Michele 1 #1 February 28, 2005 I'm hearing something on the news that the entire Lebanese government has just resigned. I can't find anything yet - can anyone confirm? It has something to do with Harwiri's assassination, but I just can't get more to the story. According to what I've heard, there was a parlament meeting to discuss the assassination, and Omar (something) tendered the resignation of the government there. If this is real, this is HUGE. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2 February 28, 2005 A local radio station has indicated the same thing you have heard."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #3 February 28, 2005 I've heard it elsewhere, too, but can't find a thing on-line. There's something about Syria's troops being removed from Lebanon, but how can this happen? And also all Syrian nationals, too. This is gonna get very complicated very quickly. There was something about the last bombing in Israel (Friday, Tel Aviv) being directed by the Syrians, but I don't know about that. The Lebanese are rising against the Syrian occupation...and I wonder how this will affect the ME? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 February 28, 2005 The Friday blast was said to have been ordered by the Syrian office of I think the Jiadist organization. There were strong signs of it coming from Syria. I think someone just put more gunpowder in an already volitile situation. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #5 February 28, 2005 The pro-Syrian Lebanese government has announced it will resign, mostly due to thousands of people demonstrating against Syria's occupation of Lebanon in spite of a ban on demonstrations. Per NPR. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #6 February 28, 2005 QuoteThe Friday blast was said to have been ordered by the Syrian office of I think the Jiadist organization. There were strong signs of it coming from Syria. it was by the islamic jihad which HQ is located in syria and is funded by syria and Iran. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #7 March 1, 2005 We may be watching history unfold here.... Syria handing over SH half brother. Syrian backed Gov of Lebannon (sp?) resigning? Why? Seems Syria might be trying to clean up there act for fear of the USA attacking. Now is the time for the US to act!!! Take advantage of this and begin negotiations with syria. Give aid to them or something.... Show them we appreciate there actions. Someone on Fox made a comment about giving back part of Isreal (which isreal is willing to do) which Syria once owned. By doing so, make syria officially recognize Isreal as a nation. This could be a huge step in the Middle East. We will have to watch what happens over the next several months. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #8 March 1, 2005 QuoteNow is the time for the US to act!!! Take advantage of this and begin negotiations with syria. Give aid to them or something.... Show them we appreciate there actions. Now is the time for the US to maintain preasure on them to turn over the rest of the Iraqis hiding out there and to stop funding groups like Hammas and Islamic Jihad, not give them aid. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 March 1, 2005 QuoteWe may be watching history unfold here... I'm starting to get the same feeling. Remember the "Domino Theory" used to justify the Vietnam war? That was the idea that communism was spreading from one country to another, causing them to fall in a series like dominos. The U.S. had to step in to stop the falling dominos... And now we have the domino theory working in favor of democracy; Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon... Other middle-eastern dictatorships must be sweatin'... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #10 March 1, 2005 QuoteShow them we appreciate there actions actions such as the terror attack in a night club in tel-aviv that was ordered by the islamic jihad's HQ located and sponsered by syria? QuoteSomeone on Fox made a comment about giving back part of Isreal (which isreal is willing to do) which Syria once owned. By doing so, make syria officially recognize Isreal as a nation. how i love it when people do business with things that are not theirs to give away... why does israel has to pay a tribute to syria for pulling out its forces out of lebanon after (together with the palestinians) destroying this country? O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #11 March 1, 2005 And most of the Bush bashing crowd will never concede it has nothing to do with current US policies. Oh my, first Lybia, then Syria, and it seems that the PA is also following suit after the "great" martyr leaderArafat passed away, too bad it was not sooner.... Michele, don't you wonder the double standard by the Arabs when Arabs kill Arabs, there is never an outrage....Lebanon history is full of genocide, in triple the amounts of what has been the Israel-arab conflicts (including all wars)...."