A Good Day for a Gun Battle in Illinois

[Kennedy 0]

...over policy that is.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/southsouthwest/chi-0502240371feb24,1,1713161.story?coll=chi-newslocalssouthwest-hed&ctrack=2&cset=true

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Gun friends, foes face Capitol fight

By Christi Parsons and Ray Long
Tribune staff reporters
Published February 24, 2005

SPRINGFIELD -- As the gun lobby flooded the Statehouse with supporters Wednesday, a major showdown began shaping up in the House between members who back Mayor Richard Daley's anti-gun package and those who want to loosen weapons restrictions already on the books.

Gun-rights supporters flexed their muscle by winning approval in a House committee packed with Downstate lawmakers for a series of pro-gun measures, including bills aimed at watering down Chicago's ban on handguns.

Meanwhile, anti-gun lawmakers on Thursday are queued up to move their own proposals--including measures to limit handgun purchases and ban many assault weapons--through a committee more sympathetic to their position.

That sets the stage for a major confrontation over gun control in the full House in the coming weeks that will pit urban and Downstate lawmakers against each other. It also could pressure Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich to take sides in a politically sensitive battle of which he has tried to steer clear.

"Basically, it's going to be a bare-knuckled fistfight on the floor," said Todd Vandermyde, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association.

30 NRA-backed bills

The NRA is pushing more than 30 bills ranging from a proposal that would let hunters use handguns to shoot wild turkeys to legislation that would lower from 21 to 18 the age at which a person may get a firearm owner's permit without parental approval.

Daley's package, parts of which are expected to be heard Thursday in the House Human Services Committee, includes a ban on semi-automatic assault weapons and a proposal that would restrict a person to buying no more than one handgun a month. The panel is made up of members generally friendly to the mayor's efforts.

Blagojevich represented a Northwest Side district in Congress before becoming governor, and in Washington he was one of the most vocal advocates of strong new gun-control laws. That stand caused him trouble with Downstate voters in the Democratic primary for governor in 2002, and he has been less aggressive in pushing anti-gun measures since.

An aide to Blagojevich said the governor supports the mayor's legislative package and has "pledged to do whatever we can to help those bills pass."

That said, lobbyists for Blagojevich's Department of Natural Resources registered as favoring one of the gun lobby's bills at Wednesday's hearings. The measure would nullify any municipal bans on the ownership of rifles or shotguns.

Blagojevich aides later said the governor opposes so-called local pre-emption measures and ordered the official notification of support withdrawn.

Still, it was a successful day for the NRA and its state affiliate, the Illinois State Rifle Association, as more than 200 gun advocates rallied at the Capitol. At a packed meeting of the House Agriculture and Conservation Committee, vice chairman Brandon Phelps (D-Norris City) was sporting an ISRA lobby day button.

Panel backs pro-gun bills

The committee advanced a Phelps bill to override any local ban on rifles and shotguns, as well as a second one to override local bans on any hunting weapon, which also includes some handguns used during deer season.

The panel also approved a bill to let gun owners sue the state when it is tardy in awarding Firearm Owner Identification cards and another to get rid of a brief state-mandated waiting period for taking possession of a weapon after its purchase if the new gun is being traded in for another.

Meanwhile, gun-control advocates were seeking support to take the state in the opposite direction with a blunt appeal to soccer moms and their families.

"We've got to hear their opinions," said Rep. Willie Delgado (D-Chicago), who is sponsoring part of the mayor's package. "One thing (the debate) will do is provide citizens with a clear view of what's happening in Illinois with gun safety and gun ownership and help us define, once and for all, where Illinois should be."

Sen. John Cullerton (D-Chicago), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said the votes will be "real close" in the Senate over legislation he is sponsoring to close the gun-show loophole and impose a ban on assault weapons either modeled on an expired federal ban or expanding upon it.

Pressure will be on suburban Republican senators because they could be the swing votes on anti-gun legislation, and several of them are facing contests in two years, Cullerton said.

Chicago Democrats in the legislature largely have safe seats, but Republicans often face primary challenges that pit moderates against conservatives. Moderate GOP incumbents who take pro-gun positions could blunt an issue for the primary, but then be forced to defend those stances against Democratic opponents in a general election battle.

"It helps us either way," Cullerton said. "Either they vote for the bill and it passes or they vote `no' and we try to defeat them."

