Gawain 0 #1 March 5, 2005 For the nay-sayers... 262,000 jobs in Feb. Blowing past a forecast of 225,000. Markets up sharply...oh and factory orders are up too. Here's an article. ...it's on Fox News so it must be a lie...not...here's the CNN article. One funny item: Martha Stewart Omnimedia Inc. stock slid $3.20 (to $30.75), about 10% as founder Martha Stewart returned home from prison. That's kinda funny. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #2 March 5, 2005 DAMN CONSERVATIVES! Now they've infiltrated CNN! - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #3 March 5, 2005 Quote DAMN CONSERVATIVES! Now they've infiltrated CNN! - Jim Anyone can feel prosperous if they borrow enough. Taken a look at the deficits (budget, trade) recently? Taken a look at the $US exchange rates recently?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #4 March 5, 2005 yes, i have; now american products are less expensive for people in other countries to buy. that means that american products will sell more overseas which will in turn drive their prices up. the cycle of economics continues..."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penniless 0 #5 March 5, 2005 Quoteyes, i have; now american products are less expensive for people in other countries to buy. that means that american products will sell more overseas which will in turn drive their prices up. the cycle of economics continues... The devaluation of the dollar has been going on for months. The trade gap continues to grow to record levels. Bush's administration is borrowing at record levels and spending like a drunken sailor. The new jobs are mostly in the service sector, not manufacturing, so your theory doesn't appear to be working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #6 March 6, 2005 it's not my theory...time will tell, as always."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #7 March 6, 2005 Quote it's not my theory...time will tell, as always. Don't worry about it. Before this the Dems were saying the economy was bad because of the lack of jobs, poor sales, and depressed manufacturing. Now that those are all looking good they are grabbing at different things to continue their argument. Remember how Kerry changed the equation for economic growth so that it would show the economy was bad. That is in the "How to be a Democrat" starter kit. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #8 March 6, 2005 QuoteQuote it's not my theory...time will tell, as always. Don't worry about it. Before this the Dems were saying the economy was bad because of the lack of jobs, poor sales, and depressed manufacturing. Now that those are all looking good they are grabbing at different things to continue their argument. Remember how Kerry changed the equation for economic growth so that it would show the economy was bad. That is in the "How to be a Democrat" starter kit. Borrowing your way to "prosperity" with no obvious means of repaying the debt leads to bankruptcy. Bankruptcies are currently running at such a high level that Congress is being pressured by the banking industry to tighten the personal bankruptcy laws.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #9 March 6, 2005 Personally coming from the credit/finance area I hope the laws get a whole lot tighter. I'm also looking forward to the day that interest rates go back up a few points. There are lots of people that maxed out their borrowing potential with the low interest rates that will be declaring bankrupcy and some very nice houses will be on the market at reasonable prices again. Personal bankrupcy does'nt even phase a lot of people anymore. I know a lot of credit companies are freezing limits on former accounts that would have qualified for much higher limits to protect their assests. FICO scores are going to only become more important and with the introduction of the Check 21 a lot more credit applications are being deneyed due to developing histories of floating and bouncing checks.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #10 March 6, 2005 QuoteI'm also looking forward to the day that interest rates go back up a few points. Ugh. I'm not, and I'm not even close to my borrowing potential but I don't want to pay any more for a loan than I have to. Quotethat will be declaring bankrupcy and some very nice houses will be on the market at reasonable prices again. Think so? I'll bet banks will sell houses at market value, they're in the business of making money, not charity. QuotePersonal bankrupcy does'nt even phase a lot of people anymore. Yeah, this is a problem and one that disgusts me. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #11 March 6, 2005 Quote QuoteI'm also looking forward to the day that interest rates go back up a few points. Ugh. I'm not, and I'm not even close to my borrowing potential but I don't want to pay any more for a loan than I have to. Quotethat will be declaring bankrupcy and some very nice houses will be on the market at reasonable prices again. Think so? I'll bet banks will sell houses at market value, they're in the business of making money, not charity. QuotePersonal bankrupcy does'nt even phase a lot of people anymore. Yeah, this is a problem and one that disgusts me. - Jim But you have no problem with an administration that runs the affairs of the nation in the same way.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #12 March 6, 2005 QuoteBut you have no problem with an administration that runs the affairs of the nation in the same way. ... Did I post that? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 March 6, 2005 Bankrupcy auctions around here tend to have houses going at about 10-12% below market value. If anything stops the out of control housing inflation here its going to be a good thing. Property value on some areas is climbing at 15% a year and they are just plain homes. You did'nt get a fixed rate loan? I'm kinda surprized. Its going to be VBR interest people that are in a world of hurt with raising interest rates.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #14 March 6, 2005 QuoteYou did'nt get a fixed rate loan? I'm kinda surprized. I got a variable rate fixed for 5 years and capped after that. Even when that loan reaches its maximum interest rate I'll be better off than most. However, I wasn't referring to my home loan specifically as much as I was any loan - I know that interest rate increases are inevitible, but like most people I'd prefer that they not rise even 1%. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #15 March 6, 2005 Then why aren't the markets worldwide reflecting that anxiety? They aren't. There's a reason. Markets imploded after the decadence of the 80s. The markets also imploded after the shell game of the 90s. Both had the US economy in directly opposite conditions. The 80s, manufacturing was way up, spending heavy, borrowing heavy, lower taxes, lower interest rates, strong dollar. The 90s, manufacturing almost non-existent in growth, spending heavy, higher taxes, higher interest rates, VC investment heavy, steady-yet slightly weaker dollar. There is no magic formula that will fit perfectly. Our government, in my opinion, should never generate a surplus. It should always be a net-gain-zero or deficit everytime.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #16 March 6, 2005 QuoteThen why aren't the markets worldwide reflecting that anxiety? They aren't. Dollar US is steadily falling on world markets. Has been for a long time. That is a reflection of anxiety. Quote There's a reason. Markets imploded after the decadence of the 80s. The markets also imploded after the shell game of the 90s. Both had the US economy in directly opposite conditions. The 80s, manufacturing was way up, spending heavy, borrowing heavy, lower taxes, lower interest rates, strong dollar. The 90s, manufacturing almost non-existent in growth, spending heavy, higher taxes, higher interest rates, VC investment heavy, steady-yet slightly weaker dollar. It took $0.93 to buy 1 Euro on the day Bush took office in 2001. It took $1.32 yesterday (40% more). Similar drop in value against the yen and the GB pound. The US economy is being seriously mismanaged by your hero.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #17 March 6, 2005 I hate to break it to you... Those jobs.. Are crap... I use to make 90k. Now with the market as is I have to work 3 jobs to make that same amount or less. My skills are better now as is my experience. It is an employers market now. Not an empoyee market. As soon as a proper IT union is formed that problem will go away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #18 March 7, 2005 QuoteAs soon as a proper IT union is formed that problem will go away. I don't think I'll be joining that.“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirage63 0 #19 March 7, 2005 Quote I use to make 90k. Now with the market as is I have to work 3 jobs to make that same amount or less. My skills are better now as is my experience. It is an employers market now. Not an empoyee market. As soon as a proper IT union is formed that problem will go away. Ahhhh Rhino, I don't have a clue as to your skills or for that matter if you are in the IT market. But as I hirer of IT techs all I've seen is a market correction. There's ton's more IT folks out there. Sure it sucks if you were there for the "hay day" when a smuck with a MCSE ticket right out of school got big $$. That push all the pay up, and of course drew more people to the field - which of course - push the prices down. A union would fix the problem for a short period of time, but as we have seen the market will move around unions as fast as possible. Bottom line is we still have to pay top dollar for good IT people (which I'm sure you are, and I mean that) which makes it an employee market, but we don't have to pay top dollar at the entry or even mid level. We no longer have to hire people with bad attitudes just because we CAN't find the tech skill set we need otherwise. (employers market) Plus we can lower our charge out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #20 March 7, 2005 QuoteThose jobs.. Are crap... I use to make 90k. Now with the market as is I have to work 3 jobs to make that same amount or less. My skills are better now as is my experience. Problem is in a field that pays that well people flock to that field. As more people are in that field employers can be pick with who they hire. If I have a job and I can hire a guy at 90k or a guy at 40k that will do the same job...who do you think is gonna get a job? The low prices you are bitching about are due to there being to many IT folks now...I still have friends that are making good money in the field..But some have moved on to other things. A Union will not help the matter. QuoteIt is an employers market now. Not an empoyee market. A Union will not change that."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #21 March 7, 2005 QuoteI hate to break it to you... Those jobs.. Are crap... I use to make 90k. Now with the market as is I have to work 3 jobs to make that same amount or less. My skills are better now as is my experience. It is an employers market now. Not an empoyee market. As soon as a proper IT union is formed that problem will go away. Good software guys are still billing over $100 an hour or earning $100K plus as employees. People who could just spell "HTML" were kicked out when sanity returned. Unfortunately the market correction also took out decent people who've since had to deal with their resumes getting lost among piles of less qualified applicants used to the job titles and benefits. The market will correct for this. Artificial attempts to control it will backfire. Given a choice between paying too much for one local employee and a couple of equally qualified ones off shore companies will take the later option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #22 March 7, 2005 Quote But as I hirer of IT techs all I've seen is a market correction. As someone who is currently in IT, and has been before, during, and after the bubble I find your statement to be 100% correct. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #23 March 11, 2005 www.forbes.com/finance/2005/03/11/cz_0311oxan_bankruptcy.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #24 March 11, 2005 QuoteAs soon as a proper IT union is formed that problem will go away. NO, that would really only help Indian employment statistics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #25 March 12, 2005 cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B51750DD1-4428-4027-BD2B-1475F09B8AC8%7D&siteid=google&dist=google&dist= Trade deficit gets worse, US dollar falls further. Great News, Gawain!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