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #12 March 2, 2005 QuoteMichele, don't you wonder the double standard by the Arabs when Arabs kill Arabs, there is never an outrage....Lebanon history is full of genocide, in triple the amounts of what has been the Israel-arab conflicts (including all wars).... I wouldn't limit Lebanon's issues as being strictly Arabs vs Arabs. There were many ethnies, religions, sub-divisions of religions, etc... involved throughout Lebanon's history, as recently as the 70's and 80's (Shiite, Sunni, Maronite, Druze, etc...), intermingled with regional issues involving Syria, Israel, Iran, the Palestinians, Western powers, etc... Quite an interesting country on the historical/geo-political level... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #13 March 2, 2005 QuoteAnd most of the Bush bashing crowd will never concede it has nothing to do with current US policies. Oh my, first Lybia, then Syria, and it seems that the PA is also following suit after the "great" martyr leaderArafat passed away, too bad it was not sooner.... to say that they would have to say Bush is doing a good job. I remember the liberals defending the thug/thief Arafat when I said he needs to go. That they (PA) we just victims. Well they were victims all right, victims of Arafat. seems like freedom is breaking out all over.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #14 March 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteWe may be watching history unfold here... I'm starting to get the same feeling. Remember the "Domino Theory" used to justify the Vietnam war? That was the idea that communism was spreading from one country to another, causing them to fall in a series like dominos. The U.S. had to step in to stop the falling dominos... And now we have the domino theory working in favor of democracy; Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon... Other middle-eastern dictatorships must be sweatin'... But..but.. how could that be? We all know the war was just about oil and making Haliburton and Bush's buddies in the oil business rich. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #15 March 2, 2005 Isreal has said it would give that region back if they could and would be recognized as a nation by muslim countries. Now, if Isreal does give back land, and the US Syria and Isreal sign some sort of treaty, and then the treaty is breached by Syria..... Then of course Syria would know how serious we were. And also, Isreal would be in their right to use the World's second most powerful Air Force ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 March 2, 2005 So, any postings from a larger news source (no thanks if it's CBS of course) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #17 March 2, 2005 QuoteNow is the time for the US to maintain preasure on them to turn over the rest of the Iraqis hiding out there and to stop funding groups like Hammas and Islamic Jihad, not give them aid. I agree. NO aid. Things finally backfired on them. They have been exposed. Can they leave peacefully? I hope so.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #18 March 2, 2005 Quoteseems like freedom is breaking out all over.... It sure seems things are improving. But let's not get democracy and freedom confused. One does not always imply the other. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites storm1977 0 #19 March 2, 2005 Here is a good read on the subject; http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128887,00.html Quote"If you ask me, theoretically, if we can reach an agreement with Syria ... my answer is that from a military standpoint it is possible to reach an agreement by giving up the Golan Heights," Yaalon told the daily Yediot Ahronot. "The army is able to defend any border. This is correct for any political decision that is taken in Israel," he said. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #20 March 2, 2005 QuoteBut let's not get democracy and freedom confused. One does not always imply the other. I'll bite. Name a democracy that is less free than a dictatorship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #21 March 2, 2005 QuoteI'll bite. Name a democracy that is less free than a dictatorship. You missed my point. I am the first one to praise Democracy as being a definite improvement over any kind of dictatorship. But Democracy should be the "Rule of the people", not the "Dictatorship of the majority". For exemple: if a majority of voters decide that women should not be allowed to vote, it is a democratic vote which restricts the liberty of a minority. That is not good enough. That was merely my point. Let's not content ourselves with the establishment of democracies (which is, again, a good thing IMO), but not feel satisfied until any kind of oppression (even from the majority) is indeed eradicated. