craichead 0 #1 February 15, 2005 Okay, who else saw this one coming? Maybe Dick's daughter can be her mentor. _Pm http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/021405_ns_keyesdaughter.html Keyes' daughter acknowledges she is a lesbian Politician referred to gays and lesbians as "hedonistic sinners" By Andy Shaw February 14, 2005 — The daughter of former Republican Party senate candidate Alan Keyes publicly acknowledged Monday that she is a lesbian. During the Republican National Convention, Alan Keyes made headlines when he condemned gays and lesbians. His daughter says she has been ostracized from the family. "God works in really strange ways sometimes. There are times in life when he just doesn't sort of nudge you gently in the direction he wants you to go, he sort of takes a two by four and whacks you upside the head," said Maya Keyes, Alan Keyes' 19-year-old daughter. At a gay rights rally in Annapolis, Md., Maya Keyes said she is coming out as a lesbian in response to escalating tensions with her parents, including her arch-conservative father, whom she worked for in last year's Illinois senate race. Keyes said she also wanted to highlight the struggle of gays in the closet, including a gay friend who died last week after months on the street. During last year's senate race, Keyes referred to gays and lesbians as "hedonistic sinners" and talked hypothetically about his own family. "If my own daughter were a homosexual, or a lesbian, I would love my daughter, but I would tell my daughter that she was in sin," Keyes said in August. Later, as rumors swirled around his daughter's pained admissions of sexual confusion and home tensions on an Internet blog page, Keyes defended his hard line. "Before I deny god, before I deny Christ, before I deny my faith, I would die. Surely, then you would understand that I consider the eternal salvation of my children to be the real aim of my parenting, not how they feel today," said Keyes. When asked Monday if she dislikes her parents, Maya Keyes said she loves them very much and they love her. "My daughter is an adult and she is responsible for her own actions. What she chooses to do has nothing to do with my work or political activities," Keyes said in response to his daughter's announcement. Maya told the Washington Post Monday her parents kicked her out of the house and will not pay her college tuition. But a family friend has a very different take, saying Maya has been self-destructive and needs psychiatric help, not college. The friend says Maya has not been kicked out of the family home, but she is no longer welcomed to stay at the downtown Chicago apartment that Keyes and members of his new political organization use.__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #2 February 15, 2005 So she's a dike. Who cares. Let the woman be who she is. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #3 February 15, 2005 QuoteSo she's a dike. Who cares. Let the woman be who she is. I'm all for letting her be who she is. The irony is that her own father isn't. It wouldn't be such a big story if Keyes hadn't made such ridiculous comments about "selfish hedonism" preceding the election. _Pm BTW, it's dyke.__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #4 February 15, 2005 I just don't see it as that big a deal. He's a bigot, and she is something that he disapproves of. It happens all the time, to people of all sorts of different beliefs. Often it happens _because_ of the difference in beliefs - some kids just need something to rebel against. A long time ago I met a woman who was a professional dominatrix, about as bizarre a profession as you can get. Her friends were a pretty odd collection of people. Her son grew up in that environment, got into his teenage rebellion years, and started wearing three piece suits. It drove her nuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #5 February 15, 2005 QuoteI just don't see it as that big a deal. He's a bigot, and she is something that he disapproves of. It happens all the time, to people of all sorts of different beliefs. Often it happens _because_ of the difference in beliefs - some kids just need something to rebel against. It is a big deal here in Chicago because of the frequency and smug attitude Keyes had on the news every night. The man is disgusting in his very prejudicial beliefs. The irony is overwhelming._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #6 February 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteI just don't see it as that big a deal. He's a bigot, and she is something that he disapproves of. It happens all the time, to people of all sorts of different beliefs. Often it happens _because_ of the difference in beliefs - some kids just need something to rebel against. It is a big deal here in Chicago because of the frequency and smug attitude Keyes had on the news every night. The man is disgusting in his very prejudicial beliefs. The irony is overwhelming. So you think Keyes should have "better control" over his daughter so she wouldn't be a Lesbian? Suppose she was a drug dealer, would you find it hypocritical of Keyes if he spoke out against drug use? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #7 February 15, 2005 She may really be a troubled young woman who's using her sexuality as a weapon. He might honestly think that homosexuality is worse than murder. And he might be a father with a daughter who's torturing herself to be someone whom he would like. Either way, well, ya know -- what difference does it make for most of us? He's unlikely ever to get elected to a significant office, so we can either listen to him or not. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #8 February 15, 2005 QuoteOften it happens _because_ of the difference in beliefs - some kids just need something to rebel against. Sure, I realize that. Specifically why I prefaced the article with my cheek: "Okay, who else saw this one coming? Maybe Dick's daughter can be her mentor." So, do you think that she's consciously choosing to be a lesbian just to rebel against her bigoted father? _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #9 February 15, 2005 QuoteSo you think Keyes should have "better control" over his daughter so she wouldn't be a Lesbian? What an odd suggestion. She's 19 years old. I don't know of any parents of 19 year olds who have any amount of "control" over their children. Whats most interesting to me, is that while Alan Keyes never misses a chance to lecture people on family values and morality, what he is actually doing is actively destroying his own family to further his career. Contrast that with Dick Cheyney who had mostly positive things to say about Mary's lifestyle, and you see a striking difference of character. I wonder, when Alan Keyes was saying mean and hurtfull things at Mary, if he was really targetting that message to Maya. