Racism and sexism are alive and well in the US

[skydyvr 0]

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Your fucking right I identify myself by my race. I'm not blind. I'm black.. and I am not ashamed of it. As a matter of fact I flaunt it everywhere I go, heck... I even go out of my way to make sure people know it.

Nauseating.

To people outside the US: Sure, we still have a lot of racists like this around, but they are getting fewer all the time.

. . =(_8^(1)

[TheAnvil 0]

The German compound word 'Zeitswurdigkeit' comes to mind with regards to any further response. Roughly translated it means 'worthy of time' and I consider any further response most unworthy of mine. It's pretty well established for all who have read your posts in this thread that you consider one race superior to another and judge people by their race upon sight. Think however you like. The rest of us shall do likewise.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[gravityizsexy 0]

your loss...
can't say I didn't try.

It would have been nice to get down to the root
of this with you.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[gravityizsexy 0]

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Your fucking right I identify myself by my race. I'm not blind. I'm black.. and I am not ashamed of it. As a matter of fact I flaunt it everywhere I go, heck... I even go out of my way to make sure people know it.

Nauseating.

To people outside the US: Sure, we still have a lot of racists like this around, but they are getting fewer all the time.

Don't come at me with that crap... If loving myself
makes you want to vomit, by all means... let it
all out. I feel sorry for you if you are unable to pride
yourself on who you are, and thats your problem
I know who I am, and I know one of the things I'm
not.. is a racist. There is no need to "keep telling myself this" or others.., as it should be self-evident
at this point. Your not giving me anything to believe
otherwise...

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[happythoughts 0]

I hope that if I ever make a deliberately inflammatory, troll post with a title of this sort, someone will ban me.

[skydyvr 0]

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I hope that if I ever make a deliberately inflammatory, troll post with a title of this sort, someone will ban me.

So you think Billvon should ban himself?

. . =(_8^(1)

[happythoughts 0]

I've asked him before, he refuses. Seems like people from Calif would be more concerned about the good of the community. All that guac makes them more mellow, dude.

[Ron 10]

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Oh, I'm sorry... I must be crazy not to see the HUGE
freakin' difference between whites and blacks.

And there is the difference right there...I don't see a difference. A white or black person is just a person.

You do. You think that skin color matters.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[gravityizsexy 0]

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And there is the difference right there...I don't see a difference. A white or black person is just a person.

You do. You think that skin color matters.

Hrrrmmmm.... so I do. But in my defense, I would like to
say that my goal is to think like you, and I try like hell
to even when it bites me in the ass. Through MY personal
experiences your thoery is consistantly being proven
wrong. There have been times where I would be like
"I didn't just hear that; I didn't just see that; That
didn't just happen" and then I would shrug the feeling
off not really knowing whether or not blatent discrimination
just took place. But then there are those times where
I am just like "Holy shit!.. WTF?!? Are you kidding me,"
Most of which are caught in conversation or action
I happen to witness in places I would have least
expected. I have to admit though, I do have a tendancy
to pick sides when races are being singled out, more of
a effort to connect to my people culturally, with things
like BET, JET, EBONY, BE. Which somebody who is not
black cannot possible understand. Then there are
shows like Chris Rock, Dave Chapelle... which test my
bounderies to when I can't stop laughing, or Im like
"that's just not right" but Im still laughing, and then
there are times when Im just like,"Wow, now that's just
wrong!" Nevertheless, I treat people how they treat
me... and peoples characters are revealed through
contact and communication. I do hold opinions in
my head of people from the initial point of contact.
From the clothes and colors they wear, their body
language, and a number of other things, and yes
race is a factor in this for ME. BUT!! no matter how
positive or negative my intial view of them is I don't
deny the person from getting to know me and I
do not deny myself a chance to get to know that
person. It's from then on when I reserve my choice
to deny them or not. Anybody here that knows me will
tell you that I am a very outgoing person... I do
have my shy moments but that is neither here nor
there. I think your mentality should be the norm
for humanity... but like I said before, from my personal experiences I just can't not see a difference.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Ron 10]

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I would like to
say that my goal is to think like you, and I try like hell
to even when it bites me in the ass.

I have been bitten plenty of times.

7th grade I went into the bathroom during a class and was standing at a unrinal when two black guys came from the back and one put a gun to my head. He asked me what my "little white boy ass" was doing. I told him I was pissing. He asked what the hell I was doing in "his" bathroom. I told him I had to piss and was in the middle of it.

At that same school two years later, a group of black girls tried to set my sisters hair on fire.

10th grade I had a black guy jump me for accidentally getting his shoes wet. A 12th grader named Clay pulled him off of me and beat his ass.

