bodypilot90 0 #1 February 27, 2005 Powerful speech, Mr. Henry seems not be be concerned with separation of church and state but of freedom. Quote March 23, 1775 By Patrick Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the house. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the house is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at the truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings. Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it. I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlement assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come. It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Patrick Henry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #2 February 27, 2005 News travels slowly in your part of the world? Must have sent it USPS.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #3 February 27, 2005 I do agree with the point you are trying to make...but many people forget the documents and whatnot that were written back in the day when our country was trying to build its foundation built... However, most people would also argue that this was written in 1775, the times have changed and sometimes hear that our four fathers were "idiotic," "stupid," "low-life slave owners," "murderers," and my personal favorite..."God-loving hypocrites." Too bad these people don't see the fact that we probably wouldn't have the freedom to criticize what they said in those documents if it wasn't for the rights that were bestowed by them...It really is too bad...... ~R+R...Then again...I also find it humorous when people want to claim that this country wasn't founded on basic "Christian" beliefs...The answer is yes it was...what it has become...well, that a different matter entirely...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #4 February 27, 2005 Quote News travels slowly in your part of the world? Must have sent it USPS. You really don't know how right you are. Try having something sent to Europe with USPS snail mail Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #5 February 28, 2005 And while he rejected slavrery he didn't let them free. here "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #6 February 28, 2005 his words were powerful and still true today. something wrong with your link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #7 February 28, 2005 QuoteAnd while he rejected slavrery he didn't let them free. here Fixee clickyMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #8 March 1, 2005 When I had my citizenship interview at the INS office, the agent asked me , "who said , 'Give me Liberty or give me Death' ?". I replied, "You just did" I learned at this point that federal agents don't have much of a sense of humor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #9 March 1, 2005 QuoteI also find it humorous when people want to claim that this country wasn't founded on basic "Christian" beliefs...The answer is yes it was. How christian is it to steal land and try to commit genocide? Is it cristian to enslave people because of the color of their skin? if it's christin to do these things then Quotewhat it has become...well, that a different matter entirely... what did you expect. When something starts as a lie it will eventually unravel. Otherwise it was some people that paid lip service to christianity and used it to their own ends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #10 March 1, 2005 QuoteHow christian is it to steal land and try to commit genocide? Ever read the Bible? QuoteIs it cristian to enslave people because of the color of their skin? if it's christin to do these things then Ever read the Bible? Also if I remember correctly blacks also sold blacks into slavery. Quotewhat did you expect. When something starts as a lie it will eventually unravel. Otherwise it was some people that paid lip service to christianity and used it to their own ends. I guess everything you don't like has to be "the Man" trying to keep you down."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #11 March 1, 2005 Well at least he uderstood what a shit he was QuoteI know not where to stop, I could say many things on this Subject; a serious review of which gives a gloomy perspective to future times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #12 March 1, 2005 QuoteI guess evertthing you don't like has to be "the Man" tyring to keep you down. There go your mind reading powers again amazing QuoteEver read the Bible? Ahhh so if it's in the bible it makes it all right, so killing is ok cause it's in the bible? Rape is ok because it's in the bible? Your comedy has improved but not much it's getting kind of boring I just want to get this straight if it's in the bible then it's OK? If so then ya'll have no morales and are nasty to boot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #13 March 1, 2005 QuoteThere go your mind reading powers again amazing Not mind reading to see that everything you write is something I expect came from a Jessie Jackson website. You took a thread about a founding father and freedom and turned it into a "White Bash". QuoteAhhh so if it's in the bible it makes it all right, so killing is ok cause it's in the bible? Rape is ok because it's in the bible? No, but you claim one thing and you can't prove any of it. And you never answered my question...Like always, you avoid answering an questions and prefer to try and insult people. QuoteYour comedy has improved but not much it's getting kind of boring See? I would regret living a life so filled with hate. Edit to add... QuoteI just want to get this straight if it's in the bible then it's OK? If so then ya'll have no morales and are nasty to boot I have both morals and esprit de corps ...but alas, I have no morales."