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #10 February 15, 2005 >So, do you think that she's consciously choosing to be a lesbian just >to rebel against her bigoted father? No. I think that had her father not made such a big deal of his hatred towards gays, that her sexuality would have stayed a private matter, and it would not have been a big deal one way or the other. Being gay is really not that big a deal unless you make it one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #11 February 15, 2005 Well, I don't know that its such a big deal, but I did get a kick out of the irony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #12 February 15, 2005 QuoteA long time ago I met a woman who was a professional dominatrix, about as bizarre a profession as you can get. Her friends were a pretty odd collection of people. Her son grew up in that environment, got into his teenage rebellion years, and started wearing three piece suits. It drove her nuts. I bet they had interesting dinner discussions when he brought a girl home - Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #13 February 15, 2005 Quote So you think Keyes should have "better control" over his daughter so she wouldn't be a Lesbian? Wow, talk about taking something I said and turning it around and inside out. Where did I say that? I believe I talked about how ironic it was, nothing else. I take no joy or sorrow out of the situation....or anything else. QuoteSuppose she was a drug dealer, would you find it hypocritical of Keyes if he spoke out against drug use? I don't know...would you find it hypocritical that Bush Sr was part of the "just say no" administration and his kid was doing coke?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #14 February 15, 2005 QuoteContrast that with Dick Cheyney who had mostly positive things to say about Mary's lifestyle, and you see a striking difference of character. Okay, I think VP Cheney comments were less on Mary's lifestyle (hinting of a lesbian lifestyle) than the way she is actually living her life regardless of her sexual orientation. Now, I'm not a Keyes supporter, he is his own worst enemy. Just because his daughter comes out as a lesbian (which may or may not be an attack on her father), why should that make him change a core belief? Did he even know of his daughter's sexual orientation when he made the comments about Cheney's daughter? And if so, if (hypothetically) his daughter was a murdering crack whore, should he change his position on that as well? No offense to the murdering, crack-whore jumpers out here. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #15 February 15, 2005 QuoteAnd if so, if (hypothetically) his daughter was a murdering crack whore, should he change his position on that as well? QuoteSuppose she was a drug dealer, would you find it hypocritical of Keyes if he spoke out against drug use? Come on guys, since when could drug dealers and murders EVER be compared to being a lesbian? As far as I know drug dealers and murderers both have victims, if lesbians have victims too, then I wanna be one of em!! ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #16 February 15, 2005 QuoteCome on guys, since when could drug dealers and murders EVER be compared to being a lesbian? As far as I know drug dealers and murderers both have victims, if lesbians have victims too, then I wanna be one of em!! I never compared the two, you did. My point was the character issue. If it's against his morals, then that is what it is. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #17 February 15, 2005 I think it's clear exactly what his morals are. That's the problem. This just shows how screwed up his morals are, and that when he talks about "Family values", he's talking out of his ass. See, morality isn't the binary black or white issue the last election made it out to be. It's relative. Things aren't "good at all costs", or "bad at all costs". I can understand that there are some people who think that homosexuality is wrong. People have a right to their opinions, and people have a right to disagree. I can not understand someone who would put his child out on the street because she's sleeping with someone of the wrong gender, then stand on a national pulpet and lecture the entire nation about morality, pretending to be an authority. That morality is fucked. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #18 February 15, 2005 >I can not understand someone who would put his child out on the street > because she's sleeping with someone of the wrong gender, then stand >on a national pulpet and lecture the entire nation about morality, > pretending to be an authority. I can understand it. There are some people who are so crazed about their issue/party/religion that nothing else - not their family, not their principles, not any sort of moral code - comes between them and their goal. They'll disavow their family and friends to get their holy grail, whether that's some sort of religious goal (heaven, 72 virgins, whatever) or a political one (ending gay marriage, stopping interracial marriage etc.) Such people certainly exist; the history books and papers are full of them. Keyes having a lesbian daughter just doesn't mean that much overall. He's certainly not going to start thinking of gays as normal people just because his daughter is one. It gives her a pulpit to speak her mind, which is good in the long run. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #19 February 15, 2005 okay, I wouldn't call him a bigot because he doesn't believe that was his daughter is is a good thing. He still loves her supposedly, right? Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #20 February 15, 2005 Disapproving of his daughter's lifestyle just makes him a parent. Referring to all homosexuals as selfish hedonistic sinners makes him a bigot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #21 February 16, 2005 Speaking of sexual orientations at odds with public images - Jeff Gannon, the reporter that planted questions for Bush at his most recent press conference, seems to also be Jim Guckert, the creator of a gay "military escort" website (hotmilitarystud.com) where his picture is used as part of the services available. The 'news company' he worked for (Talon News) is actually owned by Bobby Eberle, a GOP activist. Talon News regularly publishes anti-gay news articles. So they seem to strongly support Bush's anti-gay-marriage agenda - but at least their reporter seems to endorse gay prostitution. Interesting dichotomy there. Also interesting that such a person - using a fake name at that! - was able to gain access to the president of the US and be presented as a credible media representative. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #22 February 16, 2005 QuoteJeff Gannon, the reporter that planted questions for Bush at his most recent press conference, seems to also be Jim Guckert, the creator of a gay "military escort" website . . . I bet he never gets lonely -- even when he's alone! . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #23 February 16, 2005 QuoteAlso interesting that such a person - using a fake name at that! - was able to gain access to the president of the US and be presented as a credible media representative. More interesting than a dope dealer with a warrant out for him appearing at WH functions when WJC was President? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #24 February 16, 2005 QuoteI don't know...would you find it hypocritical that Bush Sr was part of the "just say no" administration and his kid was doing coke? No I wouldn't find that hypocritical. I would find it hypocritical if GHB had a hard stance against drug use and then softened his stance if it was discovered his son was using drugs. I would also call Keyes a hypocrite if he had an anti-gay position and then softened it because his daughter was gay. As far as I can tell, Keyes position hasn't changed. Please explain how that makes him a hypocrite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #25 February 16, 2005 Quote Please explain how that makes him a hypocrite. Nope since I never said such a thing._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
