kallend 2,117
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kallend 2,117
QuoteQuoteWhy did it drop in Chicago?
I already answered that...what you have done is failed to answer MY question.
Whats wrong can't admit you don't know?
Why DID the crime rate in the same city go DOWN after the city made eveyone have a weapon in their homes?
If you don't know its OK to say so...But to just contunie to ask a question I have already answered is (while your style) not what I would hope from you.
Come on now John...Why did the crime rate go down in Kennesaw after the gun law?
Nothing to do with the gun law - see John Rich's comments a couple of posts up.
BTW the Kennesaw law has no teeth. Accoring to the city historian, a guy named Jones:
"The law in its final form has many loopholes, so not everyone is required to own a gun.
"There are many outs," he said. "When you look at it, almost anyone could fit into one of the exempted groups."
And Kennesaw Police Chief Dwaine Wilson said no one has ever been prosecuted under the ordinance.
Among those exempt are residents "who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine." Others exempt include the physically and mentally disabled, paupers and those convicted of a felony.
The Kennesaw law contains no clause addressing punishment for violating the law.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Ron 10
All this negative stuff you say, but you cannot counter with any reason why the crime rate in the same city dropped after the law was changed.
The same city, same buildings, same people....But the crime rate dropped, and STAYED low.
If you don't have a good answer John, its OK to say you don't know.
The same city, same buildings, same people....But the crime rate dropped, and STAYED low.
If you don't have a good answer John, its OK to say you don't know.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
crwtom 0
QuoteQuote
If one addresses the causes, the method/vehicle becomes unimportant. And then what would they have to blame?
We're on the same wavelength here. The problem is psychological, I think. If they are not allowed to take the "easy way" out and blame gun control, then instead, they have to turn their attention inward - onto themselves. They would have to blame how adults failed to give this child proper guidance and channel his energy into positive things. They would have to blame their own Reservation management system for failing to address the kid's problems and needs. They would have to blame their own culture of alcoholism, drugs and violence..
yeah right - it's not about guns at all -
it would have made no difference had the kid gone
into the school with a sling shot, a steel pipe, a carving knive or a
tomahawk. Same outcome - at least in the broader spiritual
and psychological of self expression of anger and all that. The
dead - they will understand the troubles of the mind and that not
really the bullets are to blame that busted up their bodies.
Gimme a break!
I mean, it's really a curious picture when staunch gun advocates
get all sobby about the social resposibilities in regard to mental
well being.
It's only because we don't cure the mentally disturbed? Any idea
how many messed up people there are out there that phase in and
out of delusions and paranoias and ride the edges of
self-destruction - especially, in the frayed and disintegrated
social environment of this culture. Sure, it'd be a noble goal to make
all of these tens and hundreds of thousands of nut jobs stable,
content and resposible citizens - but it's a pipe dream in another
galaxy. Meanwhile, non-regulation of guns is also non-regulation
for these people. Anyone whose paranoias, phobias, depressions
and what not spill over into some form of destructive insanity, even
if just temporarily, can act upon it instantaneously, without effort
thanks to the ease and simplicity of using a gun. At least for the
first couple of kills the act is abstract -more like the acting out of
the mind- thanks to the convenient remote operation.
Cheers, T
*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true
Quoteyeah right - it's not about guns at all -
it would have made no difference had the kid gone
into the school with a sling shot, a steel pipe, a carving knive or a
tomahawk. Same outcome - at least in the broader spiritual
and psychological of self expression of anger and all that. The
dead - they will understand the troubles of the mind and that not
really the bullets are to blame that busted up their bodies.
Gimme a break!
Your whole argument is based on the idea that if guns were banned by law, then this guy would not have had access to them.
A false assumption.
The point is that banning guns by law does not reduce access to criminals & crazy people who don't give a s&*t about the law.
(for example inthis case, don't forget that if only police had guns, this guy still would have had access to them. I believe the story is his grandfather was a cop & that's where he got the weapons.)