That's funny mr. Cullerton, because we say the same thing about anti-gun politicians.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnMitchell 16]

Remind me never to move to Chicago. How's the crime rate going in the Windy City? Still a target rich enviroment for muggers and such? This is coming from the great state of Washington, proud sponsor of the "shall issue" permit since 1961.

[kallend 2,147]

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Remind me never to move to Chicago. How's the crime rate going in the Windy City? Still a target rich enviroment for muggers and such? This is coming from the great state of Washington, proud sponsor of the "shall issue" permit since 1961.

Crime rate way down in Chicago over the last 2 years. Firearms murders down approx. 30% last year alone. Must be all the CC permit holders in the city that caused the decline, after all, that's the SC explanation for Houston.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Remind me never to move to Chicago. How's the crime rate going in the Windy City? Still a target rich enviroment for muggers and such? This is coming from the great state of Washington, proud sponsor of the "shall issue" permit since 1961.

There are plenty of other areas in IL you can live if you want a gun. I have no problem with the ban within the City limits, and I am a gun person. Besides housing is better and cheaper outside of the City.

FYI - This should be funny watching the NRA trying to bully Daley....the man never loses what he puts his mind on. He has too much control over this city and no outside forces have ever swayed him. Take a look at Meigs if you have any questions on that. If he is losing, he changes the game and the rules.

The great thing about some of our stupid rules and the winter is it keeps the rest of the world from moving here. I have no problem with that.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[kelpdiver 2]

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Crime rate way down in Chicago over the last 2 years. Firearms murders down approx. 30% last year alone. Must be all the CC permit holders in the city that caused the decline, after all, that's the SC explanation for Houston.

Must be the result of Bush's great success in Iraq.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Bo,

Unless things have changed drastically since I left Chicago (1999), I still feel a bit iffy riding the El in some areas, much less walking in some neighborhoods. For example, on the South Side, with the exception of ther areas near Midway/Univ of Chicago, I usually try to leave before dark.

While I know Fuhrer Daley would never let it happen, I'd feel much safer being able to carry a pistol in Chicago.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Bo,

Unless things have changed drastically since I left Chicago (1999), I still feel a bit iffy riding the El in some areas, much less walking in some neighborhoods. For example, on the South Side, with the exception of ther areas near Midway/Univ of Chicago, I usually try to leave before dark.

While I know Fuhrer Daley would never let it happen, I'd feel much safer being able to carry a pistol in Chicago.

I went to HS in the city, went to college in the city (Rogers Park and Downtown campus), live in the city, have worked the majority of the last fourteen years in the city, spent three summers living in the inner city doing social work (was there during the riots related to the Bulls) and even walked into Cabrini Green at 3am while drunk and lost this summer.....never once have I felt the need for any weapon.

While in college I worked the overnight shift which had me in subway (both Red and Blue lines) anywhere from 11p - 6am over three years. I usually caught up on my sleep while waiting for the trains and while on the train.

In all of those years only one bum tried to mug me just outside of the Water Tower area on Chestnut and Rush and I just slammed him into the wall and kept walking.

Edit to add: A good portion of my friends that I went to college with have similar experiences, so this is not a unique situation. They also grew up in the city in areas like Marquette Park, Cermak and Damen, 63rd and Western, Bridgeport, Six Corners, Cicero, etc.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[JohnRich 4]

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Remind me never to move to Chicago. How's the crime rate going in the Windy City?

U.S. average murder rate per 100,000: 5.6
Chicago: 22.1

For Kallend:
Houston: 12.5

Source: http://www.morganquitno.com/cit02r.pdf

[kallend 2,147]

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Remind me never to move to Chicago. How's the crime rate going in the Windy City?

U.S. average murder rate per 100,000: 5.6
Chicago: 22.1

For Kallend:
Houston: 12.5

Source: http://www.morganquitno.com/cit02r.pdf

Oh, whatever happened to your emphasis on rates of change? I thought you were a John Lott disciple. If you want absolute numbers, try London.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,147]

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Bo,

Unless things have changed drastically since I left Chicago (1999), I still feel a bit iffy riding the El in some areas, much less walking in some neighborhoods. For example, on the South Side, with the exception of ther areas near Midway/Univ of Chicago, I usually try to leave before dark.

While I know Fuhrer Daley would never let it happen, I'd feel much safer being able to carry a pistol in Chicago.

