Kennedy 0 #1 January 26, 2005 These citizens have been proven to be more law-abiding than average. For example, in Florida, 2,675 concealed carry licenses have been revoked due to crime after issuance between October 1987 and December 2004, out of 340,288 valid licenses. This is a crime rate of 786.1 per 100,000, while Florida’s overall crime rate (violent and property crimes) in 2003 was 5182.3. The average Floridian is 6.6 times more likely to be involved in crime than a concealed carry permit holder. http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Division of Licensing, Concealed Weapon/Firearm Summary Report October 1, 1987 - December 31, 2004. An analysis of the arrest rates for all Texans over age 21 found that they are about 7.5 times more likely to be arrested than concealed permit holders. http://www.tsra.com/arrests.htm An Analysis of The Arrest Rate Of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders As Compared To The Arrest Rate Of The Entire Texas Population (1996 - 1998) Revised to include 1999 and 2000 data, copyright 2001, W.E. Sturdevant. also wanted to put this out there for all the doubters and the "where's your link" nay-sayerswitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #2 January 26, 2005 That is surprising? Don't you have to prove that you are not a criminal before they give you the permit?If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 January 26, 2005 QuoteDon't you have to prove that you are not a criminal before they give you the permit? Yes. So why do the anti-gun folks always predict that these people will suddenly turn into lunatics and engage in shootouts on the streets? And as an add-on comment to Kennedy's info, those numbers are for any type of crime, not just gun-related crime. This could be something as harmless as "indecent exposure" for peeing against a tree. The number of concealed carry licensees who subsequently commit a gun crime is very very tiny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #4 January 26, 2005 I think that when you look at the numbers, Soccer moms with red dodge caravans and blond hair have an even lower crime rate. Hence, we should take all the guns away from those who are currently allowed to carry concealed and give all those guns to the aforementioned soccer moms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #5 January 26, 2005 QuoteI think that when you look at the numbers, Soccer moms with red dodge caravans and blond hair have an even lower crime rate. Hence, we should take all the guns away from those who are currently allowed to carry concealed and give all those guns to the aforementioned soccer moms. They would be less likely to be mugged or raped. Yeah that sounds like a good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #6 January 26, 2005 FWIW Here in Texas, part of the application process for a Concealed Handgun License is a very thorough background check. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 January 26, 2005 QuoteThese citizens have been proven to be more law-abiding than average. For example, in Florida, 2,675 concealed carry licenses have been revoked due to crime after issuance between October 1987 and December 2004, out of 340,288 valid licenses. This is a crime rate of 786.1 per 100,000, while Florida’s overall crime rate (violent and property crimes) in 2003 was 5182.3. The average Floridian is 6.6 times more likely to be involved in crime than a concealed carry permit holder. That doesn't appear to be true. 786.1 people per 100k, versus 5182 crimes per 100k is what is says, right? Since criminals commit more than one crime per year, 6.6x is not correct. More reassuring is that of the 2675 crimes committed after the CCW issued, only 155 involved a firearm. 155 gun related crimes out of about a million CCW holders clearly blows out the notions of the wild west. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #8 January 26, 2005 QuoteFWIW Here in Texas, part of the application process for a Concealed Handgun License is a very thorough background check. I believe that is the case in all concealed-carry states, therefore stating that CCW's have crime rates lower than the general public is like saying that skydivers are better at RW than the general population. One should hope so! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #9 January 27, 2005 Good point! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #10 January 27, 2005 QuoteI believe that is the case in all concealed-carry states, therefore stating that CCW's have crime rates lower than the general public is like saying that skydivers are better at RW than the general population. One should hope so! Err, not quite. 1 in say 6,000 might have an A licence, but 5999 don't have criminal records. 1 in 20 seem more reasonable? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #11 January 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteI believe that is the case in all concealed-carry states, therefore stating that CCW's have crime rates lower than the general public is like saying that skydivers are better at RW than the general population. One should hope so! Err, not quite. 1 in say 6,000 might have an A licence, but 5999 don't have criminal records. 1 in 20 seem more reasonable? I don't know what the numbers are and don't really care. I was simply trying to point out that CCW holders ought to have lower crime rates than the general public because they've already been checked for a criminal record, just like skydivers ought to be better at RW than the general public because they've already had training. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #12 January 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteFWIW Here in Texas, part of the application process for a Concealed Handgun License is a very thorough background check. I believe that is the case in all concealed-carry states, therefore stating that CCW's have crime rates lower than the general public. Absolutely right. CCW Permit Holfers have been "positively vetted" and proven to be of good character & trustworthy - hence they are trusted. Of course, this is the exact argument for ALL firearms holders to be similarly vetted & licensed! [sound of the favourite hobby-horses in the distance but galloping closer] Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #13 January 27, 2005 Quote I was simply trying to point out that CCW holders ought to have lower crime rates than the general public because they've already been checked for a criminal record, just like skydivers ought to be better at RW than the general public because they've already had training. Yes, but the anti gun crowd all claim that there will be shootouts in the street everytime a state tries to pass a carry law. And these numbers clearly show thats not true."