4th Amendment and school searches

[jkm2500 0]

Hey Guys and Gals,

I am writing a paper for school, and it concerns a hypothetical situation about 4th amendment rights and high school. In this situation the principal is pressing to make some security/preventive measures changes. The principal would like to search every car/bookbag/locker everyday as students come onto campus. The principal would also like to install metal detectors at every entrance to the school, and then require every student to wear a security badge.

What do you think would be reasonable measures to be installed as far as new security techniques? And do you feel that it violates 4th amendment rights?

One idea that we felt would better serve the school was to merely add extra security personnel, and arm them.

What are your opinions? What do you feel is reasonable? Please post any and all responses....

Thanks for the help!! y'all are awesome!!

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[TomAiello 26]

I'm thinking that if there is reasonable cause to believe those things are needed, and they are done in support of the schools primary (educational) mission (presumably because it would be impossible to educate the students otherwise) you'd see a court siding with the principal.

But I'd be pulling my kids out of there and moving somewhere safer, for sure.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[rehmwa 2]

I'd think they can search the lockers any time they want in any school under the guise of it being school property. But the list of items that would be banned must be very specifically listed and communicated to the parents - since we all know some of the things banned in schools are nuts and completely arbitrary and have nothing to do with a reasonable definition of right vs wrong and legal vs illegal.

Personal searches of the students, their bags, their cars, etc. is more problematic - then only with cause, or if a student has a history of problems. I think this area is already abused by some schools. But we only hear in the news about the exceptions so that viewpoint is definitely biased.

Guards, etc is definitely subject to the specific circumstances so how can we say that here?

The biggest thing here would be that the school be very specific in what their plan is so that the parents can decide if that's where they want their kids to be. If not, they should be able to take their vouchers and go to another school.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

in support of the schools primary (educational) mission

Such as math classes about racial equality

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,120]

>Such as math classes about racial equality

And science classes about religion.

[Tink1717 2]

As far as I know, school age students have no constitutional protection. The authorities can do whatever they like whenever they like. This is how they get away with censoring and otherwise suppressing student newspapers and stories. The courts have said that minors have no rights that way. This is a perversion of a good thing. The good part is it is the provision that allows for a juvenile court system (for the good and bad that it does) and allows for other protections that youngsters have.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[rmsmith 1]

Quote

The principal would like to search every car/bookbag/locker everyday as students come onto campus. The principal would also like to install metal detectors at every entrance to the school, and then require every student to wear a security badge.

Sounds like a freedom loving liberal to me!

[jkm2500 0]

It is called "loco parentis" meaning that the school "officials" basically can act in place of a parent. So they can basically do whatever a parent has the rights to do.

I just figure that we should recognize that kids should have rights too. What happens when they get a little older and something happens in thier neighbor hood? or town? what rights are they willing to give up then to be safe?

I also feel that money would be better spent on accident prevention, considering that more kids are seriously injured there than by violence.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[jdhill 0]

I see no issues with ID cards, metal detectors, or armed guards... School districts down this way have their own police departments.

if you want to search cars, then make it a condition of parking it on campus (assuming you'd be requiring a permit)... There still may be some issues... whos cars are you going search? Students, parents, teachers... to say that the kids don't have constitutional protections is questionable in my mind, but the parents and teachers definitely do.

Searches of lockers and bags should meet legal standards (meaning prob. cause, and done by law enforcement) so that if anything is found it can be used in court... if you want to get around this, take out the lockers, and only give them open "cubby holes" to put their stuff in (which will cut down on non-educational items)... Don't let them carry bags larger than is necessary for personal items (wallet, etc). You would have to give more time between classes so they could go to their "cubby hole" to get materials for the next class.

If all this is reasonable or not depends on the situation... Some places already do some of these things.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Ron 10]

Quote

>Such as math classes about racial equality

And science classes about religion.

Race has nothing to do with math....NOTHING.

Creationism is one view of how we got here. Evolution is another.

I can see how religion is covered as it relates to how we got here...But not how math has jack to do with race.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>Such as math classes about racial equality

And science classes about religion.

AGREED - it's still wrong no matter which side of the aisle it comes from.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,120]

>Creationism is one view of how we got here. Evolution is another.

And equality has something to do with math. Perhaps you have heard of the equals sign. But that argument is just as silly as claiming creationism is just like evolution.

Creationism is religion. Evolution is science. Math is, well, math. Racial equality is social studies.