Speed Racer
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JohnRich 4
QuoteOh, so gun laws are uncorrelated with crime rates. Tell that to your hero, John Lott, whom you have quoted frequently on the topic. I guess it also settles the Kennesaw question.
Gun control laws do not correlate.
You've really got a
What is in play in Kennesaw, GA, where the town passed an ordinance requiring every family to have a gun, is the criminal's expectation of encountering an armed defender. Such expectations make criminals go elsewhere. The same thing is why concealed handgun laws are so effective. It's not so much the gun law itself, but the effect it has on the mind of the criminals. Surveys of prison inmates prove that the thing they fear most is an armed citizen. They want easy, defenseless victims, not people that fight back and can kill them.
Gun control laws, on the other hand, don't work because criminals just ignore them, and the penalties are usually less than for what crimes they're already committing. If they're doing armed robbery, and face 20 years in prison, a minor charge for possessing a gun illegally doesn't mean squat to them.
JohnRich 4
Quotenon-regulation of guns...
Firearms are far from unregulated. Every single gun manufactured is recorded by the government. Every gun sold by the manufacturer to a gun dealer is recorded by the government. Every gun sale by a gun dealer is personally approved by the FBI after a background check of the purchaser. And so on...
Quotethanks to the ease and simplicity of using a gun...
What law would you pass that would stop criminals and crazy people from getting guns?
SkyDekker 1,465
Lol, Switzerland, Ron, JR, ever been there? If and when you where there, how many guns did you see? Many side arms strapped to the people there? lol
Michele, John, nice try, but one of the first suggestions to come out of this thread was to arm teachers and school administrative personel. according to the pro-gun crowd adding guns is the answer, but I don't hear you complaining about that....
Kallend, thanks for pointing out the obvious. Zenister, maybe you should read my post again, never said it definitely would not scale, just said it often doesn't. Hadn't expected that from you.
Michele, John, nice try, but one of the first suggestions to come out of this thread was to arm teachers and school administrative personel. according to the pro-gun crowd adding guns is the answer, but I don't hear you complaining about that....
Kallend, thanks for pointing out the obvious. Zenister, maybe you should read my post again, never said it definitely would not scale, just said it often doesn't. Hadn't expected that from you.
Ron 10
QuoteLol, Switzerland, Ron, JR, ever been there? If and when you where there, how many guns did you see? Many side arms strapped to the people there? lol
I don't see Americans with guns strapped to them either?
Ever been here, or do you just get your ideas from TV
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
SkyDekker 1,465
used to live there.
When was your last time in Switzerland?
When was your last time in Switzerland?
craddock 0
Quoteused to live there.
Where?
That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.
Ron 10
QuoteQuote
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used to live there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where?
It seems he lived in the Old west
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteWhere?
Coral Springs
Michele 1
QuoteMichele, John, nice try, but one of the first suggestions to come out of this thread was to arm teachers and school administrative personel. according to the pro-gun crowd adding guns is the answer, but I don't hear you complaining about that....
Justin, you actually did hear me complain about that. When I said this isn't a conversation about gun control, I meant everyone...not just those who are anti gun. I meant everyone.
I am pro gun...but in this instance, that isn't the issue. The issue is a teenager in crisis, and why that wasn't noted, addressed, and helped.
It's still not about gun control, but it's far easier to yak about that and argue about that and point fingers at that and blame that. And while that's going on, there are more kids in crisis that need help who aren't being seen or noticed.
But oh well...
Ciels-
Michele
~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~
You can pack heat out in the open here in Arizona. Don't even need a permit
jeiber 0
QuoteIt's about dead people, and a child who killed them with great EASE
- no more than a point and a squeeze.
Right, a pipe bomb would have been too difficult to make....
Jeff
Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!
Oh, so gun laws are uncorrelated with crime rates. Tell that to your hero, John Lott, whom you have quoted frequently on the topic. I guess it also settles the Kennesaw question.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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