11th grade I was attacked in the hall after school.... I was walking down the hall, and the lights turned off. A black guy was skipping/dancing down the hall. When he got to me he swung at me. I ducked, but he caught the back of my head and he ran off. He was trreated as a hero by all his friends. My parents wrote a letter to the school and said that the next time I was attacked I would fight back.....About a mth later the same thing happend...I was walking down the hall, and the lights turned off. A guy was skip/dancing down the hall...This time I managed to duck, and trip him. I chased him all the way down the hall to the principals office. Some guy tripped him and by the time he was getting up I was on top of him...The Principal pulled me off of him. They let go of me and I started hitting him again. They asked him why he attacked me...The answer "He was small and white", and "it was fun".

He was kicked out of school. He threatend to kill me.

I got more. I still treat people as people.

I got passed over for a promotion in an area I was already working, doing a job I was already doing...The reason? They needed to hire a minority to be in "balance". They hired a black female that didn't know squat about the operation over me who was already the acting manager....She lasted two mths, and then was moved to another area where most other managers would have been fired.

I judge people. If a guy is wearing his clothes backwards, can't speak English and uses slang...I avoid them. Then again if a guy is wearing a t shirt with "The Dixie Flag" on it saying "The South Shall rise again"....I avoid them as well.

Truth be told I don't have many black friends....Thats more of a function of there not being that many black skydivers than anything else.... I don't have that many white whuffo friends either.

My whole point is that while I agree that there were problems..they are less now than ever. However, it is still PC for a black man to call another a "nigger", but if a white says it....Now there is a big problem.

It's OK for a black guy to make fun of a white....Reference "White Chicks". But if a white guy makes fun of a black....All hell breaks lose.

It's OK for there to be an NAACP....But a White organization becomes a "Racist group" or a "Hate Group".

It's OK for AA to be racist. But if I hire a guy who is white I have to defend my choice.

The tides HAVE turned. It's OK for a black man/group to be racist.

I never owned a slave, I never made anyone ride in the back of a bus...But I am punished for these acts of the past.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skydyvr 0]

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It's OK for there to be an NAACP....But a White organization becomes a "Racist group" or a "Hate Group".

Don't forget one of my personal favorites:

http://www.blackpages.com/

How this is "OK" is beyond me.

. . =(_8^(1)

[gravityizsexy 0]

I am honestly too ....I dunno if there is a word, but Im
angry, confused, frustrated, betrayed, sympathetic,
more-so pissed at myself for not being more understanding before.
Im sorry these things happened to you, I don't even
know howto respond to this. I wouldn't even know where
to begin.

However, I think that you have the NAACP confused
with such groups like the Black Panther Party, CORE,
the SNCC, etc... which were "hate" groups. The NAACP
is clearly not. If they were to deny white people
membership that would be a problem for me,
but they don't. In fact they have many caucasian
members. Just as BET does not restrict it's viewers to
black people, as they have many white viewers. Now
if we reciprocate this, how would it turn out? hrmmmm..
"White Entertainment Television"???, hahahaa...
yeah, it probably would not take to well.. but I
GAURANTEE it could be done. Can I ask you a question?
What shows or what programs, or anything...
what would be on WET??? And nigger ain't nothing
but a word... you can say it all you want... nobody is
stopping you but you. I'm not saying that you would...
but if you were to you'd get different reactions from
different people. Some black people probably just
won't speak to you, some will resort to violence, but
I doubt you'll find a black person to find it acceptable.
Same if you said it to a white person. Just reciprocate
the situation. Some white people probably just won't
speak to you and walk away, very few will resort to
violence, and I bet it is highly probable that it may be
accepted. I don't know...

I myself have done nothing but be born, and there
are people out there who've made it abundantly clear
that I was born on the wrong side of town. Like I picked
that shithole... I joined the military and saw all different
people from all different walks of life. And being forced
to work with, explore new territories of life, share
new experiences, and sometimes live together..
we all were able to get past what we thought and
went straight to what really is and became damn
near family. We used to beat the crap out of each
other up mostly over things about race. And one thing
I will never forget is a plane crash on the USS GW one
guy shevlin, well known for his skinhead based
background... was standing in the middle of
intersecting jetstreams, when a F-18 came
in hard and caught on fire, emergency prodecures
would've had two F-14s blow shevlin into the water
probably killing him... and this guy burke (if the
black panther party were alive today, he'd be their
leader) leaped through a E-2, a EA6-B, and two F-14
jetstreams (thats some ***STUPID!!!!*** shit to do while
props are turning on a flight deck) to hook him and shevlin upto padies.. The jets turned and they went
flailing in the streams like two ragdolls. No one could
do anything until the emergency shutdowns. They
survived... and we're back at their bickering the next
day. but it wasn't the same, everyone knew what had
happened... Burke received a medal of bravery, and
after the ceremony, shevlin came upto burke in
dress uniform with his wife and kids and started crying
on his shoulder. Burke never told anyone what was said
and he used to tell me everything... but shevlin and burke
became totally different people after that day.