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #14 January 27, 2005 QuoteI think that when you look at the numbers, Soccer moms with red dodge caravans and blond hair have an even lower crime rate. Hence, we should take all the guns away from those who are currently allowed to carry concealed and give all those guns to the aforementioned soccer moms. My wife is all that and she already has her own gun and permit, thankyouverymuch. I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but, if they know how to use them, what's wrong with "soccer moms" packing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #15 January 27, 2005 QuoteMy wife is all that and she already has her own gun and permit, thankyouverymuch. I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but, if they know how to use them, what's wrong with "soccer moms" packing? I could care less, it was sarcasm indicating that the numbers don't mean anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #16 January 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteMy wife is all that and she already has her own gun and permit, thankyouverymuch. I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but, if they know how to use them, what's wrong with "soccer moms" packing? I could care less, it was sarcasm indicating that the numbers don't mean anything. NO numbers stating that CCW holders are more law-abiding than the general publice are going to convince the Brady bunch and their sycophants...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #17 January 27, 2005 QuoteNO numbers stating that CCW holders are more law-abiding than the general publice are going to convince the Brady bunch and their sycophants... Well they are by definition since they have to pass that test before they get the license......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 January 27, 2005 Then why your comment about the numbers not meaning anything?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #19 January 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteNO numbers stating that CCW holders are more law-abiding than the general publice are going to convince the Brady bunch and their sycophants... Well they are by definition since they have to pass that test before they get the license......... So then you understand that the Bradys, VPC, and other gun banners are incapable of hearing or dealing with the truth? You understand that they've made up their minds and we shouldn't "confuse them with the facts?"witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakbrother 0 #20 January 27, 2005 Well, I don;t know what you were getting at in starting this thread, but statements equivalent to: "People who have been vetted and shown to be law abiding have a lower crime rate than those who haven't" seems a waste of bandwidth to me.. . www.freak-brother.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #21 January 27, 2005 >So then you understand that the Bradys, VPC, and other gun banners >are incapable of hearing or dealing with the truth? You are confusing two different concepts. The first is the "CCW are more law abiding" thing. This isn't that suprising; it's like saying "drivers with driver's licenses obey more traffic laws than drivers who are unlicensed." Well, duh. The second is that "easy access to guns promotes criminal use of them." While you may agree or disagree with that statement, it has nothing to do with the first one. It's like saying "when will people admit that cars make people safer, if it's a given that licensed drivers are more law abiding than people who aren't licensed?" A non sequitur. And yes, you could just as well make a car analogy and claim that the Brady bunch would try to ban cars if they could because they can kill you blah blah. Different argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #22 January 27, 2005 Quotestatements equivalent to: "People who have been vetted and shown to be law abiding have a lower crime rate than those who haven't" seems a waste of bandwidth to me. Kinda makes you wonder why the anti-gun folks are so hell-bent against law-abiding citizens being licensed to carry guns, don't it? It's kind of like saying; "I'm against people driving cars, even if they are trained, tested and licensed!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 January 27, 2005 QuoteKinda makes you wonder why the anti-gun folks are so hell-bent against law-abiding citizens being licensed to carry guns, don't it? The SF Supervisor, Chris Daly, behind the vote to ban guns in the city lost his temper yesterday and went into a rampage when the City chose not to send a million dollars to the relief funds. This comes less than a year after he was nearly censured (ooh, that hurts!) for telling the public at a meeting to fuck off. If you had as little control over yourself as he does, you'd probably be afraid of the armed public too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #24 January 28, 2005 QuoteThe SF Supervisor, Chris Daly, behind the vote to ban guns in the city lost his temper yesterday and went into a rampage... If you had as little control over yourself as he does, you'd probably be afraid of the armed public too. That gets into the whole psychology of an anti-gun person, which can be interesting. One theory is that, like Chris Daly, they don't trust themself to control their own emotions and actions, and therefore are afraid to own a gun. Furthermore, they presume that everyone else must be just like them, because they don't want to admit that they are more out of control than everyone else in society. So, given all that, their decision to distrust people with guns is logical. The only problem is, their presumption is wrong about most other people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #25 January 28, 2005 Between the name, the lust for power, the issues with projection, and the list of irrational fears, I really have to wonder if that guy has relatives in Chicago.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