I've worked at 33rd and State for 27 years, and I'm often there after dark teaching evening classes. Never been bothered, nor have any of my colleagues. Of course, it could be the bad guys know that professors don't have anything worth stealing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Of course, it could be the bad guys know that professors don't have anything worth stealing.

All politics aside, that's funny.

[Kennedy 0]

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Of course, it could be the bad guys know that professors don't have anything worth stealing.

All politics aside, that's funny.

But if you cut off their head, you get all their knowledge, right?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Buried 0]

IIT has a of patrols so I would suspect that helps. That area is much better now though than it was 10 yrs ago

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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IIT has a of patrols so I would suspect that helps. That area is much better now though than it was 10 yrs ago

It helps that alot of the CHA projects are now mostly gone as well. Daley has focused his attention on bringing money and change into the worst areas of the city....he has made plenty of enemies by doing so. However he has helped plenty of families by moving them into single family housing and giving those kids a chance to grow up away from a negative environment.

Still, when John started there it was one of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago...and it stayed that way for many years (they used to take sniper practice on new the Comiskey Park upper deck while it was under construction - from the othe side of the 12 lane Dan Ryan expressway!)

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Quote

IIT has a of patrols so I would suspect that helps. That area is much better now though than it was 10 yrs ago

It helps that alot of the CHA projects are now mostly gone as well. Daley has focused his attention on bringing money and change into the worst areas of the city....he has made plenty of enemies by doing so. However he has helped plenty of families by moving them into single family housing and giving those kids a chance to grow up away from a negative environment.

Still, when John started there it was one of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago...and it stayed that way for many years (they used to take sniper practice on new the Comiskey Park upper deck while it was under construction - from the othe side of the 12 lane Dan Ryan expressway!)

The new police HQ at 35th and Michigan put an end to that.

The overwhelming majority of violent crimes in Chicago are gang-on-gang. Away from the gang neighborhoods it's pretty quiet.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Buried 0]

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The overwhelming majority of violent crimes in Chicago are gang-on-gang. Away from the gang neighborhoods it's pretty quiet.

True, gang-on-gang killings would probably account for the majority of deaths in the city, if not from stray bullets. Those blue light video cameras daley as placed on the west and south side has helped those areas too. Personally, I hate them, but it is a public area. I guess just as anything, It's ok as long as it's not abused. London UK seems to have done well with the camera idea thoughout the years too.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[JohnRich 4]

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U.S. murder rate per 100,000:
Chicago: 22.1
Houston: 12.5

Oh, whatever happened to your emphasis on rates of change?

How quickly you seem to have forgot that this reply started with you making fun of how someone called Houston more safe than Chicago because of people walking around legally armed.

The numbers seem to suggest that he might have been correct.

Nice attempt to switch the subject, however!

[JohnRich 4]

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London UK seems to have done well with the camera idea thoughout the years too.

You need to see this thread: CCTV Cameras

[Buried 0]

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London UK seems to have done well with the camera idea thoughout the years too.

You need to see this thread: CCTV Cameras

ahh.... I guess i did tend to say it was effective with the use of the words 'done well' but its not entirely what I meant. Tools are only as effectiveas we make them. I"m sure over time people become comfortable with the cameras. This sense of comfort can play on both sides of the equation.

The cameras in London are also different than those in Chicago. The ones in chicago are all moveable and also will alert those in a room when a gun shot is heard near one.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[Kennedy 0]

Just a little good news.

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Senate panel blocks Daley gun package
By Christi Parsons and Erika Slife
Tribune staff reporters
Published March 2, 2005

SPRINGFIELD -- Key portions of Chicago Mayor Richard Daley's gun-control package failed Tuesday in an Illinois Senate committee, with Gov. Rod Blagojevich's administration formally registering opposition to one measure.

In a blow to Daley's cause, the Democratic-controlled Judiciary Committee voted down a bill to limit the number of handguns people can buy to one per month. Although Blagojevich has pledged to work on behalf of Daley's proposals, administration lobbyists were not actively supporting the bill.

But the Illinois State Police urged the committee to reject another Daley bill that would require gun dealers to get a state license, and the panel voted down the measure.

Before becoming governor, Blagojevich represented a Northwest Side Chicago district in Congress and was an outspoken advocate of increased gun control. That position caused him trouble with Downstate voters during his campaign for governor, and he has since downplayed it.

Although he has promised to back Daley's package, on Tuesday some gun control advocates were questioning Blagojevich's sincerity.

