rhino 0 #1 January 31, 2005 Let's say a squad of Marines finds Osama? Do they get the reward? Or does Uncle Sam take the cheap way out and claim that this was an INTERNAL find? I think they should get paid... I know it is the soldiers job but a deal is a deal. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 January 31, 2005 QuoteI think they should get paid... I know it is the soldiers job but a deal is a deal. Disagree - it's the job Do you really want to establish an entitlement mentality in the armed forces, too? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #3 January 31, 2005 On the other hand it's a bit of a lottery. The squad who find him probably won't do so because of anything they do but simply because command told them to go to cave 'X'. The poor saps in Alpha company have to be content with being told to raid the empty cave 'Y' and 'Z'. Thus 99 squads carry out raids on command orders and find squat while 1 squad carrys out exactly the same kind of raid with exactly the same kind of risk and hit the jackpot. Bit unfair on those who don't win simply because command told them they were further up the valley that day. Still... would seem a bit of a jip if Uncle Sam didn't do something with the promised reward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #4 January 31, 2005 QuoteDisagree - it's the job It is a job.. a $25,000,000 is also one hell of a reward to a small group of men for risking their lives? a deal is a deal in my book. What a motivator too! , Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #5 January 31, 2005 Quote, And if you don't see what's wrong with that then I can't help you. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #6 January 31, 2005 I happen to be a Marine. I see NOTHING wrong with giving the promised reward to our own boys for finishing the job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #7 January 31, 2005 QuoteI happen to be a Marine. I see NOTHING wrong with giving the promised reward to our own boys for finishing the job. In this one circumstance, it makes sense to extend the reward offer to the troops. How much have we spent trying to catch OBL already? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #8 January 31, 2005 QuoteI happen to be a Marine. I see NOTHING wrong with giving the promised reward to our own boys for finishing the job. A Marines job is to do his job for honor, not pay. Besides the unit that does get him will do alright."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #9 January 31, 2005 Nuts - After time, it'll result in people doing a worse job in all areas unless a bonus is involved. If we think the troops are underpaid such that bonuses are needed, then the salary structure needs to be revised for everyone, not special bonusing for some. In your argument - I'd like to see the bickering in how the money would be divided up amongst the intelligence team (who decided where to look), the ground team, the leadership, the executive ranks, the support industries, the equipment suppliers, the non-combat support teams (what about the mechanics and fuelers of the helicopters - do they get anything?), the local citizenry, cooks, chaplains, NCOs, etc, etc, etc, etc, - and then the followup complaints about how unfair the division of the monies was. As a Marine, you are part of a huge team - can you decide who gets what portions of the bucks? Or do you really think it's just the combat squad that goes in? It's the same in private industry, bonuses work for a short period, then, instead of becoming rewards, they slowly turn into entitlements. That means a bonus doesn't result in better work, but a lack of a bonus certainly results in worse work and loss of moral. It only makes sense in terms of short term gratification. Long term consequences have to be considered. I certainly do understand that you and some other servicemen would be resentful of a reward structure you aren't entitled to, but that's an emotional resentment and has nothing to do with the contract you signed. I also believe that most servicemen will serve their country well without the need of additional bribes. The only analogy I see here is the gifts to the 9/11 victims' families. All the the other tragedy victims from previous years (okie city for example) screamed bloody murder because 'they didn't get theirs'. This freakin' lottery mentally is way out of control. edit: to Ron's point - I'm sure if you are in the ground squad that actually nabs him, the interviews and the book rights will be quite lucrative - in addition to the attention and honors that squad will receive immediately. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #10 January 31, 2005 Hi , What about all of the other members of the much bigger team (suport, Intel, cooks & bottle washers etc..) that it would take to put the squad in the right place at the right time .. would they deserve a cut too? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #11 January 31, 2005 QuoteA Marines job is to do his job for honor, not pay. Ask any Marine if he would work without pay? You won't like the answer. Again.. Nothing is wrong with paying that cash out to the soldiers that find the perp.. The state would pay out the lotto to a military person if they bought the winning ticket... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #12 January 31, 2005 Quotethen the salary structure needs to be revised for everyone Agreed.. Soldiers should make at least twice what they are paid now... Nothing is wrong with bonuses... The military is paying bonuses for people to sign up? Why not pay bonuses as an incentive to stay in... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #13 January 31, 2005 QuoteI'm sure if you are in the ground squad that actually nabs him, the interviews and the book rights will be quite lucrative - in addition to the attention and honors that squad will receive immediately. Maybe.. Maybe not.. It might remain classified. As a matter of fact.. We may already have Bin Laden... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #14 January 31, 2005 Quotewould they deserve a cut too? In my opinion the only people diserving a cut are the soldiers DIRECTLY in harms way that are themselves going through the caves and hiking the mountains with 70lbs of gear every day. They diserve it.. Not the cook, or intel guy behind the lines in a heated shelter. Give it to the men that do the work.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 January 31, 2005 I think they are called re-sign or re-upping bonuses. They already exist. But your response is yes, more money, plus bonuses. Where I said more money instead of bonuses. So you don't really agree. And all the other stuff was more pertinent. Maybe if everyone makes twice what they are making now, then we'd all be happy....... Or if they completely eliminated regular pay and gave everyone a constant bi-weekly bonus check? This post is really about complaining about your lifestyle isn't it? Or maybe your squad just caught the SOB and you are setting us up for a grab at the reward? If so, CONGRATS. In this hypothetical, if there was no bonus, would you let him go? not look so hard in the first place? Then maybe public service is not the place for you? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 January 31, 2005 QuoteGive it to the men that do the work.. Now I know you're just posting for escalatory comments. You had me going there for a bit. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #17 January 31, 2005 Then dont be surprised if you end up with crap food (that's if it's improved since I was in!) and some dodgy grid references to navigate from the "softies" at the rear... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #18 January 31, 2005 QuoteIn this hypothetical, if there was no bonus, would you let him go? not look so hard in the first place? Then maybe public service is not the place for you? That was a very ignorant and unwarranted question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #19 January 31, 2005 QuoteThen dont be surprised if you end up with crap food (that's if it's improved since I was in!) and some dodgy grid references to navigate from the "softies" at the rear... Tony The troops are eating 2 MRE's a day. Doesn't matter if you are making crap food. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #20 January 31, 2005 QuoteAsk any Marine if he would work without pay? You won't like the answer. Then they are not real Marines. No where in the oath of enlistment does it say "make a bunch of money". If anyone joins for the money....they are clearly not thinking."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 January 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteIn this hypothetical, if there was no bonus, would you let him go? not look so hard in the first place? Then maybe public service is not the place for you? That was a very ignorant and unwarranted question. Actually it was a rhetorical question. Like this "Do I know what rhetorical means?!!" 1 - You were the one directly stating that a bonus is necessary to do the same job others would do out of duty. 2 - Based on other comments, I can see you're not really serious about the position, just putting it out there as an interesting discussion. It is. 3 - I was just asking to see how far you'd take your argument. FOUND IT! ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #22 January 31, 2005 QuoteIn my opinion the only people diserving a cut are the soldiers DIRECTLY in harms way that are themselves going through the caves and hiking the mountains with 70lbs of gear every day. They diserve it.. Not the cook, or intel guy behind the lines in a heated shelter. Give it to the men that do the work.. As an Infantry man this attitude sickens me....Yeah, I would be the guy kicking in the door and pulling the trigger....But I would not get very far or last very long without the support elements in the rear. Infantry may be the Queen of Battle....But they would not last if they didn't have supplies or food."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 January 31, 2005 QuoteIf anyone joins for the money....they are clearly not thinking. I think it's the haircut that really clutters the mind. The Navy cut tends to stress the scalp less. That's why we drive the boats and fly the planes - so when we drop off the Marines, they get there without having to ask for directions on the way. edit: for completeness - the airmen really can't get away from the country club long enough to deliver the fighters and they can't drive the ships. The Army, well - you know. As for the coast guard, I guess they're ok, they like boats.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #24 January 31, 2005 QuoteThen they are not real Marines. That is bullshit.. They have families and children to feed just like anyone else. Marines need money JUST AS BADLY as civilians do... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #25 January 31, 2005 QuoteYou were the one directly stating that a bonus is necessary to do the same job others would do out of duty. Wrong.. Where did I state it was necessary? READ MY POSTS AGAIN... Attention to detail my friend.. And I was serious. I believe the money should be paid out to the unit finding the terrorists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
