rhino 0 #26 January 31, 2005 QuoteI think it's the haircut that really clutters the mind. The Navy cut tends to stress the scalp less. That's why we drive the boats and fly the planes - so when we drop off the Marines, they get there without having to ask for directions on the way. edit: for completeness - the airmen really can't get away from the country club long enough to deliver the fighters and they can't drive the ships. The Army, well - you know. As for the coast guard, I guess they're ok, they like boats.... Very funny... Is that why the Navy coined the term Tea-Bagging? It's my understanding that Navy boys like that sort of thing from each other What do you call a bunch of navy boys wearing all white in a group? Seaman!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 January 31, 2005 QuoteAnd I was serious. I believe the money should be paid out to the unit finding the terrorists. That's the sad part of it. If it's really about duty, then the thought of reward shouldn't be on the table at all. There's a big difference between putting food on the family table and splitting multi-million dollar lotteries. If it was about feeding Marine families, this wouldn't be just a discussion about a single squad of Marines, it would be about military benefits and pay for all. So it reads as just resentment and greed and elitism of the battle teams over the support teams. I think better of Marines and all servicemen (did you know one of my best skydiving friends was a Marine - I know what his position on this topic would be) Other than that, this was fun. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #28 January 31, 2005 What about the civilian who point them to the right cave? Does he get the whole pot, a split, or nothing? JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #29 January 31, 2005 Good question Rhino. If you reward a soldier for finding UBL then shouldn't we also offer police officers rewards if they catch any criminal on the FBIs most wanted list. If you notice most of these carry rewards from $1000 to $25M. On this note I would say no. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #30 January 31, 2005 QuoteThat is bullshit.. Your opinion. I don't remember anything in the oath of enlistment that said jack shit about making good money. QuoteThey have families and children to feed just like anyone else. Marines need money JUST AS BADLY as civilians do... If you were in the service for the money....you were in the wrong line of work. If you serve your country for money...you were doing it for the wrong reasons. Edit to add: QuoteThe wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows: "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962). "I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.) I see nothing about a big paycheck...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #31 January 31, 2005 >If you were in the service for the money....you were in the wrong line of work. >If you serve your country for money...you were doing it for the wrong reasons. I know a few skydivers who entered the military partly because it was guaranteed work and because of the educational benefits. It worked out well for them. I think they'd take offense at your saying that they were wrong for doing it. The great majority of the people in the US work because they have to, at whatever job it is they take. That doesn't make the job they take any more or less worthwhile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #32 January 31, 2005 QuoteThe great majority of the people in the US work because they have to, at whatever job it is they take. That doesn't make the job they take any more or less worthwhile. Agreed... I didn't get in the Marines for the paycheck. I wanted to be a Marine. But I will be damned if I didn't need every dime of every paycheck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #33 January 31, 2005 QuoteI know a few skydivers who entered the military partly because it was guaranteed work and because of the educational benefits. It worked out well for them. I think they'd take offense at your saying that they were wrong for doing it. Read it again: QuoteIf you were in the service for the money....you were in the wrong line of work. If you joined up thinking you were gonna make a ton of money...you are really not thinking clearly. An E5 makes around 18,000 to 21,000 a year. Thats with about 3 years in. You start out making about 12,000 a year. I worked from 5:30 to 5:00, 5 days a week. I worked weekends and 24 hour shifts...with no additional pay. I worked easily 55 hours a week. That came out to about 7 bucks an hour. My current company starts you off at 11 bucks an hour and you will not get shot at. Like I said...If you are doing it for the money....Well you didn't think it out. Quote If you serve your country for money...you were doing it for the wrong reasons. People who fight for money are called Mercenaries. We don't encourage that."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 January 31, 2005 That's all well and good Bill - we know you already like to disagree with Ron - , but do you think a single squad of servicemen should split $25M dollars with no regard to the rest of the peoples in the service, even though it's part of their duty, which they get paid for, though the amount is in question in general, and is in service to the US and to a lesser extent mankind - even though the reward is specifically designed to be large enough to tempt OBL's insiders, ....... For that matter, do you think that $25M is really enough to put food on the table? Can you really feed a family on that? Absolutely how stingy is GWB for being incharge and letting a paltry reward of $25M be placed out there. What a slap in the face of all working men and women (and etc people)!! It's a scandle and an apostrophe! A real blasphemic epidemic of Icarion proportionates! You heard me! How DARE they! Because when you put your hand in a pile of GOO, and recognize that was you best friends face - it's China Town, baby. The TRUTH, you want the TRUTH? You can't handle the truth - I defy your truth handling ability - a truth handler you are not. Now, where was I? Oh yes - RSLs are ok for those that want them. