Racism and sexism are alive and well in the US

[jdhill 0]

Your response only offered a response (and a weak one IMO) for the minority community... why do YOU deserve reparations?

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How far
fetched is it to say that without AA minorities would
not thrive?

The job of the government is to set the conditions for EVERYONE to thrive, not just minorities... perhaps it was needed at one point in time... it is time to LEVEL the field again, not keep it slanted for or against any group.

There are minorities that live in my neighborhood, some affluent, some not... they go to the same schools, have the same opportunities... some of them act like morons, others don't (the same can be said for non-minorities)... which ones of them succeed has nothing to do with me or AA...

I used to recurit for the Army in East St. Louis... I've been to the high school there, its a rough place, no doubt. But who makes it rough? The building was no worse than other schools in my area, the teachers and administration were qualified and caring... so who is squandering the opportunity? And why should they get a leg up over anyone?

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[gravityizsexy 0]

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My previous
"So am I hearing that YOU took advantage of opportunties either earned, or given to you but yet you still think others should be rewarded for NOT taking advantage of the same? "

Was NOT in ref to AA, but to educational opportunities etc AND your hard work and GOOD decisions.

My case is very different, I come from a well off family
who gave me the best that was offered. Others are not
so lucky.

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As for "them" not being aware of the assistance out there, excuse me but, BULL $HIT. I see it everyday. It is a CHOICE. Its the Im gonna bleed the suckers dry by taking ADVANTAGE of the social programs in place ie the housing, food stamps, welfare, etc etc etc and make "The Man" pay for my exisitance because THEY owe me. Thats the biggest problem, the minority TRULY believes that the majority OWES them.

I highly doubt anybody would continue to subject themselves
to those conditions if they knew a way out. And, I find
it repulsive that lifestyle is being glorified to today's
youth who live like that. Like it's a good thing. You
say you see it everyday, I don't.. so I am unsure. But
if in fact they do depend on the belief that "the man"
owes them... they will be very dissapointed. When in
fact they probably do (oops! did I just say that?).

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It is a problem that lacks a GOOD solution. If you dispense with all the social programs, then people that TRULY need them are denied, but if you dont do something, you perpetuate the problem.

Very true something needs to be done, as a collective.
Not as a left or right wing of perception. But a solution
that benefits both. As it is right now, qualified people
with potential to lead breakthroughs in technology or
other fields will not get that opportunity because of AA
but if it is taken away, qualified people with potential
to lead breakthroughts in technology or other fields
will not get that opportunity because of racism.

Funny how we established that racism and AA are one
in the same.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[white_falcon 0]

Quote: "Funny how we established that racism and AA are one in the same."

"WE" didn't establish that, its been apparent to many for many years.

As I said before, a skunk by any other name.....

scott

[gravityizsexy 0]

yup

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[gravityizsexy 0]

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And why should they get a leg up over anyone?

J

I am too exhausted to carry that one on by myself.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Ron 10]

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But
if in fact they do depend on the belief that "the man"
owes them... they will be very dissapointed. When in
fact they probably do (oops! did I just say that?).

Could you please explain this?...I don't follow it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[dorbie 0]

I guess Bush is a racist now for making the same observation, that blacks get short changed due to lower life expectancy.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050126/1063516.asp

It now looks like this was just a stalking horse for some kind of policy change based on life expectancy to get minority support for social security reform.

[gravityizsexy 0]

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But
if in fact they do depend on the belief that "the man"
owes them... they will be very dissapointed. When in
fact they probably do (oops! did I just say that?).

Could you please explain this?...I don't follow it.

I meant to subtly voice my opinion that maybe "the man"
does owe...

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Ron 10]

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I meant to subtly voice my opinion that maybe "the man"
does owe...

Where are your ancestors from?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jdhill 0]

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"the man"
does owe...

Sentiment like that (someone owes me) is what keeps groups from fulfilling their potential. It also promotes other groups to resent and resist groups that hold that sentiment.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[gravityizsexy 0]

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"the man"
does owe...

