rhino 0 #26 February 18, 2005 QuoteGod is .... an imaginary friend for grown ups...... God help you if you are wrong... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #27 February 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteGod is .... an imaginary friend for grown ups...... God help you if you are wrong... Why? I think it was Kerry Packer, who after suffering from a heart failure and being clinically dead for 8mins before being brought back to life said "Don't wait for heaven, . I've been to the other side and there is nothing there"----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #28 February 18, 2005 The concept of the bible code is to search the text of the bible for equally spaced letter sequences that actually spell other words then assume prediction from these random coincidences of recent past events and of course for our future any old random predictions despite evidence that this is a completely random phenomenon and similar findings are easily made in books like Moby Dick. For example see the message embeded in my post. It's complete hogwash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #29 February 18, 2005 Ive got a good one I cant belive that people could fall for this rubbish! But if they believe in the first place then I guess I can understand. Look someones written gullible in the sky! "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #30 February 18, 2005 OK well I am a Christian, and I do believe in evolution and the Big Bang theory. I am also a scientist by profession. Advancements in the study of the physical world & its mechanisms do not in any way eclipse or negate spiritual/religious beliefs. A more advanced and detailed explanation of the physical phenomena involved with creation can not exclude the spiritual belief in the Entity who set all those physical mechanisms up. As for the thing about the big bang & what came before god, etc.... you are making the mistake of thinking of God as some big magical giant sitting on a throne up in the sky somewhere....sort of like a giant magic human or something. There are four 'elements' to the physical universe that are known to personal human experience: matter, energy, space, and time. The thing to understand is that God exists OUTSIDE of these, including time. So the normal rules that apply to things in the physical universe as we experience it(iie,..time-based causality), do not apply to God. We are temporal beings (and experience the world as such), but God is not. CS Lewis has written a lot of cool stuff about this if you're interested. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #31 February 18, 2005 QuoteThe thing to understand is that God exists OUTSIDE of these, including time. That is your belief... I do not believe that God exists in any form, and certainly not as "some big magical giant sitting on a throne up in the sky somewhere." Now if I was to believe in any sort of God, your description is about the closest to what I would believe in... but to call it God implies (to me) that it is something that thinks and is actually aware of us and concerned with what we are doing... and that is the part I do not believe... so while I somewhat believe in a certain energy or force that is larger than anything we can imagine (and very hard to put into words), it just doesn't work for me to call it God... and I continue to consider myself an atheist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #32 February 18, 2005 Quoteso while I somewhat believe in a certain energy or force that is larger than anything we can imagine (and very hard to put into words), it just doesn't work for me to call it God. and thus the differences between religious types and atheists dissolves into a mere semantics argument That's why I prefer to be a radical "apatheticist" don't know, don't much care, try to be decent to others regardless. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #33 February 18, 2005 QuoteIve got a good one I cant belive that people could fall for this rubbish! But if they believe in the first place then I guess I can understand. Look someones written gullible in the sky! A key part of the bible code searches is that they are found at regular letter spacings, not just any old order. It's still bullshit. An interesting thing happened in the 'debate' over the statistical significance of the findings. Detractors claimed that it was random, the inventor of the bible code system said 'if you find predictions of the assasinations of world leaders in Moby Dick then I'll believe it's random'. The detractor then went and found the assasinations of several leaders including Gandhi in the first chapter. He may still be waiting on a response. Ahh... a quick search found this: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html Ahh.... an even better one pulled from Moby Dick, it predicts the death of the bible code author, gotta love this: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/drosnin.