It's unfortunate that it took a tragedy like this for
those two to see something in people other than
color.But, If those two can do it, I believe there is hope
for everybody. I KNOW unity is possible. And when it
happens its a beautiful thing.

Bickering about things like BET and the NAACP is
petty. It would serve no purpose to you if they existed
or not. Unless you wanted it to.

As for AA.... that directly affects you. Not just you either
the white population in America. I will try to break it
down for you. hypothetically, you... have a good
education, good grades, overall a good candidate
for Buckley University (whatever the fuck that is).
Statisically the biggest generator of profressional
... architects. You don't get into Buckley because
percentage of white applicants has been filled.
But homeboy who was in all your same classes
got the same grades.. (Jobs don't hire just anybody
so the black person will not always be under qualified)
but for the sake of this, lets say he didn't perform
well on his aptitude test. He will get accepted into
Buckley because the black percentile of applicants
hasn't been met. Same thing happens at Trinity
University, You have to settle for Lexmark College. (Your third pick)
Produces %13 of leading architects. You both
graduate... Homeboy has already got a job out of
college at a well connected firm. While your out sending
resumes and can't get better than $50k annual salary.
You have no other options... So you live on this,
you have wife and kids... salary is at $60k now.
Homeboy has taken your spot in upper-class society
making $180k annualy, while you took his would be
spot in the $60k+ lifestyle. All in the great plan to
equalize. which is why I say white people will be forced
into low-income trade and black people forced into
high-income trade. there are obviously many variables
entwined in this, but the is the basic jist of it? Does
this make any sense???

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[dorbie 0]

He didn't refuse to listen, he listened and engaged you. He just disagreed with you.

Your culture/minority doesn't have a monopoly on tough breaks & hardship. My grandfather was sold for a shilling (for a season) and my father worked in a coal mine. Everyone can concoct a hard luck story if they choose to. I could harken back to the Scottish highland clearances, focus on the countless countrymen conscripted in a class war & butchered on the fields of Flanders or bitch about economic regional deprivation & favoritism (with very tangible examples) or other cultural baggage or I can focus on my future and my attitute.

Attitudes hold people back more than any other single factor.

[gravityizsexy 0]

slaves didn't build the US economic base???

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[dorbie 0]

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slaves didn't build the US economic base???

Are you saying they did and nobody else contributed? What about all those white guys who died in the civil war over (in part) emancipation. They're dead and never had decendants, you're alive.

What about my grandfather & the countless working class guys of his generation. They did hard physical labor whole lives to put food on the table and died without a penny to their name. What does any of this history have to do with the world owing you or me a favor?

You didn't build the economy of this nation back then and nobody alive today did. We're all better off because of their legacy today.

[gravityizsexy 0]

I'm sorry??? ..... your confused, I was not born "back then"
So of course I didn't build the economy, but my ancestors
sure as hell did, or have you not heard of "King Cotton"
not even including actual slaves being a pretty hot
commodity.
And what do we get for it?

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We're all better off because of their legacy today.

WHO!?!??!?!?!!?!??

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[dorbie 0]

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I'm sorry??? ..... your confused, I was not born "back then"
So of course I didn't build the economy, but my ancestors
sure as hell did, or have you not heard of "King Cotton"
not even including actual slaves being a pretty hot
commodity.
And what do we get for it?

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We're all better off because of their legacy today.

WHO!?!??!?!?!!?!??

No I'm not confused, it's not my responsibility that you see the world a different way.

As for who benefits that includes you. I sure as heck don't benefit more than you from labor that was done generations ago. If they built an economy that we now reap the results of today that includes us all born new into the world at age 0. That's just taking your thesis at face value, I have issues with your interpretation of one group building an economy.

[crozby 0]

A possibly dumb question, but isn't the point of AA simply to level an unlevel playing field?

If that is the case, and if there is an unlevel playing field to begin with, why is it a problem?

Here in the UK we have rules on how many disabled people companies must employ. The rules are there to cope with the fact that some people would choose an able bodied person for a role rather than a disabled person, even if both were equally capable of doing it.

Isn't AA the same kind of thing?

[dorbie 0]

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A possibly dumb question, but isn't the point of AA simply to level an unlevel playing field?

If that is the case, and if there is an unlevel playing field to begin with, why is it a problem?

Here in the UK we have rules on how many disabled people companies must employ. The rules are there to cope with the fact that some people would choose an able bodied person for a role rather than a disabled person, even if both were equally capable of doing it.