Sentiment like that (someone owes me) is what keeps groups from fulfilling their potential. It also promotes other groups to resent and resist groups that hold that sentiment.

J

There's still alot of anger behind those words for me,
however I do not expect or feel the need to go after
reparation. I do not hold individuals accountable for
something that happened before their time. I also
cannot be like, "well, those times are over.... bygones."
I'm at a point in my life where math and science
consumes my drive for life achievements, and silly
barriers like color, race, religion, would do nothing
but limit the mind. I embrace EVERYBODY I meet with
warm, open, arms. Don't get me wrong, Im not looking
for revenge or trying to settle a vendetta. I just want
to live my life without being subjected to the ignorance
of others. It's frustrating when theres no other logical
explanation for me to be who I am without being the
son of a famous rapper, ball-player, or ambassador. It
really gets me mad. I go through this daily. I join
the military to get away from it, and it follows. I goto
different countries.... it follows. Racism is a fucking
disease and it makes me sick. I can't even goto
Africa without being out of place... But like I said before
I don't see change comming anytime soon. and
MTV is just making it worse.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[crwslut 0]

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And you've had them. Next year will be the 40th anniversary for Affirmative Action. No problem, historically speaking, with Affirmative Action, but when is enough, enough?

Im going to go out on a limb here and say it will be enough
when black and white people get together and make lots
of babies. But from the discrimination I
witness from both sides, I don't see a solution forming
anytime soon.

I suspect you're right. You know, we came so far. As a society we reexamined our values and made good strides. Then we kinda stalled ...maybe even backslid a bit.

Affirative Action came about with the unlikely alliance of tree huggers and fearful, monied whites on the right. The former cause ...well, it's what they do. The latter, cause they saw economic disaster. The latter saw AA as appeasement cause they feared (not unrealistically) racial uprising.

AA (which had been around in bits and pieces since Brown v Board of Education) was born in the 60's.

Lynden Johnson was the first to use the term 'Affirmative Action' and it was a major component of his 'Great society" (interestingly, the other piece was his 'War on Crime' for a kind of 'pay em to chill, shoot em if they don't sort of approach to race relations).

AA programs were probably the single most effective tool for addressing the greatest oppressor - economics (and the less tangible hopes and dreams).

So good things were done, but the question is, how much longer to you expect society to bite this bullet? Remember, we're talking 40 years of favored employment status for an ever expanding list of 'minorities' (everybody wanted on that bandwagon).

What we have now is white males, two generations removed from the societal and individual injustices of their grandparents (great-grandparents if they live in the south :).

Serioursly, how many more generations do you expect to keep paying this price. Whatever our criteria for fairness, I think you have to admit it must end at some point (with lots of babies, perhaps). So give me your best guess in number of years. How much longer?

What could possibly go wrong?

[gravityizsexy 0]

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And you've had them. Next year will be the 40th anniversary for Affirmative Action. No problem, historically speaking, with Affirmative Action, but when is enough, enough?

Im going to go out on a limb here and say it will be enough
when black and white people get together and make lots
of babies. But from the discrimination I
witness from both sides, I don't see a solution forming
anytime soon.

I suspect you're right. You know, we came so far. As a society we reexamined our values and made good strides. Then we kinda stalled ...maybe even backslid a bit.

Affirative Action came about with the unlikely alliance of tree huggers and fearful, monied whites on the right. The former cause ...well, it's what they do. The latter, cause they saw economic disaster. The latter saw AA as appeasement cause they feared (not unrealistically) racial uprising.

AA (which had been around in bits and pieces since Brown v Board of Education) was born in the 60's.

Lynden Johnson was the first to use the term 'Affirmative Action' and it was a major component of his 'Great society" (interestingly, the other piece was his 'War on Crime' for a kind of 'pay em to chill, shoot em if they don't sort of approach to race relations).