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #34 February 20, 2005 Yer that is a possibility I have considered of, the thing that shits me is that the church and most religious people won't accept what science is proving. The theory that the Earth was created in 7 days and only 5000 years ago has got to go! It is a possibility that something or someone could have kicked off the big bang. "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #35 February 21, 2005 That second ones hell funny! "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #36 February 21, 2005 QuoteIt's been awhile, so forgive me if I miss a detail... but the premise is that there is a code embedded within the Old Testament. It's long been held by Bible scholars that there are hidden messages in the OT, locked until we can break it - effectively a time-lock until computers were invented since it couldn't be done prior to that application. I believe it was Newton (among other famous smart guys) who spent a great deal of time trying to figure it out without success... A journalist went to a mid-east mathematician who had written a computer program to crack the code and wrote about the findings. Basically, the guy took all the letters of the OT in the original language (Aramaic?) or closest thing to it, and strung tham togehter minus the spaces to see if anything significant emerged, which obviously it did. Predictions of future events, politicians, assassins, the holocaust, natural disasters, etc.... all came out in somewhat cryptic messages, easier to interpret after the fact, of couse. Other predictions about things to come, like the apocalypse, were all written in a non-deterministic way though, because they depend on our choices and are not set in stone. Something to the effect of "it can be changed" was part of the messaging. As a control, they put War and Peace throug the same program and got nothing back. Also, there was supposedly an ex-agency American guy who thought the whole was a scam, so he tried to write his own program to debunk the whole thing and ended up proving the mathematician right... Very interesting read... Interesting topic on a futile subject. Funny how a book written by a few deceased, unknown authors gets so much press for so long. Great marketing. I like the spot0on, keen predictions that always come out after the fact of an event. I only wish Vegas would let me do the same. And if you ask for future predictions the only answers you will receive are ones that pertain to vague time frames of sometimes 100's of years and vague venues that consist of entire continents or even more. Jean Dixon isn't even that far off. Either way, no slam to anyone meant here, just vocalizing nausea on the subject of Jebus. Predictions of future events, politicians, assassins, the holocaust, natural disasters, etc.... all came out in somewhat cryptic messages, easier to interpret after the fact, of couse. Ya, it's mathematical deduction when you have the sum, but the X is unknown which can be filled in afterthe fact.... Other predictions about things to come, like the apocalypse, were all written in a non-deterministic way though, because they depend on our choices and are not set in stone. Something to the effect of "it can be changed" was part of the messaging. So the X can be changed based upon the outcome... Also, there was supposedly an ex-agency American guy who thought the whole was a scam, so he tried to write his own program to debunk the whole thing and ended up proving the mathematician right... If it was so right, then how is it that the formula must be re-figured after every major event? The Christian movement likely buys people's reputations to espouse this, "I used to be a non-believer, now I just know there's a Jebus" BS. All you have to do is become a PhD in anthropology, science, or any secular field and sell your reputation, one-time to the righties to denounce your 20+ years schooling for the Bible. Good post and info though - very objective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #37 February 21, 2005 QuoteQuote The prophet Mellville predicts the future An interesting topic from the mathematical point of view, but that is all. Given enough data you can prove anything . The Skeptics Dictionary for additional links That's interesting... My teacher seemed to actually believe this book... He also mentioned that he believes in God and that he doesn't believe in the Big Bang theory... his reason being that no one can explain where the stuff came from that caused the Big Bang... which is a legitimate argument... but, umm... Where did God come from??? I can see I'm going to be arguing with him a lot this semester... I call that the default theory - you can't prove any form of beginings, so there must be a Jesus. I can see I'm going to be arguing with him a lot this semester... And getting a bad grade The main thing with religion vs science is.... Science begs you to prove them wrong; religion dares you to. Who wants to be part of a club that slaps your hand everytime you question things? Aside from that, procreation, evolution (from apes), big bang and all other forms of beginings have yet to be substantially supported, so to make an absolute claim is futile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #38 February 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteGOD is... That doesn't explain anything. You can believe that "God is", but it still doesn't explain what God is or where it came from (though not being able to explain it doesn't necessarily mean that God does not exist). This is the only logical approach to the entire issue of beginings. Cliches are fun, but don't answer questions. Problem is, people stretch faith into being fact, which is dellusional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #39 February 21, 2005 QuoteIt amazes me no end, that people who perhaps hae never investigated or read the Bible Codes are the first to deny them. Similar to those who do not know the Bible, and deny it too. Similar to those who don't know God, and deny Him too They should all be lawyers, perhaps. Bill Cole I guess the burden falls upon those that wish to promote the Bible and religion. Are you going to get a degree in anthropolgy and spend the next 10 years studying it due to someone suggesting Darwinian evolution to be valid? Hardly, so show us the poop. I could send the same back to you by asking if you know Latin well enough to read the Tora (?). It's faith, please don't demand we assume it to be fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #40 February 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteAh, so