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #35 January 31, 2005 QuoteAn E5 makes around 18,000 to 21,000 a year. Thats with about 3 years in. You're a little off... an E-5 over 3 with a dependant living off post will make $34.3K ('05 paycharts)... base pay for an E1 under 4 months is $13.7K... you get a raise at 4 months, and if you're enlisting as an E-1 that's your fault (you can make E-2 easy, and E-3 with a little effort before you even ship out.) But your point still holds true... if you joined up thinking you were going to make it rich, you're in the wrong line of work... there are a host of other benifits (training education money, etc.) that may help you make it rich when you get out, but not while your in... JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #36 January 31, 2005 > but do you think a single squad of servicemen should split $25M dollars . . . No. I don't think the reward is a great idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #37 January 31, 2005 QuoteYou're a little off... an E-5 over 3 with a dependant living off post will make $34.3K ('05 paycharts)... OK what if he is single living on post? Not everyone is married, and you have to live on post, and eat at the mess hall if you are single. QuoteBut your point still holds true... if you joined up thinking you were going to make it rich, you're in the wrong line of work... there are a host of other benifits (training education money, etc.) that may help you make it rich when you get out, but not while your in... Yes, I make 1664.00 a mth due to my service."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #38 January 31, 2005 QuoteOK what if he is single living on post? $23.6K JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #39 January 31, 2005 >Like I said...If you are doing it for the money....Well you didn't think it out. Several of my friends did think it out, and did do it for the money and the benefits. One of them got an education out of it and now has a pretty decent job as a result (chiropractor.) You may think he is a fool; that's fine. I don't. >People who fight for money are called Mercenaries. And marines, and air force, and navy. We do pay them to fight. We even have a new category called 'contractors' (because mercenaries had such a nasty ring to it.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #40 January 31, 2005 QuoteNo. I don't think the reward is a great idea. Bill, I assume you a referring to a reward in general for OBL's capture. Why do you think it is not a good idea? The reason I ask, is because I have wondered myself. Hypothetical: Al Qaeda feels OBL is no longer useful. They decide he's better ousted. They do it and collect $25 mil for their cause. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #41 January 31, 2005 I realize you like to fight with me. However read it yet AGAIN: Quote>Like I said...If you are doing it for the money....Well you didn't think it out. If you think 23,000 a year for 50 hours a week is a good idea, please by all means enlist. Be all you can be Bill. Quote>People who fight for money are called Mercenaries. And marines, and air force, and navy. We do pay them to fight. We even have a new category called 'contractors' (because mercenaries had such a nasty ring to it.) We pay the Army,Navy, Airforce, and Marines to SERVE. Sometimes that means fighting. But we pay them to serve. But feel free to call all our people serving Mercenaries...Thats your right. I prefer to think of them as doing a duty and we pay to let them. But if you want to think they are mercenaries, I guess thats your right."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #42 January 31, 2005 >If you think 23,000 a year for 50 hours a week is a good idea . . . When I left school I could get a job for twice that. Not everyone is in my shoes. Some people didn't have the opportunities that I did. >We pay the Army,Navy, Airforce, and Marines to SERVE. Sometimes >that means fighting. But we pay them to serve. Note the term "armed forces." Sorta gives away their purpose right there. >But if you want to think they are mercenaries, I guess thats your right. Nice try! Interesting that you call people who serve our country fools who can't think. (See? I can do the same thing!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #43 January 31, 2005 >I assume you a referring to a reward in general for OBL's capture. >Why do you think it is not a good idea? I don't think rewarding military units for doing their jobs is the best idea. I like the idea of a reward overall. It can do what your example cited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #44 January 31, 2005 Quote>If you think 23,000 a year for 50 hours a week is a good idea . . . When I left school I could get a job for twice that. Not everyone is in my shoes. Some people didn't have the opportunities that I did. So do you or don't you think that 23,000 a year is good? See I left a good paying job to serve. It was not for the money. I did take advantage of several really good deals. But I did not join for the money. QuoteNote the term "armed forces." Sorta gives away their purpose right there. >But if you want to think they are mercenaries, I guess thats your right. Nice try! So you are calling them mercenaries. QuoteInteresting that you call people who serve our country fools who can't think. Nope. I said they SERVE our country...You are the one saying its for the money. I think people serve for a number of reasons...Money is not it. You are the one calling them mercenaries. I am calling them Patriots."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 January 31, 2005 Anyone note this thread is titled "Reward money for Terrorists?" Then hypothosizes giving the OBL reward to a squad of Marines. I'd like to state here that I don't think Marines are terrorists at all. that's it ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #46 January 31, 2005 QuoteI don't think rewarding military units for doing their jobs is the best idea. I like the idea of a reward overall. It can do what your example cited. o.k. so let the unit pick the Charity it goes to.. I'll go half way... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #47 January 31, 2005 >I'd like to state here that I . . . think Marines are terrorists . . . all. First we have Ron calling marines fools, and now you're calling them terrorists! (Kidding, I'm kidding!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #48 January 31, 2005 QuoteFirst we have Ron calling marines fools, that is a personal attack"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #49 January 31, 2005 Instead of giving the money to the unit that finds him, how about they give it to the families of the men that died trying? Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #50 January 31, 2005 Quote>I'd like to state here that I . . . think Marines are terrorists . . . all. First we have Ron calling marines fools, and now you're calling them terrorists! (Kidding, I'm kidding!) that's a pretty nice 'Dowdification' as well. I hope anyone who reads it takes the time to check my real words before coming after me. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