AA programs were probably the single most effective tool for addressing the greatest oppressor - economics (and the less tangible hopes and dreams).

So good things were done, but the question is, how much longer to you expect society to bite this bullet? Remember, we're talking 40 years of favored employment status for an ever expanding list of 'minorities' (everybody wanted on that bandwagon).

What we have now is white males, two generations removed from the societal and individual injustices of their grandparents (great-grandparents if they live in the south :).

Serioursly, how many more generations do you expect to keep paying this price. Whatever our criteria for fairness, I think you have to admit it must end at some point (with lots of babies, perhaps). So give me your best guess in number of years. How much longer?

fairness? Ask the Jewish what it would take for them to
forgive the NSP. I believe slavery is wrong and cruel,
I would not wish it upon anybody, but mathematically
slavery must again be annunciated to acheive this
"fairness".. As for a prediction to the appropriate time to decomission Affirmitive Action... I don't know,
when people start using the word nigger in its intended
form.

EDITED:

Not to cop out on the question... but I would hope to see
things change within my lifetime... but ballpark figure,
Im going to go ahead and say 80-120 years

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[rehmwa 2]

Thinking points:

How would you respond to Cristel in the following post concerning her position on today's Germans and their responsibility towards what the Nazi's did?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1454645#1454645

What about descendents of former Americans who now have citizenship in another country? What do they owe?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[beowulf 1]

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When in
fact they probably do (oops! did I just say that?).

What about the people in Africa that sold your ancestors into slavery? What do they owe??

[Ron 10]

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I believe slavery is wrong and cruel,
I would not wish it upon anybody, but mathematically
slavery must again be annunciated to acheive this
"fairness"..

So the only way for everyone to be fair and even, you must own me?

Even though I never owned a slave....Of my family for that matter.

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As for a prediction to the appropriate time to decomission Affirmitive Action... I don't know,
when people start using the word nigger in its intended
form.

Does that include blacks saying it?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[gravityizsexy 0]

sucks don't it.....
NO MAN!!! I already said I'm strongly against slavery
what course of action do you think would settle things?

and
yes, of course, I meant it to go both ways...

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Ron 10]

You did not answer this:

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In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I believe slavery is wrong and cruel,
I would not wish it upon anybody, but mathematically
slavery must again be annunciated to acheive this
"fairness"..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So the only way for everyone to be fair and even, you must own me?

Even though I never owned a slave....Of my family for that matter.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[crwslut 0]

fairness? Ask the Jewish what it would take for them to
forgive the NSP. I believe slavery is wrong and cruel,
I would not wish it upon anybody, but mathematically
slavery must again be annunciated to acheive this
"fairness".. As for a prediction to the appropriate time to decomission Affirmitive Action... I don't know,
when people start using the word nigger in its intended
form.

EDITED:

Not to cop out on the question... but I would hope to see
things change within my lifetime... but ballpark figure,
Im going to go ahead and say 80-120 years

-----------------

Over a century of favored employment status?!?!?!

I've been all for AA in the past, but you ask too much. You expect eight generations of whites to keep paying for injustices committed two centuries in the past???? My great-great-great-great-great-great grand children should continue to pay a price for what my great grandfathers may have done??? You actually believe that to be fair???

What could possibly go wrong?

[Kennedy 0]

What about people who aren't in the group supported by affirmative action but whose family arrived in the country after the end of slavery?

Why should people who had nothing to do with it pay/suffer?

Why should someone suffer or benefit solely because of their race?

Isn't that what we're supposed to be fighting AGAINST ?!?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[RoadRash 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1234123#1234123

My shortened opinion on reparations......

And this thread has some further opinions of "slave reparations"...:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=880364#880364


In anthropology (my major at Purdue), we are "discouraged" from using the word race because of the stigma associated with the word, however, we do use the words "ethnicity" or "nationality" in its place. I'm just curious as to what it will take for people to understand that "nationality" or "ethnicity" doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to do the job. Unfortunately, I know of a few instances when I was chosen to do a "job" or fill a position at local businesses because they didn't have "enough" females on staff......how sad is that......

