where are the Marxists?

[SpeedRacer 1]

this is kind of what I thought....there are problems to both systems when taken to extremes. The best societies so far seem to be the ones that are sort of an amalgam between the two.

Often all the bickering between the Republicans & Democrats is often about exactly where that line ought to be within that amalgam.

Of course, the fact that we bitch & argue all the time is actually a sign that this is a good country.
The absolute WORST country to live in is one where the government has a >98% approval rating....."YES...WE ALL LOVE OUR GLORIOUS LEADER!!"

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[GTAVercetti 0]

This may be the most docile conversation I have every encountered in SC.

Of course, that may be because there are no loud proponents of socialism here.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[vmsfreaky1 0]

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I've read Chomsky. Interesting ideas, but I am unable to reconcile a couple of things about it, like:
1) Anarchy;
2) No private property.

He never seems to account for human nature, human selfishness and group dynamics. He also doesn't explain how one can have self-governance by no governance.

I've lived in a capatilist society my whole life and I can't reconcile
1) Greed
2)Total Government control

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I'd recommend that you take a trip to Miami sometime

I'd love to, however I imagine all those cuban refugees i would be talking to dont like castro.
I admire Castro for sticking it the U.S for half a century, dont forget to mention the fantastic health system and research facilities, truly world class. As for working on a harvest team as long as im fed, watered and have a roof over my head i dont mind hard work, but thats just me.

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I don't hear of many people hopping on ramshackle rafts to escape to Australia from New Zealand

No? well they usually travel economy air not by sea, then settle down on our welfare system.

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At least you can say that in Russia, the left got together and made a difference.

Yeah they made a difference, the thing is they didn't do it MY way.

In the worlds eyes (and right wing propaganda) the left has failed, socialism failed. It's got a long way to claw its way back as a viable alternitive to capitalism.

What alarms me is the way we are living, we cannot continue to live like our resources are infinite, this will be the turning point i beleive, when these things start running out and we have to move to a more subsistence lifestyle, things will change, capatilsm will fail eventually, it will just take longer.

Oh and if you've read Chomsky you will realise that capatilsm killed more than Stalin ever did. (not that i am an apologist for Stalin, far from it)

[lawrocket 3]

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I've lived in a capatilist society my whole life and I can't reconcile
1) Greed
2)Total Government control

It's because the second factor is inconsistent with capitalism. Socialism? Yes.

Also, note that the first factor causes the second factor. By that I mean that governments are greedy, too. Greedy for money and greedy for power.

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I admire Castro for sticking it the U.S for half a century, dont forget to mention the fantastic health system and research facilities, truly world class.

Yes they are, for foreigners who pay in hard currency and for Cuban governmental elite. For the commoners of Cuba, they get the lower level care. It's this tier of the medical system that foreigners typically do not see. Cuba does have some world-class treatment for those with the cash or those with the higher-up government position. But not for the commoners.

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I admire Castro for sticking it the U.S for half a century

There's another island country located just off the coast of a major power, if not superpower, that's constantly threatened with military action. Taiwan's done just fine.

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I don't hear of many people hopping on ramshackle rafts to escape to Australia from New Zealand

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No? well they usually travel economy air not by sea, then settle down on our welfare system.

That's right. Cuban peasants cannot afford economy air, or anything that can help them with any degree of safety or comfort. So they take extreme risks to get out.

Is there room for socialism? I think there is room and need for socialism in an economy with a basis in laissez-faire (kinda like how the US is based on democratic principals, but is not a democracy).

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I admire Castro for sticking it the U.S for half a century

yep, they really came out on top didn't they?

tuff sh*t for us I guess.
we're all trying to paddle over there from Miami because um,, umm....the CIGARS!! yep. Cuba has CIGARS!!

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[GTAVercetti 0]

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I admire Castro for sticking it the U.S for half a century

yep, they really came out on top didn't they?

tuff sh*t for us I guess.
we're all trying to paddle over there from Miami because um,, umm....the CIGARS!! yep. Cuba has CIGARS!!

Well I would say embargo would have SOMETHING to do with their condition...but I agree, for the average Cuban, living in Cuba is not so good.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[vmsfreaky1 0]

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It's because the second factor is inconsistent with capitalism. Socialism? Yes

Well, I'll have to disagree here, capatilist countries control their people with a little more finesse, their marketing of greed is quite appealing. But you still have total government control, IMO. Yo! manafacturing consent Yo!

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Yes they are, for foreigners who pay in hard currency and for Cuban governmental elite. For the commoners of Cuba, they get the lower level care. It's this tier of the medical system that foreigners typically do not see. Cuba does have some world-class treatment for those with the cash or those with the higher-up government position. But not for the commoners.

Do you know that Cuba trains and qualifies doctors and health professionals from other south american countries, so they can go back to their respective countries and help their ppl?
I'll also have to disagree here, ppl do get the care they need in Cuba. It may not be what the U.S can give to cashed up ppl, but they still get care, for free.

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There's another island country located just off the coast of a major power, if not superpower, that's constantly threatened with military action. Taiwan's done just fine.

Taiwan has been left alone for 60 years to do as they please, Cuba has had an embargo and constant U.S interfering for much of that time, socialism has not had half as much of a chance to progress in Cuba as capatilism has in Taiwan, It's not a valid argument to compare the two.

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That's right. Cuban peasants cannot afford economy air, or anything that can help them with any degree of safety or comfort. So they take extreme risks to get out.

Hey, lets remember who is causing all this in Cuba, certainly not Castro, it's the fact that Castro has been fucked in the arse by who? the U S A!
Its your embargo and constant interference that has ppl in Cuba driving around in 60 year old cars and strapping bedsheets to fence pailings to get outta there, don't blame socialism, it's the tyrants that have run the USA that are to blame.

