AdD 1 #1 January 25, 2005 QuoteThe long-awaited Iraqi elections are to be held next Sunday but Chomsky calls talk about a sovereign, independent, democratic Iraq a "poor joke". He says: "I don't see any possibility of Britain and the US allowing a sovereign independent Iraq; that's almost inconceivable. It will have a Shia majority. Probably as a first step it will try to reconstitute relations with Iran. Its not that they are pro- Khamenei [Iran's Supreme Leader], they'll want to be independent. But it's a natural relationship and even under Saddam they were beginning to restore relations with Iran. "It might instigate some degree of autonomy in the largely Shia regions of Saudi Arabia which happens to be where most of the oil is. You can project not too far in the future a possible Shia-dominated region including Iran, Iraq, oil-producing regions of Saudi Arabia which really would monopolise the main sources of the world's oil. Is the US going to permit that? It is out of the question. Furthermore, an independent Iraq would try to restore its position as a great, perhaps leading power in the Arab world. Which means it will try to rearm and confront the regional enemy, which is Israel. It may well develop WMD to counter Israel's. It is inconceivable that the US and the UK will permit this." Noam Chomsky interview on Zmag.orgLife is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #2 January 25, 2005 Interesting point. If the freely elected theocracy of Iraq circa 2010 decides to develop WMD's, would we threaten military action to stop them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #3 January 26, 2005 QuoteInteresting point. If the freely elected theocracy of Iraq circa 2010 decides to develop WMD's, would we threaten military action to stop them? I suppose that would depend on several factors...: Has the country displayed aggressive tendencies? Have they invaded neighbouring countries - forced regime change? Are they completely dominating the region? Have they built up their military way beyond what's needed for defence? Do they (did they) have WMDs and have they demonstrated a willingness to use them? Have the UN passed resolutions against their activities? And have they deliberately ignored these resolutions for years? These factors are ultimately what decided the coalition that a regime change in Iraq was neccessary. It's patently obvious that the UN resolutions and the country's continuous refusal to comply with the UN resolutions was the deciding factor and justification for forcing the regime change. Along with many others, I believe that this was the right decision. For the UN to be effective in promoting peaceful co-existence between people / groups / nations of the world, it's resolutions MUST have teeth & consequences. It must be clear to all thata regime which ignores the overwhelming voice of it's peers in the UN faces forced regime change as a consequence of it's actions and behaviour. In that way world stability may yet be achieved and the waste of war can be better used. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 January 27, 2005 QuoteIraqi democracy 'inconceivable' Germany, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Japan, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #5 January 27, 2005 OK, look at the source... Noam Chomsky. One of the worlds greatest supporters of communism!!!! A person who would love to see the the US fail, and capitalism fail where ever it exists... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #6 January 28, 2005 Quote Germany, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Japan, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Absolutely Impossible. History proved that. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #7 January 29, 2005 QuoteQuote Germany, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Japan, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Absolutely Impossible. History proved that. Some people are comparing Iraq to Vietnam, and saying that we should immediately pull out. Well, let's compare what happened in our Vietnam pullout, compared to the two examples above, where we stuck around and installed democracy and stability. In Vietnam, the communists took over and murder hundreds of thousands of people. And of course, there was that whole Pol Pot thing. If we pull out of Iraq too soon, the insurgents will massacre everyone who had any association with America, and will return the country to its previous tyranny. Vietnam proves that pulling out of Iraq too soon is the wrong move. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #8 January 29, 2005 Read alot of Chomsky have you? ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #9 January 29, 2005 hmmmmm i find it amazing that you can vote in the iraq election from anywhere, weather you live there or not.... but here...if you go to the wrong place, forget to cross your T or dot your I, your vote doesnt count. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #10 January 29, 2005 and you are saying there should be no rules? Without them how could you run a election? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #11 January 29, 2005 QuoteDoes Noam Chomsky hate America, as Fox News personality Sean Hannity might put it? It depends on what your definition of America is. If America is defined by its global military presence, then Chomsky despises it to its core. He's been around long enough to see "full-spectrum dominance" for the sucker bet it is; an enrichment scheme for those who benefit from US dominance of "mineral-rich" states. But if you define America as the sum of its people, their aspirations, their hopes for the future, then Chomsky can't be said to hate America. The thousands who heard him speak on a balmy Tuesday evening at Gainesville's O'Connell Center would attest, in fact, to Chomsky's love for America and its people, as embodied by his unsparing quest for truth in the briar patch of lies that is Washington politics. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #12 January 29, 2005 Quotei find it amazing that you can vote in the iraq election from anywhere, weather you live there or not.... I find it amazing that you are not aware of voting procedures for "expatriats", as much as it has been in the news lately. Yep, citizens of Iraq who are currently living elsewhere, can vote in the election in their home country. Likewise, Americans living or working overseas, can also vote in American elections. Do you disagree with that policy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #13 January 30, 2005 QuoteInteresting point. If the freely elected theocracy of Iraq circa 2010 decides to develop WMD's, would we threaten military action to stop them? To any puppet government we place into power: only if it benefits us. We want so much atonomy, but not too much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #14 January 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteIraqi democracy 'inconceivable' Germany, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Japan, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Korean Communism defeated. Viet Namese Communism defeated. NOT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #15 January 30, 2005 QuoteGermany, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Japan, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! I think these examples can be a little misleading. Germany already had had experience with democracy (unlike Japan). But both countries had strong industrial infrastructures and the ability to mass produce consumer goods. Democracy tends to do better in industrially developped countries, as it usually translates into an important middle class, which is the basis for a democracy. I am not saying that Iraq will not turn out to be a successful democracy, merely that these examples are a little flawed in my opinion. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #16 January 31, 2005 John, Now were learning through hard intellegence who the REAL INSURGENTS are. They were trained by Saddam months before our invasion to free the Iraqi people. They merely hooked up with this Zarquawi character. We'll they're loosers and their loosing. The Iraqi people showed that today. Our course is right in Iraq and the Iraqi people are well educated and given the chance with our help they are going to make the right choice for democracy. We need to have the resolve to stay the course. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #17 January 31, 2005 Quote Germany, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Japan, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! John. I think you're confused. In Both Germany and Japan, 1940, the US was not even in the war. It took the US over 3 years to join the 3rd World War, which started in September 1939, not December 1942. Are you taking credit for democracy 3 years BEFORE the US even joined the war? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #18 January 31, 2005 QuoteQuote Germany, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! Japan, 1940: democracy 'inconceivable'! I think you're confused. In Both Germany and Japan, 1940, the US was not even in the war.It took the US over 3 years to join the 3rd World War, which started in September 1939, not December 1942. Are you taking credit for democracy 3 years BEFORE the US even joined the war? I think it is you who is confused. I wasn't giving anyone credit for anything. I was simply pointing out that if anyone had suggested that those countries at those times would soon be democracies, no one would have believed them. And yet they indeed came to be. The same can happen in Iraq, if we stick to the plan. So those examples should be lessons to those who claim that democracy in Iraq is 'inconceivable'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #19 January 31, 2005 "Those countries......." You really never heard/noticed/read about some differences in f.e.: cultures? Since thousands of years? Small differences which perhaps might make it impossible to install your democracy for everybody? In Iraq, f.e. ? Inconceivable. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