Affirmative action, reparations, they are both forms of racism, based on the belief that if you give a person something they will be successful...How does the saying go: Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day; Teach a man to fish, he will live for a lifetime. So why do we continually want to keep giving people a fish, instead of teaching them to fish?

$0.02 and nothing more...

P.S. Yes, I am too lazy to make clickys...so sue me...no really, don't......

~R+R...One more thing...How can you calculate a human life? How do you put a price on a person's life? Answer me that......

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[freeryde13 0]

racism didn't end like you think it did. i can give you a few examples.

-i used to be in a construction union. minorities where only laborers and there where a few apprentice electricians.

-a puerto rican friend of mine served in the military for 8 years running heavy constuction machinery. a white guy of the same experience got in the union at full pay. my friend had to go through a 6 year apprentice ship program after fighting just to get in.

- another puerto rican friend served in the marines for 8 years and is a registered emt. but can't get in the nyc fire department even though he passed all the tests. i know irish guys that get in just because they're daddies are firemen. the nyfd is like 95 % white in nyc.

i could go on and on but maybe you see the point. don't get me wrong , things are getting better and will continue to get better. but we are not there yet my man .

_________________________________________

people see me as a challenge to their balance

[gravityizsexy 0]

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Thinking points:

How would you respond to Cristel in the following post concerning her position on today's Germans and their responsibility towards what the Nazi's did?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1454645#1454645

What about descendents of former Americans who now have citizenship in another country? What do they owe?

I thought I made it clear that it is impossible to hold
somebody accountable for actions they DID NOT commit!
I thought I made that perfectly clear. Your asking me for
everything else except resolution! Why do native american
descendants get free education in AMERICA??? Who
owes them? Of course they are owed! Unless you want
to be like "we took their land, fair and square". Is that
how you feel about blacks in america? That we allowed
ourselves to work for peanuts and poverty and be taken
away from our homeland., and the fact that we're survived
makes everything OK? It's torture to sit through
a civil liberties class and watch the educational videos
displayed. You know the ones, the hoses, the dogs,
the police batons.. the struggle. So if you want to
challenge me on reasons as to why I'm not entitled
to my pain, your better off not responding. So don't
get mad that the black population walks around
freely with a chip on their shoulder. I would hope
nobody walks around directing anger twards anybody
simply because they are white. But IT DOES happen,
just as white people walk around directing anger twards
somebody just because they are black. This is my
reason for continuing to post in this thread.

If your still stuck on AA causing inequality, then I believe
it to be more necessary than you know. (For the
survival of African-Americans).

EDITED:

NOTE: This post wasn't meant for just you...

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Kennedy 0]

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If your still stuck on AA causing inequality, then I believe
it to be more necessary than you know. (For the
survival of African-Americans).

Isn't that kind of demeaning to tell someone they can't get by without the government giving them a leg up?

I shouldn't be given a job just because I'm white, and you shouldn't be given a job just because you're black.

Why were race-based-admissions considered bad racism when whites were benefiting, but race-based-admissions are good and not racism when blacks are benefiting?

Really, why should someone suffer or benefit solely because of their race?

Isn't that what we're supposed to be fighting AGAINST ?!?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[wmw999 2,560]

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Really, why should someone suffer or benefit solely because of their race?

Most of us who are white are already benefitting because of our race.

Sales clerks don't keep a particularly sharp eye on us when we walk into stores, particularly with expensive merchandise.

Driving an expensive car, and having a beeper, isn't seen as an indication that you're a drug dealer.

You probably already look like the guy who's trying to hire you, or like his well-groomed kid would look.

If a friend has a baby out of wedlock, it's an unfortunate accident, and not a sign that yet again, your people don't know how to control themselves.

These are all subtle. But they add up.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)