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #22 March 2, 2005 Quote but not feel satisfied until any kind of oppression (even from the majority) is indeed eradicated. but then the definition of 'oppression' will be watered down further so people can feel put upon - so eradication is impossible sorry - cynical moment there ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #23 March 2, 2005 Quotesorry - cynical moment there And a very legitimate one which I share, if I may add... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #24 March 3, 2005 It sounds so simple if Syria would leave. I got the following off Earthlink News: Quick Syrian Pullout Has Substantial Risks March 02, 2005 6:07 PM EST BEIRUT, Lebanon - A speedy Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon may fulfill the dreams of many Lebanese, but lifting the tight lid Syria has kept on its smaller neighbor carries risks: a security vacuum and possible return to sectarian disputes that bedeviled this country throughout its history. The outgoing pro-Syrian premier even warned that the Lebanese military, built up by the Syrians, could again splinter into warring factions - a comment that angered some Lebanese and prompted the army to insist it is capable of maintaining unity. Another question is how Hezbollah, the anti-Israeli guerrilla movement based in southern Lebanon, would react to the withdrawal of Syria, one of its principal backers. The well-armed Shiite militia, which is also supported by Iran, has so far stayed out of the fray in Lebanon's political crisis - but could feel its position is threatened if Damascus pulls out. The assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, a Muslim, has united Lebanese Christians and Muslims in grief and anger at Syria and its allied Lebanese government, which the opposition accuses of involvement in his killing. As the world pressed on with its demands - President Bush on Wednesday pointedly ordered Syria out of Lebanon in the strongest statement yet - the risk remains that such unprecedented unity could evaporate if Syrian forces leave and Lebanese return to their sectarian-based fractious politics. In a sign of Lebanon's volatility, followers of ex-Prime Minister Omar Karami targeted a rival politician's office in his hometown of Tripoli on Monday, leaving one person dead. Syria has entered the fray many times during Lebanon's recent history by quelling clashes, removing Lebanese political opponents and installing government and military allies. In 1976, the first year of a 15-year civil war, Syrian forces crossed into Lebanon to save Christians from possible defeat at the hands of Muslim and Palestinian-backed leftist forces. In 1987, Muslim leaders requested Syrian troops move into Muslim west Beirut to stop militia street fighting. In July, Syria's top general here intervened after Lebanese troops killed six Shiite Muslim rioters to prevent a riot from spreading into Shiite-army fighting. "If Syria leaves Lebanon uncomfortable, will our situation be stable?" warned Interior Minister Suleiman Franjieh, a staunch pro-Syrian. If Syria withdraws, he added last week, "it could say it is not responsible for security in this country, and tomorrow every party begins to do what it wants - and we know the Lebanese if they do what they want in politics. Within a week we will tear each other up." A Syrian official alluded to possible security breaches. Information Minister Mahdi Dakhlallah said after Hariri's assassination that previous Syrian withdrawals from Lebanese areas "resulted in a security vacuum that led to the explosions." Syria has long acted as a buffer, mediating political disputes and sending security forces to back Lebanese troops. They have also curbed Muslim militants as they did in Syria, a nation ruled by a secular Baath party that sees militant Islam as a threat. Last week, Karami enraged many by saying a Syrian withdrawal and implementation of a U.N. resolution to disarm anti-Israeli Hezbollah militants could reflect on Lebanon's army, which broke apart along sectarian lines during the civil war and was rebuilt with Syrian help to a force of 70,000 after the conflict. The army "is from the people and the people are divided," Karami said. "We've tried this before and the army disintegrated. Should we again go through this experience of this magnitude and damage?" Karami also asked who would disarm Shiite Hezbollah guerillas if Syria leaves. Hezbollah has stayed on the sidelines of Lebanon's recent polarization, but - with Syria's support - it has blocked attempts to send the Lebanese army into its territory in southern Lebanon, along the border with Israel, and refused to disarm until the conflict with Israel is resolved. If an anti-Syrian government comes to power in Beirut and resolves to move its military into the south, Hezbollah could be roused to action. Farid El-Khazen, chairman of the American University of Beirut's political studies department, did not predict a return of civil war-era sectarian conflict. "Never before has Lebanon been as united as it is today," he said. "The unprecedented national consciousness on the issue of Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon has never been as strong since that formation of the state of Lebanon in the 1920s." But As'ad AbuKhalil, a Lebanese political science professor at California State University, warned of possible instability. "This won't be Ukraine of 2004, but maybe Lebanon of 1975," AbuKhalil said, referring to Ukraine's "Orange Revolution" that overturned a fraudulent election and circa-1975 Lebanon, which was wracked by political disputes. But Lebanon's military is sounding optimistic. Armed forces Gen. Michel Suleiman, in apparent response to Karami's comments, said the army "faced grave events and emerged more cohesive to the point that it became a model in national unity."Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #25 March 3, 2005 QuoteThey have also curbed Muslim militants as they did in Syria, a nation ruled by a secular Baath party that sees militant Islam as a threat. and yet, they supprt and fund thos same islamic militants and terrorists when they attack israel. QuoteHezbollah has stayed on the sidelines of Lebanon's recent polarization, but - with Syria's support - it has blocked attempts to send the Lebanese army into its territory in southern Lebanon, along the border with Israel, and refused to disarm until the conflict with Israel is resolved. it is resolved. even the UN which is not exactly known as Israel's best friend had declared that israel as followed the UN resolution regarding lebanon. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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Frenchy68 0 #18 March 2, 2005 Quoteseems like freedom is breaking out all over.... It sure seems things are improving. But let's not get democracy and freedom confused. One does not always imply the other. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #19 March 2, 2005 Here is a good read on the subject; http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128887,00.html Quote"If you ask me, theoretically, if we can reach an agreement with Syria ... my answer is that from a military standpoint it is possible to reach an agreement by giving up the Golan Heights," Yaalon told the daily Yediot Ahronot. "The army is able to defend any border. This is correct for any political decision that is taken in Israel," he said. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #20 March 2, 2005 QuoteBut let's not get democracy and freedom confused. One does not always imply the other. I'll bite. Name a democracy that is less free than a dictatorship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #21 March 2, 2005 QuoteI'll bite. Name a democracy that is less free than a dictatorship. You missed my point. I am the first one to praise Democracy as being a definite improvement over any kind of dictatorship. But Democracy should be the "Rule of the people", not the "Dictatorship of the majority". For exemple: if a majority of voters decide that women should not be allowed to vote, it is a democratic vote which restricts the liberty of a minority. That is not good enough. That was merely my point. Let's not content ourselves with the establishment of democracies (which is, again, a good thing IMO), but not feel satisfied until any kind of oppression (even from the majority) is indeed eradicated. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #22 March 2, 2005 Quote but not feel satisfied until any kind of oppression (even from the majority) is indeed eradicated. but then the definition of 'oppression' will be watered down further so people can feel put upon - so eradication is impossible sorry - cynical moment there ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #23 March 2, 2005 Quotesorry - cynical moment there And a very legitimate one which I share, if I may add... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #24 March 3, 2005 It sounds so simple if Syria would leave. I got the following off Earthlink News: Quick Syrian Pullout Has Substantial Risks March 02, 2005 6:07 PM EST BEIRUT, Lebanon - A speedy Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon may fulfill the dreams of many Lebanese, but lifting the tight lid Syria has kept on its smaller neighbor carries risks: a security vacuum and possible return to sectarian disputes that bedeviled this country throughout its history. The outgoing pro-Syrian premier even warned that the Lebanese military, built up by the Syrians, could again splinter into warring factions - a comment that angered some Lebanese and prompted the army to insist it is capable of maintaining unity. Another question is how Hezbollah, the anti-Israeli guerrilla movement based in southern Lebanon, would react to the withdrawal of Syria, one of its principal backers. The well-armed Shiite militia, which is also supported by Iran, has so far stayed out of the fray in Lebanon's political crisis - but could feel its position is threatened if Damascus pulls out. The assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, a