Virginia Carry Legal Conundrum

[Kennedy 0]

Virginia is a Shall Issue state, so anyone who meets the requirements and pays the fees must be granted a license.

Concealed carry into any establishment that serves alcohol is illegal.
However, open carry into those same buildings is legal.

That means, with a permit, you can walk around all day concealed, but before going in to Fuddruckers to eat lunch, you have to tuck your shirt.

It'll be interesting to see how the VA legislature deals with this one.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=47233&paper=0&cat=109

Quote

Gun Enthusiasts Continue to 'Open Carry'

As the gaggle of gun enthusiasts with their assorted handguns sitting openly on their hips dined on hamburgers and chicken tenders at the Fuddruckers restaurant in Annandale, Victor Castellon's eyes grew wide with concern.

"I've got to be careful with these guys because they've got guns," he said, sitting at a nearby table with his girlfriend. "It's like the old West."

Castellon was observing members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, an organization that believes gun owners have the right to carry their guns anywhere — including restaurants like Fuddruckers that serve alcohol.

Under Virginia law, carrying a concealed firearm in a bar or restaurant where alcohol is served is illegal, even if the gun owner has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. But anyone may "open carry" handguns in those establishments, just so long as the gun is visible.
Restaurants and bars may post signs stating firearms are prohibited, but few establishments have done so.

Two weeks ago, a House of Delegates committee killed a bill that would have prohibited restaurants that offer mixed drinks from serving people who are lawfully carrying firearms. The bill, SB 759, had been unanimously approved by the Senate in late January.

"My constituents don't want to walk into a restaurant that serves alcohol and see people carrying guns," said Sen. Janet Howell (D-32), the bill's sponsor. "I've had dozens of e-mails from people who are both angry and frightened about open carrying."

THE GUN-CARRYING members of VCDL resent the implication that they and other Virginia gun owners are not responsible enough to carry their weapons in bars and restaurants.

"I think it's kind of a bizarre thing," said Jim Snyder, VDCL's vice president who lives in eastern Fairfax County. "Why shouldn't a person carrying a gun be able to enjoy a meal? They need to target the bad guys. That law targets the good guys."

VCDL members and other Fairfax County residents who routinely open carry say they are law-abiding citizens merely exercising their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

"We carry guns for self defense," said Philip Van Cleave, the group's president and a software designer. "They're for life and death situations."

VCDL has roughly 2,000 members and represents Virginia's 111,000 concealed-carry permit holders, 16,000 of whom reside in Northern Virginia.

LAST JULY, 13 members of Virginia Citizens Defense League openly carried their handguns at Champps Americana Restaurant in Reston. The manager called in Fairfax County police officers, who incorrectly believed it was illegal to carry firearms in an ABC-licensed establishment.
That incident drew national attention to the gun-carrying phenomena in Northern Virginia that continues on an almost weekly basis.

Three weeks ago Fairfax County police were called to the Red Robin Restaurant in Chantilly after a group of gun owners entered with their guns visible on their hips. They had just finished target practice at a nearby shooting range.

But usually other restaurant patrons either do not notice or simply assume they are undercover law enforcement officers, they said.
"It's still a problem for us sometimes, but most people don't even seem to care," said Rudolph DiGiacinto, a Fairfax gun enthusiast and legal researcher who was present at the Champps and Red Robin incidents. "We're open carrying legally."

When they carry their firearms openly at restaurants, they say they are careful to never drink alcoholic beverages.

"We don't want to make ourselves targets for law enforcement," said Mike Stollenwerk, a Fairfax County resident who carried a visible 9-mm Beretta at Fuddruckers the other night.

Virginia Citizens Defense League's top legislative goal is to allow concealed-carry permit holders to bring their hidden guns into bars and restaurants.

HOWELL'S BILL was defeated by the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety.

Del. Chap Petersen (D-37), one of only two Northern Virginia lawmakers on the committee, said Howell's bill and the proposed lifting of the concealed-weapon restaurant ban both boil down to a balance between the restaurant owner's right to a safe establishment and the gun owners' right to bear arms.

"There needs to be some meeting of the minds between the two groups," he said. "I do believe that restaurant owners should know who on their property has firearms."

Petersen, who voted against killing Howell's bill, said it and other gun control measures resulted in little change during this year's General Assembly session.

But Dave Yates, a Virginia Citizens Defense League member and a Mount Vernon computer programmer disagreed. He said the defeat of stiffer gun control measures marked a victory for handgun owners.

"After everything that got thrown at us, after all the dust had settled, we lost no ground," said Yates, as he walked out of Chinese food restaurant in Chantilly on Friday night, openly carrying one of his favorite semi-automatic pistols.

edit for better pic

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[BIGUN 1,488]

Quote

Back when everyone carried guns on their hips, folks talked a whole lot nicer to each other. Louis L'Amour

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JohnMitchell 16]

I could carry my Colt King Cobra with the 6" barrel. I got the Holster, just no way to conceal it.

[Kennedy 0]

Yeah, but you couldn't possibly carry one of these into the restaurant:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=1043

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Guest]

Virginia (and Maryland) is an oppressive state. When I was there, one had to purchase a permit from the state in order to purchase a firearm.

Tax laws are draconian in Virginia, because they have a lot of people on welfare to support.

It's an oppressive police state because of the close proximity to DC. Glad I'm 3000 miles from those assholes now.

Good riddance.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[kmcguffee 0]

I have a friend, police officer, in Maryland who was in plain clothes but carrying a pistol on his hip. He was wearing a jacket to keep it out of view. At a gas station he took off his jacket and threw it in the back seat just before getting into his car. An older lady, 50-55, ran up to his window and started screaming at him about wearing the pistol.

She asked him why he thought he was allowed to wear a pistol. He said "because I'm a US Citizen". That really got her pissed. She said you can't do that around here. We're not like that. We don't believe in that whole constitution thingy (I added that part ). He finally pulled out his badge and told her to piss off.

It's not just the government out there that is oppressive. Even the local populace sticks there nose in other people's business.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[Guest]

Frackin' A, buddy. It sucked major balls to live there. I can't tell you how glad I am to be gone from that Nanny State.

I think there is a "lowest-common-denominator" factor in places like that; id est, the gov't is geared towards the STUPIDEST AND MOST STUBBORN of its SUBJECTS (yes - SUBJECTS).

I can tolerate a lot of corporate BS, but I do so voluntarily and can leave it behind at any time. What I cannot abide by is government bureaucrats telling me how I'm going to live my life. If I wanted that, I'd live in goddamned NORTH KOREA.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."