taken was unjustified and unjustifieable and caused the deaths of untold inocent men, women and kids.
So, that being said (ad nauseam) I can also see why some members of the armed forces could become Conscientious objectors.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[justinb138 0]

Quote

Hi,
Once again I sort of understand what you're saying but we join the service to DEFEND our country NOT to wage offensive actions at the whim of our CoCs (the action certainly did not have the popular backing of the UK population).

He signed up for military service, not military service when he felt that it was appropraite.

Quote

So, that being said (ad nauseam) I can also see why some members of the armed forces could become Conscientious objectors.

Object? Yes. Fleeing the country to avoid your commitments? No.

If he didn't like the possibility of war, he shouldn't have signed up.

[shropshire 0]

Hi again, I find it hard to argue against your points very far but I can still see why one would object about following imoral or illegal orders - that's my sole point really.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Hi,
Once again I sort of understand what you're saying but we join the service to DEFEND our country NOT to wage offensive actions at the whim of our CoCs (the action certainly did not have the popular backing of the UK population).

Bwahaha. You don't get to make that call, and depending on when you took your poll the action would have been quite popular. You don't get to second guess command, you signed up and the guy in charge makes the call, you follow orders. If you don't like it tough titty.

There's no excuse for some pongo deciding he doesn't agree with the war after he's signed up. There's no excuse for claiming to be a conscientious objector AFTER you frigging signed up, you're not one. It's desertion in the face of the enemy, nothing else. The only thing you get to do is refuse to follow illegal orders, and that doesn't include discretion to decide is an entire campaign is to your liking.

Geeze what a joke.

[shropshire 0]

Wot Ho.

Suite your self. I've stated my opinion and stick by it.

Have a great weekend.
Bye

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rickjump1 0]

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Way to go Canada!

Those Canadians were scared shitless that 49,999 more were going to show up like tha last war. Well, maybe not that many this time.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Nightingale 0]

Honestly, would you really want that guy watching your back on a battlefield, though?

[Kennedy 0]

I'd rather he rot in Leavenworth (well, its UK equivalent anyway) for going AWOL, etc.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[justinb138 0]

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Honestly, would you really want that guy watching your back on a battlefield, though?

Good Point.. I had never thought of that.

[jimbarry 0]

"I was in combat the entire time I was there,"
...
"They had no military whatsoever."

So which is it Jeremy?

You volunteer, you serve. You don't pick your battles. And at Bragg makes him a two-time volunteer even...

Someone in the military discovering consciencious objections? Sure, could happen. But in this guy's case, he seems to be objecting this particular foreign policy, not war in general.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

This is the right decision.

If there were a draft, and men were being press-ganged like they were in the 1960s, it would be a different story. Hell, I would support them. BTW I'm on record in this forum as saying that if ever an attempt to reinstate the draft (involuntary military servitude) was made, you will see me in front of the march on DC. I believe that conscription is incompatible with a free society, and is in fact a violation of fundamental human rights.

But they aren't dodging a draft. They took the king's shilling, and now because they don't agree with US foreign policy, they want to decide for themselves which battles they'll fight.

So sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

When you took the oath, you agreed to become a willing instrument of the projection of geopolitical power by military means.

I have no sympathy for these cowards. None.

never thought I would write this, but I agree.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

What made this case interesting is the fact that there was precedent. In 1990 an Iraqi deserter argued if front of the refugee board that he deserted rather than invade Kuwait. He was given asylem.
BTW the current case also tried to get out of the fighting in Afghanistan. He's just a coward.

[Guest]

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What made this case interesting is the fact that there was precedent. In 1990 an Iraqi deserter argued if front of the refugee board that he deserted rather than invade Kuwait. He was given asylum.
BTW the current case also tried to get out of the fighting in Afghanistan. He's just a coward.

That's because the Iraqi faced unspeakble brutality if he returned to Saddam's Iraq. It's a little different here, in that the Canadian review board knows that won't happen with this punk.

When (not if) he goes home, he'll answer to charges that if he is convicted on will result in things like imprisonment, but the most likely outsome is that he'll serve a portion of the sentence and be put out.

There was a time not long ago when his kind were just lined up against a wall and shot. As I've remarked before, Eisenhower himself signed PVT Slovik's death warrant.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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That's because the Iraqi faced unspeakble brutality if he returned to Saddam's Iraq. It's a little different here, in that the Canadian review board knows that won't happen with this punk.

When (not if) he goes home, he'll answer to charges that if he is convicted on will result in things like imprisonment, but the most likely outsome is that he'll serve a portion of the sentence and be put out.

There was a time not long ago when his kind were just lined up against a wall and shot. As I've remarked before, Eisenhower himself signed PVT Slovik's death warrant.

mh

.

I don't know if that entered into the decision or not. I believe the arguement was made in both cases on the illegality of what they were asked to do. That said the temptation (legitemate but not necessarily legal) is always there for a tribunal member to decide based on the consequences of sending someone back.

[AndyMan 7]

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I don't know if that entered into the decision or not.

The key to their decision was that in the case of the American, it was a volunteer army.

Canada has never granted refugee status on the basis of taking part in a war in a volunteer army. That was the crutial test which diferentiates between the American and the Iraqi.

That the US soldiers would undoubtedly take part in attrocities in Iraq was ruled irrelevant, since the US has a good system for policing the soldiers that do take part, and officers that order it.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.