Isn't AA the same kind of thing?

Well firstly I made no mention of AA, but since you ask AA explicitly rejects the notion of equally able. It doesn't address the lack of qualified minority candidates, instead it prefferentially selects minority candidates, this is why it's so contentious in the US. It's not very convincing telling a non minority who loses their university place to a less qualified minority candidate due to AA that you're levelling the playing field. This is just one of a range of issues in the US that includes reparations for decendants of those who suffered as slaves.

[Ron 10]

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Homeboy has taken your spot in upper-class society
making $180k annualy, while you took his would be
spot in the $60k+ lifestyle. All in the great plan to
equalize. which is why I say white people will be forced
into low-income trade and black people forced into
high-income trade. there are obviously many variables
entwined in this, but the is the basic jist of it? Does
this make any sense???

Do you think that it is fair?

I mean if these two were not equal (based on the aptitude score). Why should the lesser qualified canidate be given the better position?

See I would rather remove the color block from the applications.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[gravityizsexy 0]

yeah,..... *sigh* your right, thanks for bringing
things back into perspective.

[/crozby]

That still doesn't void the fact that slaves built the
US economic --->BASE<---. Here's why, Cotton was the
main export, for some odd years... carrying a hefty
weight of something like %68 of the US's trade. Also,
slaves were.... sold, traded, exported, and imported,
so you add how much more money that raked in, and
voila... That alone could have funded the civil war.
This was all while America was claiming independance.
Of course there were other contributors, but you ask
any stock literate investor who would be getting the
biggest return on amreican finance and I bet you
they'll all say the same answer. Where did that money go?
Not to the people who earned it. Not their children,
not their childrens children, not their childrens, childrens, children. Not their childrens, childrens, childrens, childrens, children. Should I go on? If it did
then maybe that statement "we're all better off"
would be true.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Lindsey 0]

One problem with this argument is that even today the laborers, whose work provides our economic base, are not the ones who profit from their labor. Their children, children's children, children's children's children, etc. do not reap the financial benefits either. That money still belongs to the upper echelon. I'm not minimizing the terrible toll that slavery took on many, many people. But I just wanted to point out that, even without slavery, field workers at that time (even if paid a wage) would not have been the people in control of the large sums of money that provided the US economic base.



That still doesn't void the fact that slaves built the
US economic --->BASE<---. Here's why, Cotton was the
main export, for some odd years... carrying a hefty
weight of something like %68 of the US's trade. Also,
slaves were.... sold, traded, exported, and imported,
so you add how much more money that raked in, and
voila... That alone could have funded the civil war.
This was all while America was claiming independance.
Of course there were other contributors, but you ask
any stock literate investor who would be getting the
biggest return on amreican finance and I bet you
they'll all say the same answer. Where did that money go?
Not to the people who earned it. Not their children,
not their childrens children, not their childrens, childrens, children. Not their childrens, childrens, childrens, childrens, children. Should I go on? If it did
then maybe that statement "we're all better off"
would be true.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[gravityizsexy 0]

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Do you think that it is fair?

That's hard for me to answer, I mean of course it is not
fair, and it would cause ample pain and suffering.. It
would definitly hurt me to see somebody go through that.
But if you had gotten the position it would have contributed
to the segregation of today, by adding another white
member to a society that is pre-dominatly white, and
keeping homeboy in a society that is in transition or
he could say fuck college and opt for low-income living
which is pre-dominatly black. And I believe the
reasons why we settled in these classifications is the
exact same reason we need to mix it up.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Ron 10]

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But if you had gotten the position it would have contributed
to the segregation of today, by adding another white
member to a society that is pre-dominatly white, and
keeping homeboy in a society that is in transition

UH, 60 grand a year is more than a homeboy on the block will make.

Whats wrong with the best qualified canidate getting the bestter job?

Like I said remove the color block on applications.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[gravityizsexy 0]

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One problem with this argument is that even today the laborers, whose work provides our economic base, are not the ones who profit from their labor. Their children, children's children, children's children's children, etc. do not reap the financial benefits either. That money still belongs to the upper echelon. I'm not minimizing the terrible toll that slavery took on many, many people. But I just wanted to point out that, even without slavery, field workers at that time (even if paid a wage) would not have been the people in control of the large sums of money that provided the US economic base.

linz

hrmmmm..... point taken, I just want the black population
to become associated and identified as Americans,
so that the term "african-american" can have a real
meaning, relating to and as a positive cultural reference as oppose to a era of egressing freedom.
I want us to have a hand in decisions made for the
country. I want black input on market trade, territory,
and finance prospection. Not for curing the needs of black
people in america though, but for the purpose of all
americans. There are not enough black people with
political power to give insight on %15 of the nations
population.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"