I liken capatilism to the monty python sketch with the fat guy who eats so much he explodes, one day the food is going to run out, all our resources will not be exploitable forever, capatilism with fail, it will probably take the destruction of mankind for ppl to see that, but i hope not.

[billvon 3,092]

> yep, they really came out on top didn't they?

There is something to be said for simply outliving all your enemies.

[vmsfreaky1 0]

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I admire Castro for sticking it the U.S for half a century

yep, they really came out on top didn't they?

tuff sh*t for us I guess.
we're all trying to paddle over there from Miami because um,, umm....the CIGARS!! yep. Cuba has CIGARS!!

Cuba are a determined underdog, look what they have put up with from the USA for so long and yet still prospered where they have been let to do so.

I appreciate the FUCK YOU attitude of that regime, embargos, assassinsation plots, invasions, they have been smarter and played the game seriously undergunned and you still can't move them.

Long live the revolution!

[rickjump1 0]

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and you still can't move them...
Long live the revolution!

We don't want to move them. We want to buy them. Until that happens, they could use a revolutionist like you. Have at it.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[lawrocket 3]

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ppl do get the care they need in Cuba. It may not be what the U.S can give to cashed up ppl, but they still get care, for free.

Cuba's powerful gets the treatment, not the poor. Do a google search on Dr. Hilda Molina, a lady who, by all accounts, is an outstanding physician from a Cuban medical school. Explain how her situation fits with your stated facts.

The Cuban system can give cashed up people (and the Cuban powerful) as high-quality treatment as those with cash in the US. Actually, Cuban hospitals will give a foreigner all the treatments, surgeries, etc., that money can buy. I'm not disputing that, nor am I disputing that Cuban med schools give excellent training. However, here in the US, even, poor get treated for free, and get far better care than they would get in Cuba.

p.s. - it ain't free...

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Cuba has had an embargo and constant U.S interfering for much of that time, socialism has not had half as much of a chance to progress in Cuba as capatilism has in Taiwan,

Sure it has. The USSR giving 6 billion dollars per year should have helped. But it didn't.

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Hey, lets remember who is causing all this in Cuba, certainly not Castro, it's the fact that Castro has been fucked in the arse by who? the U S A!
Its your embargo and constant interference that has ppl in Cuba driving around in 60 year old cars and strapping bedsheets to fence pailings to get outta there, don't blame socialism, it's the tyrants that have run the USA that are to blame.

Hmmm. Castro's not driving around in 60 year-old cars. Castro's belly is bigger than that of most Cubans. For some reason, he seems to be living a remarkably pleasant life, with everything a person could want. Hell, that guy has more money and power than even an American CEO.

I'll tell you, if his lifestyle, power and greed is being "fucked in the arse" then give a call to Long Dong Silver and let them know that there are plenty of people, myself included, who would volunteer for that.

Castro's not getting fucked. The Cuban people are. You salute the fact that the embargo hasn't weakened him. But you acknowledge that it has weakened the Cuban people.

I'll admit that the embargo has been GREAT for Castro! Fantastic! Hell, he can blame all the the suffering and economic losses on the embargo. Then, any economic progress can be touted as a victory of the socialist system.

Hey, I want to see the embargo lifted. The sooner the better. I WANT to see the return of Cuban black markets like what they had after the Soviet Union fell. I WANT to see the Cuban people and business see what it is like when Castro has no excuses. I want people like you to see communism and socialism die in the face of a bigger, badder, better system.

Of course, Castro will object to the damage done by the US devaluing Cuban goods and driving Cuban farmers out of business with cheap foods. Cuba's system of socialism will die, but finally, Castro will get it right.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I'd just love to get my hands on some of those Cuban Cigars. Fuck Castro!!!

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I'd just love to get my hands on some of those Cuban Cigars. Fuck Castro!!!

The Cuban cigar is HIGHLY over rated. Excellent cigars come from the Domincan Republic as well.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rickjump1 0]

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The Cuban cigar is HIGHLY over rated. Excellent cigars come from the Domincan Republic as well.

No cigar: go fishing. I heard they did have the best bass fishing in the world.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[SpeedRacer 1]

well, I gotta admit this point: I just don't see why we're carrying on this embargo vs Cuba. It's only screwing the poor, certainly not Castro.

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[tbrown 26]

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That's very interesting.

Looking at history, if there hadn't been a number of fundimental seperations between socialists I think many countries would have been taken by the socialists and the governments changed.

Then again, Lenin's experiment almost worked when he inacted NEP, basically a capitalist compromise with the Kulaks...if he hadn't have had a stroke who knows what would have happened.

Well Dave, all of the modern "Social Democrat" parties in Europe are Marxist in origin. There's been other thinkers and influences since Marx, who after all lived in the 19th century. Which is a lot like the teory of evolution tracing its roots to Darwin, who originated the theory in the 19th century, even though it's undergone some major changes since then.

Most of the historic socialist parties fit into the democratic process and have been voted in and out of office over the years like any other party. Britain's ruling Labor Party right now is Marxist in its origins, though Tony Blair has been quite moderate in his economic policies. France, Spain, Italy, and Germany all have socialist parties that are alive and well. And of course never forget Sweden.

Lenin was the guy who introduced violent revolution into the process and Marxist-Leninism is a historically distinct branch of the socialist movement. He may have been ahead of the curve in realizing that Commie economics didn't work as early as the 1920's and his NEP was a lot like some of the economic liberalizations going on in places like China or Vietnam today. But the troubling thing about Lenin was thhat he was willing to shoot his way into power and held onto power by shooting anyone who got in the way. And a "shootist" state breeds characters like...Stalin.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !