Racism and sexism are alive and well in the US

[happythoughts 0]

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People only think that discrimination is a good idea when it benefits them. When equality means the removal of an advantage (true equality), a cry of outrage occurs.

Affirmitive Action exists BECAUSE racism exists!!!

AA is discrimination - preferencial treatment is being given to people on the basis of sex or race. I can't think of a better definition.

The idea that it is ok to do to innocent parties because someone else did it first is illogical.

I know that racism and sexism exist. It is against the law. If you find the guilty parties, please punish them.

If I am robbed by a non-male person, can I go to 10 women and demand that they return my money? According to the logic of AA, that is what should be done.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Typical missdirect from your side.

really, then show me how it is different.

[gravityizsexy 0]

Happy a racist. I fully understand where your disagreement twards
AA would come from. BUT!!!! I think AA is beyond necessary
in todays world. and your anaogly does not do this certain
topic justice. I do not believe it's just a topic either, it is a
crisis. Let's say these women kept robbing you, everytime
you left your house. You could learn to live like that, or
something could be done. I believe that Affirmitive Action
is necesarry because statistically minorities are outed of
rightly due jobs based on racism. It is very sad it has to
be this way, that a report to congress has to be summarized
with a primary report of intended balanced numbers representing
INDIVIDUALS for a purpose to capitalize. Nevertheless, The way this country
is run there is not and will never be a solution to equality
among the masses. We all know what racism is here
and I find it heartbreaking that some must get a technical
definitive of it from a dictionary. You want my answer?
AA is racist... obviously!!! no need to look that up.
Racism begets racism, and today... We are not ready
to give AA the boot.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Ron 10]

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Affirmitive Action exists BECAUSE racism exists!!!

Affirmitive Action is racism!!!

Some just support it since it helps them.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Typical missdirect from your side.

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really, then show me how it is different

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So, women tend to have more babies than men, does that mean we should not employ them?

We are talking about life spans and retirement.
Most retirement aged ladies are not giving birth.

You threw this in to miss-direct, and that was your only reason for doing it.

Your "logic" is quite bad. But it is funny so please don't stop now.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[white_falcon 0]

Although I agree that racisim is alive and well (tounge in cheek there), a skunk by any other name smells just as bad, and AA is a (one) skunk.

You nor anyone else, can justify to me the "rightousness" of a less qualified minority being employed over a more qualified applicant because of AA measures and, sadly, as I am sure you are aware, that happens all the time. (thus, the "other" skunk.

Scott

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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We are talking about life spans and retirement.

And the burden that puts on the economy....

Pregnant working women put a fair burden on the economy, specially for small and mid-sized business.

Not that much different.

[gravityizsexy 0]

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Although I agree that racisim is alive and well (tounge in cheek there), a skunk by any other name smells just as bad, and AA is a (one) skunk.

You nor anyone else, can justify to me the "rightousness" of a less qualified minority being employed over a more qualified applicant because of AA measures and, sadly, as I am sure you are aware, that happens all the time. (thus, the "other" skunk.

Scott

True indeed, however... the keyword there is qualified,
and why not justify it if the exact opposite is going on,
"the qualified applicant being employed over a qualified
minority because of (x) measures" (short play on words, but still the same). It's an attempt to balance.
A good attempt if you ask me. If you take away AA
I for damn sure want my reparations.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[white_falcon 0]

What raparations?? AA has nothing to do with reparations.

And as far as qualifications, I didnt say DONT hire the QUALIFIED minority, just dont impose ANYONE on the business owner / company.

[happythoughts 0]

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I think AA is beyond necessary
in todays world. and your anaogly does not do this certain
topic justice. I do not believe it's just a topic either, it is a
crisis. Let's say these women kept robbing you, everytime
you left your house.

You are probably right, it was a poor analogy.

I was stung a little recently because I found out that AA provides federal funds for businesses that hire women to receive management training. In essence, part of their salary is paid by the govt. Therefore, they are cheaper to hire.

My basic problem is this, my taxes go to support a govt that robs me of a job. There is something essentially wrong with that picture. You realize that this law discriminates against non-white males too, right?

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Nevertheless, The way this country is run there is not and will never be a solution to equality among the masses.

It has little to do with the govt. It seems to be the same everywhere. The only place that I have seen it work is the Bahamas but the culture is essentially different. The US does not have good role models.

[Ron 10]

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I for damn sure want my reparations

Why do you deserve them?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[white_falcon 0]

Exatly my question Ron.

Scott

[gravityizsexy 0]

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What raparations?? AA has nothing to do with reparations.

And as far as qualifications, I didnt say DONT hire the QUALIFIED minority, just dont impose ANYONE on the business owner / company.

Evidentally imposition is necessary, being that without
AA alot of minorities would not have the jobs they do,
essientally keeping them locked inside such places as
ghetto's, prodjects, slums, etc... the very same places
that breeds "unacceptable formalities" a.k.a. negative
stereotypes. The stomping grounds for things such as
gangster rap, baggy clothes, slang, etc... a subculture
that represents everything that is shunned and spit on
by upper-class societies. Which is NOT fine, because
most of the inhabitants of these areas happen to be
black. Still a minority that is still looked upon as uncivilized,
undeserving, unintelligent, etc... Im sure everyone knows
about the "golden rule". So I'll skip the definition, the
upper-class sets the standard for american life. And
as their mentality trickles down the food chain, minorities
are left at the bottom of the totem poles when making
decisions. Thus my reasons for accepting AA.
Educating minorities puts them in positions to induct
their children into an "american" society. I'm talking
good schools, financial exploration, oppurtunity.
The reason I bring up reparations is because without AA
being a driving force for the minor community to establish
themselves, I'd be broke... Fuck that!!! Referring to my
post in which I firmly protested against the benefactors
of slavery.

EDITED TO SAY:
btw - I never once took a position forced upon Affirmitive
Action,.... that I know about anyway.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[crwslut 0]

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Although I agree that racisim is alive and well (tounge in cheek there), a skunk by any other name smells just as bad, and AA is a (one) skunk.

You nor anyone else, can justify to me the "rightousness" of a less qualified minority being employed over a more qualified applicant because of AA measures and, sadly, as I am sure you are aware, that happens all the time. (thus, the "other" skunk.

Scott

True indeed, however... the keyword there is qualified,
and why not justify it if the exact opposite is going on,
"the qualified applicant being employed over a qualified
minority because of (x) measures" (short play on words, but still the same). It's an attempt to balance.
A good attempt if you ask me. If you take away AA
I for damn sure want my reparations.

And you've had them. Next year will be the 40th anniversary for Affirmative Action. No problem, historically speaking, with Affirmative Action, but when is enough, enough?

What could possibly go wrong?

[Ron 10]

How can you say:

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The reason I bring up reparations is because without AA
being a driving force for the minor community to establish
themselves, I'd be broke...

And then say:

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btw - I never once took a position forced upon Affirmitive
Action,....

If you never took an AA position than you would still be where you are now.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[base428 1]

If you can't get the free benefits of AA, then you want the goverment to pay you? Sorry, but I just couldn't sit back and NOT comment on this one. In my opinion, the reason you have AA is due to statements like the one you just made. Everyone is looking for a handout these days and if they cry "racism" in the process, then the government leaders give in. Sorry dude, but you'll never get anywhere in life (or in parachuting) if you think like that.

When I was trying to get a job after going to COLLEGE for 5 years, I noticed that 95% of the college sponsored interviews were given to minorities. Maybe *I* should get some reparations for being out of work for 8 months after college?

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If you take away AA I for damn sure want my reparations.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[gravityizsexy 0]

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And you've had them. Next year will be the 40th anniversary for Affirmative Action. No problem, historically speaking, with Affirmative Action, but when is enough, enough?

Im going to go out on a limb here and say it will be enough
when black and white people get together and make lots
of babies. But from the discrimination I
witness from both sides, I don't see a solution forming
anytime soon.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[white_falcon 0]

It is true, the bad places to live seem to be inabitied in LARGE majority, but the minorities. It is also true, that the people in those places have access to free public, and in some cases private, education to start them on the road to "betterment" and in LARGE percentages they choose NOT to take advantage of the programs in place.

It has become a "status" symbol in some cultures to NOT take advantage of the opportunities provided and to simply resign themselves to mediocrity or less. Take for example the kid in HS that says, F that, I'm not studing for that test, I'm not goin to college any way. Or, I already get SSI benefits, so why do I have to worry about gettin a job, or the newest destructive trend for girls, the status symbol of, oh "I'm the mama of his FIRST baby" (My wife is a school teacher and I swear to you this is the new BIG thing in the minority teen quarter).

Affirmative Action IS there for the minorites, there are COUNTLESS scholarships and grants I do NOT qualify simply because I am caucasian, and if the people they are intended for do not take advantage of them, or the thousands of dollars set aside as start-up funds for minority owned small business, etc etc etc, it is NOT the fault of the majority.

If the minority refuses to accept the help / assistance that is already in place and, to continue to live with / in the circumstances that surround them, then THEY have made a choice.

As for your Edit, I am not sure I understand what you mean, but if you are suggesting that AA is not FORCED on people, you are seriuously mistaken.

Scott

[gravityizsexy 0]

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If you can't get the free benefits of AA, then you want the goverment to pay you? Sorry, but I just couldn't sit back and NOT comment on this one. In my opinion, the reason you have AA is due to statements like the one you just made. Everyone is looking for a handout these days and if they cry "racism" in the process, then the government leaders give in. Sorry dude, but you'll never get anywhere in life (or in parachuting) if you think like that.

When I was trying to get a job after going to COLLEGE for 5 years, I noticed that 95% of the college sponsored interviews were given to minorities. Maybe *I* should get some reparations for being out of work for 8 months after college?

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If you take away AA I for damn sure want my reparations.

Base and Ron, mebbe I should have said "Without
AA.. WE'D (african-american community) be broke"
or "If you AA take away, WE for damn sure want OUR
reparations." First of all, I'm good enough at what I do
(and in parachuting) not to depend on handouts, and
NEVER EVER would I cry out "racism" for pity. I am not
a spokesperson for the afro-american community
however statistics speak for themselves. And htf did
AA become free?

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[white_falcon 0]

[reply/]
First of all, I'm good enough at what I do
(and in parachuting) not to depend on handouts, and
NEVER EVER would I cry out "racism" for pity.

[gravityizsexy 0]

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It is true, the bad places to live seem to be inabitied in LARGE majority, but the minorities. It is also true, that the people in those places have access to free public, and in some cases private, education to start them on the road to "betterment" and in LARGE percentages they choose NOT to take advantage of the programs in place.

It has become a "status" symbol in some cultures to NOT take advantage of the opportunities provided and to simply resign themselves to mediocrity or less. Take for example the kid in HS that says, F that, I'm not studing for that test, I'm not goin to college any way. Or, I already get SSI benefits, so why do I have to worry about gettin a job, or the newest destructive trend for girls, the status symbol of, oh "I'm the mama of his FIRST baby" (My wife is a school teacher and I swear to you this is the new BIG thing in the minority teen quarter).

Affirmative Action IS there for the minorites, there are COUNTLESS scholarships and grants I do NOT qualify simply because I am caucasian, and if the people they are intended for do not take advantage of them, or the thousands of dollars set aside as start-up funds for minority owned small business, etc etc etc, it is NOT the fault of the majority.

If the minority refuses to accept the help / assistance that is already in place and, to continue to live with / in the circumstances that surround them, then THEY have made a choice.

As for your Edit, I am not sure I understand what you mean, but if you are suggesting that AA is not FORCED on people, you are seriuously mistaken.

Scott

No, no.. my edited post was there to point out that
I've personally never used AA for the reasons base
listed.

As for your post. Your absolutely %300 correct. The help
is there, the structures are put in place to help minorities
get out of the ghettos and such and establish themselves.
I just think that they don't know how, and nobody is
teaching them. Showing them or walking them through
the process of filling out grant applications, or collecting
requisitional data for startup grants. The girl trend you
mentioned is scary. really scary. wow!. If they know the
choice is there and they choose poverty instead... fuck
'em. I think they need help opening their eyes and
really start to see more to life rather than clubs, drugs,
girls, money, and death. I guess that is my real quam.
Education IS the key.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[jdhill 0]

You still have not answered the question, why do you deserve reparations...

AA is a roadblock to a dream...

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I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I'll bet everyone knows who said that...

By setting oneself apart, and wanting special treatment, equality can never be reached, and is in fact pushed further away.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[gravityizsexy 0]

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You still have not answered the question, why do you deserve reparations...

AA is a roadblock to a dream...

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I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I'll bet everyone knows who said that...

By setting oneself apart, and wanting special treatment, equality can never be reached, and is in fact pushed further away.

J

Yes I did,
"The reason I bring up reparations is because without AA
being a driving force for the minor community to establish
themselves, We'd be broke... Fuck that!!! Referring to my
post in which I firmly protested against the benefactors
of slavery."

Equality!?... I'm not that optimistic. However much
I want it to be, I just can't even imagine it. How far
fetched is it to say that without AA minorities would
not thrive?

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Ron 10]

http://www.blackenterprise.com/AboutUsOpen.asp?Source=AboutBE/0205pr.html

Some interesting parts:
First off, it is in a magazine called "Black Enterprise".
That is discrimination. If I tried to publish ANY magazine for whites only I would be sued. But in this case it seems to be OK.

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BLACK ENTERPRISE (BE) today announced its list of the 75 Most Powerful African Americans in Corporate America, as featured in the February 2005 cover story. The list, which includes 18 CEOs (15 men and three women), was culled from the 1,000 largest domestic and international corporations traded publicly on the U.S. equities markets. The top 75 include representatives from a total of 62 companies representing 12 industries.

Seems to be the biggest issue is women to men.
I will grant that there are more whites in high positions than blacks....Ya think that might have something to do with the ratio of whites to black that graduate college?

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Has progress been made? "Well yes and no," says BE Founder and Publisher Earl G. Graves Sr. "While it is true that the corporate elite identified in our 2005 list represent a 300% increase over our 1988 list, it is also true that African Americans still hold less than 1% of the tens of thousands of senior-level, corporate posts at America’s 1,000 largest public corporations."

a 300% increase is great. I would say that has more to do with the fact that more blacks are going to school and doing well, than AA...But it could be AA.

But is it better to hire a less qualified canidate just to be nice? What happens to the white guy that was better qualified? Was he not just discriminated against? Or is it OK in these cases?

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In a corporate environment that is often inhospitable to black professionals, these top executives say the number of blacks who reside in corner offices will continue to grow. "I think it’s extremely positive that we have a number of African American CEOs, presidents, and chief operating officers of major corporations as effective role models," says Ronald A. Williams, president of the $17.9 billion Aetna Inc. "And it helps organizations focus on becoming more of a [meritocracy], where people can be judged on the basis of the value they create and not on the basis of their race or ethnicity."

I totally agree on judging a person on deeds....But AA is against that.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[white_falcon 0]

My previous
"So am I hearing that YOU took advantage of opportunties either earned, or given to you but yet you still think others should be rewarded for NOT taking advantage of the same? "

Was NOT in ref to AA, but to educational opportunities etc AND your hard work and GOOD decisions.

As for "them" not being aware of the assistance out there, excuse me but, BULL $HIT. I see it everyday. It is a CHOICE. Its the Im gonna bleed the suckers dry by taking ADVANTAGE of the social programs in place ie the housing, food stamps, welfare, etc etc etc and make "The Man" pay for my exisitance because THEY owe me. Thats the biggest problem, the minority TRULY believes that the majority OWES them.

It is a problem that lacks a GOOD solution. If you dispense with all the social programs, then people that TRULY need them are denied, but if you dont do something, you perpetuate the problem.

scott