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #14 March 1, 2005 QuoteOtherwise it was some people that paid lip service to christianity and used it to their own ends. This is more likely than the paranoia of the rest of the post. Name a historical religion that hasn't had assholes do exactly this - holding it to just "Christianity" just shows a bias towards a particular demographic - and we all know how wrong that is. Even when one is started for purposes of exploitation, they have to base it on good will or no one will join (kind of like a flower growing out of a pot of manure). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #15 March 1, 2005 QuoteNot mind reading to see that everything you write is something I expect came from a Jessie Jackson website. and that means what? QuoteYou took a thread about a founding father and freedom and turned it into a "White Bash". If telling the truth is white bash then I'm sorry you can't handle the truth. QuoteNo, but you claim one thing and you can't prove any of it. what did I claim? What am I supposed to prove I just asked how christian certain acts were. You are the one who is reading my mind , badly I might add and then making interpratations QuoteAnd you never answer my question...Like always, you avoid answering an questions and prefer to try and insult people. No I've never read the all of the bible. what does that have to do with shit....nothing do you have a valid question? Look who is talkin you claim to know my mind you put false words and attitudes on me and then you expect to be treated civil. what a joke. QuoteSee? See what? that your comedy is getting boring? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 March 1, 2005 SF - I read you wrong above. You seem to be pointing directly to the abusers of a religion, not the other read. Sorry for the misread. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #17 March 1, 2005 If you can't: A. Stop the "white bash" attitude B. Stop acting like a 3rd grader and try to insult me. Don't bother to try and play big boy with me and have a discussion. Have a nice day."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #18 March 1, 2005 QuoteThis is more likely than the paranoia of the rest of the post. What paranoia Quoteuote I also find it humorous when people want to claim that this country wasn't founded on basic "Christian" beliefs...The answer is yes it was. How christian is it to steal land and try to commit genocide? Is it cristian to enslave people because of the color of their skin? if it's christin to do these things then Quote what it has become...well, that a different matter entirely... what did you expect. When something starts as a lie it will eventually unravel. Otherwise it was some people that paid lip service to christianity and used it to their own ends. JG "I don't know whats next. Thats why I need you to leave. I'm very busy trying to discover a new science" What in there is paranoia? Maybe if you took the time to actually read what I wrote you'd realize that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 March 1, 2005 Quote What in there is paranoia? Maybe if you took the time to actually read what I wrote you'd realize that. (If you took the time to) Look up to post 16 then maybe you'd be more courteous in this reply. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #20 March 1, 2005 QuoteDon't bother to try and play big boy with me and have a discussion. You need to get a grip on that ego it's not all about you. I didn't ask for your input on this subject. I would be most happy to never hear of you again. It's a semi-public board I responed to a post that wasn't yours. You choose to respond in an antogonistic fashion. Personally I hope I don't have to see anymore of your ignorant trailer park responses. You'll note I don't respond to any of your posts it's that easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #21 March 1, 2005 Quote(If you took the time to) Look up to post 16 then maybe you'd be more courteous in this reply. Duly noted.....I apologize Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #22 March 1, 2005 Quote If you can't: Take the heat get the fuck outta the kitchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #23 March 1, 2005 QuotePersonally I hope I don't have to see anymore of your ignorant trailer park responses. Nice personal attack. Shame you have to call people names to try and feel big. BTW I am still looking for these "morales" you speak about.....Anyone else find it funny he calls me ignorant now?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #24 March 1, 2005 QuotePersonally I hope I don't have to see anymore of your ignorant trailer park responses. Nice personal attack. Shame you have to call people names to try and feel big. You really need to work on your reading comprehension. The responses are the object not you. I know that will take a lot of thought but think on it a day or 2. Also I find it amusing that you whine about insults when yo called me a 3rd grader first. I also realize the JJ comparison was an attempt at an insult. The truth is I don't need to insult you to feel superior to you all I have to do is read your posts and I know I'm superior Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #25 March 1, 2005 QuoteThe truth is I don't need to insult you to feel superior to you all I have to do is read your posts and I know I'm superior Yeah, you are loads smarter than me... BTW I am still looking for these "morales" you speak about.....Anyone else find it funny he calls me ignorant now? BTW you started the insults with your "mind reading" BS again."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