they were not exact predictions... cryptic messages open to interpretation... That says a lot. Actually there are a multiple predictions, including those of 9/11 that are quite specific. Names of world leaders are included, past and present. Interestingly enough, the journalist (who writes the book in first person) does not claim to be a Christian, yet his findings are quite remarkable. It's always the religious prophets that claim they knew of horrible events, but after the fact. Why didn'tthey inform everyone? Was it God's plan to kill 3k people and to interfere would be blasphemous? KInda cheapens the whole thing when people come up after the fact and say the Bible predicted it 2k years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #41 February 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt amazes me no end, that people who perhaps hae never investigated or read the Bible Codes are the first to deny them. or it might be that those whose profession is pattern analysis recognize that if you predefine your pattern by the results you expect acheive you will find answers in the water stains under your refrigerator... but then the lord speaks in mysterious ways... even through the voices of dogs....if your willing to believe what they have to say... The Son of Sam did and look where it got him..... don't listen to the damn dogs! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #42 February 21, 2005 QuoteHere's an example: Take this phrase: And hast not suffered me to kiss my sons and my daughters? thou hast now done foolishly in so doing. If you start at the R in "daughters," and skip over three letters to the O in "thou," and three more to the S in "hast," and so on, the hidden message "Roswell" is revealed. (see figure 1) They then take that sentence and arrange it in a matrix whatever way they can until they find something else that is close to what that was. in this case, they find three letters: U, F, and O. (see figure 2) Now to some people, this might look like the Bible predicted that UFOs would show up at Roswell, but the thing is in in a book as large as the Bible, any "hidden messages" can be found if you look hard enough for it. Now I get it, the Bible is a giant word jumble!!! Now the Bible has some actual value!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #43 February 21, 2005 QuoteYer that is a possibility I have considered of, the thing that shits me is that the church and most religious people won't accept what science is proving. The theory that the Earth was created in 7 days and only 5000 years ago has got to go! It is a possibility that something or someone could have kicked off the big bang. What I like is the refutation of carbon, isotope and other dating techniques for fosils, but for religious paraphernalia it's legitimate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #44 February 21, 2005 What is that song called, oh yer- Isnt it ironic. They could carbon date the cum stains on jeBus's bed sheets. What man diddn't evolve from monkeys? Every skydiver Ive met is living proof we evolved from monkeys. "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #45 February 21, 2005 QuoteWhat is that song called, oh yer- Isnt it ironic. They could carbon date the cum stains on jeBus's bed sheets. What man diddn't evolve from monkeys? Every skydiver Ive met is living proof we evolved from monkeys. Ya, that coxyc thing that is called a tailbone once carried a tail, as all vestigle organs go. Oh, but it's Jebus's way of testing faith.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #46 February 22, 2005 My faviourite one is the Apendix, so God gave us an organ that we don't use, that gets infected and can kill us if it ist removed??? Thanks alot. Explain that?? "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #47 February 22, 2005 QuoteMy faviourite one is the Apendix, so God gave us an organ that we don't use, that gets infected and can kill us if it ist removed??? Thanks alot. Explain that?? Just because it's not apparent that it serves a very useful purpose now doesn't mean that it didn't in the past. I've heard that it might have served in the development of immune systems of babies in the uterus (like tonsils) before their true immune systems take over. I'm no expert. It's just what I've heard. Still don't understand why it doesn't go away in adulthood, though. I have to have mine taken out in 92. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #48 February 22, 2005 I think it was used in our primate past to help brake down nuts and things. "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #49 February 22, 2005 QuoteMy faviourite one is the Apendix, so God gave us an organ that we don't use, that gets infected and can kill us if it ist removed??? Thanks alot. Explain that?? Ya, a little cyanide pill waiting to explode.... thanks a lot God Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #50 February 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteMy faviourite one is the Apendix, so God gave us an organ that we don't use, that gets infected and can kill us if it ist removed??? Thanks alot. Explain that?? Just because it's not apparent that it serves a very useful purpose now doesn't mean that it didn't in the past. I've heard that it might have served in the development of immune systems of babies in the uterus (like tonsils) before their true immune systems take over. I'm no expert. It's just what I've heard. Still don't understand why it doesn't go away in adulthood, though. I have to have mine taken out in 92. Yes, a vestigle organ - one that the need for it evolved away from. Whales have leg bones, very small. Many creatures have vestigle organs - it's part of the constant evolutionary cycle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