"The governor has publicly stated that he supports measures to reduce gun violence," said Thom Mannard, executive director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence. "It's not enough to just talk about whether you support a bill or not. It's incumbent upon you to actually put some resources out there to ensure that these bills at least get out onto the Senate floor."

Aides to the governor said the state police opposed the licensing measure out of concern that it would be costly to implement. Even so, Blagojevich aides insisted the governor remains personally committed to the proposal.

"We support that measure and, if it passed, we would find the funds to pay for it," Blagojevich spokeswoman Abby Ottenhoff said.

The Daley proposals have the support of Senate President Emil Jones (D-Chicago), and he could still employ parliamentary maneuvers to bypass the judiciary panel and move the measures to the floor through a more sympathetic committee. But the Judiciary Committee is seen as a bellwether of sentiment for the full Senate, indicating the gun-control package could still face a rocky future.

Daley has tried and failed for several years to push stronger gun controls through the legislature, but the change from Republican to Democratic control of the Senate two years ago has not proved the boon he had hoped.

Making things more difficult for the mayor this year is a strategy adopted by the National Rifle Association to not just fight his proposals but push its own agenda of more than 30 bills designed to relax gun controls already on the books. Those proposals have strong support among many Downstate legislators.

House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) has agreed to let lawmakers on both sides of the issue in his chamber choose friendly committees for their bills, meaning a gun control showdown should take place in the coming weeks.

Backers of the handgun purchase limit proposal in the Senate said it would cut back on so-called "straw purchases" in which legal buyers purchase guns on behalf of those who are not eligible to do so themselves.

Members also voted down the legislation to require state licenses for gun dealers. Supporters say the proposal could prove a backstop to federal licensing and supervisions of dealers.

"The feds don't have the resources to investigate them on a regular basis," Mannard said. "The idea is to bring some state resources to bear on this."

The state police are worried about coming up with enough money to pay staff to perform new duties. But Ottenhoff said that if the measure passes, the governor would sign it into law and would find the cash.

The committee also voted down a measure pushed by Cook County State's Atty. Dick Devine, which would let state police revoke the gun permit of anyone who fails to report the loss or theft of a firearm within three days.

"If you do that, law enforcement will know a gun has been stolen or lost," Mannard said. "There's a gun out there that might be in the wrong hands."

Sen. Don Harmon (D-Oak Park) said he will try to fine tune both the licensing bill and the gun-permit bill and bring them back for another vote.

But gun-rights activists noted that the same committee turned down similar Daley proposals two years ago. Lawmakers don't like "Chicago-style gun control," said NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde.

One committee member, Sen. Kirk Dillard (R-Hinsdale), said he didn't support the mayor's plan, partly because it seemed like "overkill."

Still, Dillard did not close the door to voting for a modified version later.

"It's early in the process," said Dillard, the new GOP chairman in DuPage County. "We can continue to explore many of these ideas."

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[penniless 0]

Yup, I'm really looking forward to being able to buy 10 handguns a month instead of the one I'm allowed now. And it's so handy being allowed to get someone else to buy them for me so my name never has to show up.

[JohnRich 4]

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Yup, I'm really looking forward to being able to buy 10 handguns a month...

If a law-abiding collector sees a pair of guns he would like to purchase, he ought to be able to do so. You can't stop the criminals by restricting the law-abiding.

There is already a federal law requiring a gun store to report anyone purchasing two or more handguns at one time during 5 consecutive
business days. All the police have to do is follow-up on those reports to see what became of the guns.

Furthermore, if crime guns keep getting traced back to the same purchaser, then the police should follow up on that and investigate that guy.

[Kennedy 0]

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And it's so handy being allowed to get someone else to buy them for me so my name never has to show up.

That happens to be a felony at state and federal levels, so I don't know what you mean by "allowed." It's called a straw purchase, and people go to jail for it. Just ask the ATF.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[kallend 2,147]

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And it's so handy being allowed to get someone else to buy them for me so my name never has to show up.

That happens to be a felony at state and federal levels, so I don't know what you mean by "allowed." It's called a straw purchase, and people go to jail for it. Just ask the ATF.

I think part of the Illinois proposal was to give teeth to the regulations on straw purchases, which don;t seem to be working right now.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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I think part of the Illinois proposal was to give teeth to the regulations on straw purchases, which don;t seem to be working right now.

The law has teeth, the police just have to care enough to use them: ATF Press Release