Ron 10 #76 March 23, 2005 QuoteAlso, I have had a relative murdered by gunshot. Murdered or accident? QuoteLet me introduce you to the phrase "apples and oranges." OK compare having a gun to having an AAD. You have it incase you need it and the shit hits the fan. You try not to let it decide where or what you can do. But you have it just in case you need it...And since you can never tell when you might need it you have it all the times you might."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #77 March 23, 2005 QuoteA weapon does not do any good when it is locked in a safe, but then it becomes easily accessible for a kid who for whatever reason got pissed off at his classmates. Unless you lock it up when you are not at home."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #78 March 23, 2005 QuoteYou can try something like that, but I'm sure I echo the views of millions of Americans when I say: OVER MY DEAD BODY. exactly, like I continued on, it won't happen, your politicians are too well paid off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #79 March 23, 2005 Pretty much got it in one, bro....that's just about a bullseye, right there....Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #80 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou can try something like that, but I'm sure I echo the views of millions of Americans when I say: OVER MY DEAD BODY. exactly, like I continued on, it won't happen, your politicians are too well paid off. Looking at it the wrong way around... the American people would never let it be changed...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #81 March 23, 2005 QuoteLooking at it the wrong way around... the American people would never let it be changed... I know this is where all the macho talk comes in and the I'll kill anybody who tries to take my guns and all that stuff. I have stated before I could care less if you guys have guns or not, doesn't affect me. Just unfortunate for the occasional high school student and teachers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #82 March 23, 2005 QuoteGood grief--living in Europe must be like having the Government play the part of parent/Big Brother. For fuck's sake, don't people in Europe like personal freedom/civil liberties? This socialist mindset is sickening. Correction, living in Europe means living in a free minded world. I love my personal freedom, just f.e., even telling my own chancellor he's an a***hole. That will cost some Euros but, what a goooood feeling: I told him! Go and tell buddy Georgie he is: You will find yourself quickly somewhere else w/o any return ticket. Come to Europe, find out about the personal freedom, in speech... go back to the US and tell your friends. That might open eyes of some people. I swear. To God. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #83 March 23, 2005 Quote"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in Chapter 40 of "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #84 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteLooking at it the wrong way around... the American people would never let it be changed... I know this is where all the macho talk comes in and the I'll kill anybody who tries to take my guns and all that stuff. I have stated before I could care less if you guys have guns or not, doesn't affect me. Just unfortunate for the occasional high school student and teachers. Wrong again - removing or changing an Amendment has to be approved by, if I recall correctly, 75% of the popular vote.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #85 March 23, 2005 didn't they also think the earth was flat and the rest of the universe revolved around it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMax 0 #86 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteI seriously doubt that defective kid with unstable personality would cause as much harm is he did not have an easy access to his parents weapons. It is hard to imagine a 15 years old buying illegal guns through a dealer. But this kid would still have had his LEO grandfather to kill and take the guns from. Any particular incident liker this is a part of distribution. In any distribution there are points that are close to the center (general tendency) and points that deviate. I believe there is a tendency in school shooting problem (kids have easy access to the weapons). You cannot argue against this tendency using examples that deviate from the center. The proponents of gun banning laws always operate by impressive statistics. I would really like to see if there is a correlation between the gun laws and school shooting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #87 March 23, 2005 QuoteI know this is where all the macho talk comes in........ Wrong again......... the first reaction was a very boldly stated "over my dead body" I classify that as macho talk. Like I said, keep your guns, doens't affect me. Plus, they are obviously doing lots of good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #88 March 23, 2005 Quoteuote ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You still haven't explained how you would do it here though. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Make them illegal, except for some very specific uses under very controlled conditions. Get rid of your second amendmend, triple the price with taxes on both guns and ammo. My point is that making them illegal would not make them vanish. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #89 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteAlso, I have had a relative murdered by gunshot. Murdered or accident? Murdered. Shot in the back while in a bar._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #90 March 23, 2005 QuoteMy point is that making them illegal would not make them vanish Very true, they will never vanish. but, they will be less accessable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #91 March 23, 2005 Quotedidn't they also think the earth was flat and the rest of the universe revolved around it? Both of those theories were disproved by the 17th Century... Not that this has anything to do with anything... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #92 March 23, 2005 QuoteBoth of those theories were disproved by the 17th Century... then obviously everything written after that must be true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #93 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuote But this kid would still have had his LEO grandfather to kill and take the guns from. Any particular incident liker this is a part of distribution. In any distribution there are points that are close to the center (general tendency) and points that deviate. I believe there is a tendency in school shooting problem (kids have easy access to the weapons). You cannot argue against this tendency using examples that deviate from the center. The proponents of gun banning laws always operate by impressive statistics. I would really like to see if there is a correlation between the gun laws and school shooting. Of course the gun banners have impressive statistics. They're also quite fictional and it's pretty easy to show how. Yes, this one is unusual in that he killed a cop to get the weapons, but it is the incident at hand. And given how few of them there are, it can't be written away. Or consider Columbine, where the boys had a friend illegally purchase a weapon for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #94 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou still haven't explained how you would do it here though. First step could be to remove GWB and his buddies. Next, to take away any influence/power, the NRA and its members have on the local economy.. So in other words, remove democracy? How very...European of you. GWB was elected by a majority of the people. That may be hard for you to understand, but that's how it works in a two party system like ours. We don't have a parliament make that choice. The NRA is one of the most powerful special interests (along with AARP - the retirees) because it has 4-5 million voting and dues paying members, plus a good number that are sympathetic. Unlike many lobbying groups, it doesn't get money from corporations - gun makers are hardly big industry. So the only way you silence the NRA is again by silencing the voters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #95 March 23, 2005 Quotegun makers are hardly big industry. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #96 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou still haven't explained how you would do it here though. First step could be to remove GWB and his buddies. Next, to take away any influence/power, the NRA and its members have on the local economy.. So in other words, remove democracy? How very...European of you. GWB was elected by a majority of the people. That may be hard for you to understand, but that's how it works in a two party system like ours. We don't have a parliament make that choice. Quote That may be hard for you to understand but, we know what democracy is. We live it daily. And from time to time, we take the freedom of having more than just a_two_party_system. Have a closer look to "our" political system, I do not talk for Europe, just for my country. You will be surprised. But, I doubt you will... *** The NRA is one of the most powerful special interests (along with AARP - the retirees) because it has 4-5 million voting and dues paying members, plus a good number that are sympathetic. Unlike many lobbying groups, it doesn't get money from corporations - gun makers are hardly big industry. So the only way you silence the NRA is again by silencing the voters. Your last 2 sentences are a big joke. Believe it, I don't need to.... dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #97 March 23, 2005 Sorry, you can't say you understand democracy and then suggest that the first step is to silence the will of the people. Removing Bush and banning the NRA wouldn't change a thing about America in this concern either. It would destroy the credibility of the government though. We would need to start over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #98 March 23, 2005 QuoteOK compare having a gun to having an AAD. You have it incase you need it and the shit hits the fan. You try not to let it decide where or what you can do. But you have it just in case you need it...And since you can never tell when you might need it you have it all the times you might. Yes, but I have made skydives without an AAD. Are you saying gun owners are device dependant in regards to life?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #99 March 23, 2005 QuoteMy point is that making them illegal would not make them vanish ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Very true, they will never vanish. but, they will be less accessable. ____________________________ No they would not be less accessible. Look, like most of my friends, I don't own guns & don't give a s&*t about them. I'm not a gun nut. My point is that there are a lot of things where banning doesn't work very well. One example is prostitution. We banned that, and now the prostitutes are virtually inaccessible, right? Anyway, the hundreds of millions of guns already present in people's homes would still be there, even if you made them illegal. They would not vanish, and the people who owned them would NOT comply with the government if the govt told them to give them up. So please don't try to de-personalize it by bringing up politicians, NRA etc. etc. It is the ORDINARY CITIZENS THEMSELVES who simply would not agree to such a law. We have had this freedom since we were a frontier country, and it is very difficult for a government to come along and remove a freedom that the people have always had for centuries. It is not the business of the government to remove freedoms from law-abiding citizens. (Tried that with the Prohibition of Alcohol in the 1920's. Alcohol has & still is killing more Americans than guns ever did, so certain political groups lobbied that the gov't should take away alcohol from us "for our own good." As a result, organized crime got a huge boost. So much for government as nanny.) but I agree with something that someone else brought up: in certain areas some personal freedoms are overly-restricted in America. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #100 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuotegun makers are hardly big industry. lol Got any actual proof behind your smirk? If we're being generous, we're talking a wholesale volume of 1-2 Billion dollars annually. That's not big business. Why do you think gun controllers set on a plan of death by a thousand lawsuits? Why do you think Smith and Wesson bailed back in 2000? This is rather different than the tobacco industry. Let's see you put up now... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 4 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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kelpdiver 2 #97 March 23, 2005 Sorry, you can't say you understand democracy and then suggest that the first step is to silence the will of the people. Removing Bush and banning the NRA wouldn't change a thing about America in this concern either. It would destroy the credibility of the government though. We would need to start over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #98 March 23, 2005 QuoteOK compare having a gun to having an AAD. You have it incase you need it and the shit hits the fan. You try not to let it decide where or what you can do. But you have it just in case you need it...And since you can never tell when you might need it you have it all the times you might. Yes, but I have made skydives without an AAD. Are you saying gun owners are device dependant in regards to life?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #99 March 23, 2005 QuoteMy point is that making them illegal would not make them vanish ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Very true, they will never vanish. but, they will be less accessable. ____________________________ No they would not be less accessible. Look, like most of my friends, I don't own guns & don't give a s&*t about them. I'm not a gun nut. My point is that there are a lot of things where banning doesn't work very well. One example is prostitution. We banned that, and now the prostitutes are virtually inaccessible, right? Anyway, the hundreds of millions of guns already present in people's homes would still be there, even if you made them illegal. They would not vanish, and the people who owned them would NOT comply with the government if the govt told them to give them up. So please don't try to de-personalize it by bringing up politicians, NRA etc. etc. It is the ORDINARY CITIZENS THEMSELVES who simply would not agree to such a law. We have had this freedom since we were a frontier country, and it is very difficult for a government to come along and remove a freedom that the people have always had for centuries. It is not the business of the government to remove freedoms from law-abiding citizens. (Tried that with the Prohibition of Alcohol in the 1920's. Alcohol has & still is killing more Americans than guns ever did, so certain political groups lobbied that the gov't should take away alcohol from us "for our own good." As a result, organized crime got a huge boost. So much for government as nanny.) but I agree with something that someone else brought up: in certain areas some personal freedoms are overly-restricted in America. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #100 March 23, 2005 QuoteQuotegun makers are hardly big industry. lol Got any actual proof behind your smirk? If we're being generous, we're talking a wholesale volume of 1-2 Billion dollars annually. That's not big business. Why do you think gun controllers set on a plan of death by a thousand lawsuits? Why do you think Smith and Wesson bailed back in 2000? This is rather different than the tobacco industry. Let's see you put up now... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