Muslim, has united Lebanese Christians and Muslims in grief and anger at Syria and its allied Lebanese government, which the opposition accuses of involvement in his killing. As the world pressed on with its demands - President Bush on Wednesday pointedly ordered Syria out of Lebanon in the strongest statement yet - the risk remains that such unprecedented unity could evaporate if Syrian forces leave and Lebanese return to their sectarian-based fractious politics. In a sign of Lebanon's volatility, followers of ex-Prime Minister Omar Karami targeted a rival politician's office in his hometown of Tripoli on Monday, leaving one person dead. Syria has entered the fray many times during Lebanon's recent history by quelling clashes, removing Lebanese political opponents and installing government and military allies. In 1976, the first year of a 15-year civil war, Syrian forces crossed into Lebanon to save Christians from possible defeat at the hands of Muslim and Palestinian-backed leftist forces. In 1987, Muslim leaders requested Syrian troops move into Muslim west Beirut to stop militia street fighting. In July, Syria's top general here intervened after Lebanese troops killed six Shiite Muslim rioters to prevent a riot from spreading into Shiite-army fighting. "If Syria leaves Lebanon uncomfortable, will our situation be stable?" warned Interior Minister Suleiman Franjieh, a staunch pro-Syrian. If Syria withdraws, he added last week, "it could say it is not responsible for security in this country, and tomorrow every party begins to do what it wants - and we know the Lebanese if they do what they want in politics. Within a week we will tear each other up." A Syrian official alluded to possible security breaches. Information Minister Mahdi Dakhlallah said after Hariri's assassination that previous Syrian withdrawals from Lebanese areas "resulted in a security vacuum that led to the explosions." Syria has long acted as a buffer, mediating political disputes and sending security forces to back Lebanese troops. They have also curbed Muslim militants as they did in Syria, a nation ruled by a secular Baath party that sees militant Islam as a threat. Last week, Karami enraged many by saying a Syrian withdrawal and implementation of a U.N. resolution to disarm anti-Israeli Hezbollah militants could reflect on Lebanon's army, which broke apart along sectarian lines during the civil war and was rebuilt with Syrian help to a force of 70,000 after the conflict. The army "is from the people and the people are divided," Karami said. "We've tried this before and the army disintegrated. Should we again go through this experience of this magnitude and damage?" Karami also asked who would disarm Shiite Hezbollah guerillas if Syria leaves. Hezbollah has stayed on the sidelines of Lebanon's recent polarization, but - with Syria's support - it has blocked attempts to send the Lebanese army into its territory in southern Lebanon, along the border with Israel, and refused to disarm until the conflict with Israel is resolved. If an anti-Syrian government comes to power in Beirut and resolves to move its military into the south, Hezbollah could be roused to action. Farid El-Khazen, chairman of the American University of Beirut's political studies department, did not predict a return of civil war-era sectarian conflict. "Never before has Lebanon been as united as it is today," he said. "The unprecedented national consciousness on the issue of Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon has never been as strong since that formation of the state of Lebanon in the 1920s." But As'ad AbuKhalil, a Lebanese political science professor at California State University, warned of possible instability. "This won't be Ukraine of 2004, but maybe Lebanon of 1975," AbuKhalil said, referring to Ukraine's "Orange Revolution" that overturned a fraudulent election and circa-1975 Lebanon, which was wracked by political disputes. But Lebanon's military is sounding optimistic. Armed forces Gen. Michel Suleiman, in apparent response to Karami's comments, said the army "faced grave events and emerged more cohesive to the point that it became a model in national unity."Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #25 March 3, 2005 QuoteThey have also curbed Muslim militants as they did in Syria, a nation ruled by a secular Baath party that sees militant Islam as a threat. and yet, they supprt and fund thos same islamic militants and terrorists when they attack israel. QuoteHezbollah has stayed on the sidelines of Lebanon's recent polarization, but - with Syria's support - it has blocked attempts to send the Lebanese army into its territory in southern Lebanon, along the border with Israel, and refused to disarm until the conflict with Israel is resolved. it is resolved. even the UN which is not exactly known as Israel's best friend had declared that israel as followed the UN resolution regarding lebanon. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
