Holy Crap This Was Entertaining

[Kennedy 0]

How many factual flaws and outright lies can YOU find in this article?

http://www.sfbg.com/39/15/x_oped.html

Quote

NRA out of S.F.
by bill barnes and burke strunsky


SAN FRANCISCO HAS long been a leader for justice, fighting apartheid and advancing same-sex marriage equality. Now, with 87 homicides so far this year – 56 of which involved handguns – it's time to continue this work for justice. We'll have that opportunity at the next election.

Thanks to the political courage of Sups. Chris Daly, Michela Alioto-Pier, Tom Ammiano, Bevan Dufty, and Matt Gonzalez, San Franciscans will consider a measure to make our communities safer by essentially banning private ownership of handguns and ending the sale, manufacture, transfer, and distribution of all firearms in the city.

For years the National Rifle Association has spent millions to spread misinformation: owning a handgun makes you safer, the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to own a gun, and meaningful firearm reform makes communities dangerous. When the NRA leaders can't buy politicians, they try legal challenges, aggressive media campaigns, and blacklisting efforts (go to www.nrablacklist.com).

The truth is, the Second Amendment doesn't apply to individuals. Since 1939, the Supreme Court has found that the Second Amendment doesn't give an individual a Constitutional right to own a gun. The amendment clearly focuses on granting that right only to a "well-regulated militia." Even though the NRA and its powerful friends convinced former attorney general John Ashcroft to opine that it did apply to individuals, federal courts have ruled it doesn't, upholding Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban in Seegars v. Ashcroft.

Handguns make our homes more dangerous. Scientific data indicates that, far from providing protection, owning a handgun makes it more likely that a gun-related death will occur that isn't in self-defense. The New England Journal of Medicine found that a handgun in the home makes it 43 times more likely that a friend, family member, or acquaintance will be killed than an intruder. According to data collected by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, firearms are the second leading cause of death for kids 19 and younger. In addition, rates of successful suicide increase fivefold with a handgun.

Meaningful gun reform is one part of making communities safer. New investments in education, community development, and jobs are also needed to provide real alternatives to violence. Nevertheless, fewer handguns in the flow of commerce will make it more difficult to obtain one. A community conversation about the violence caused by handguns will lift our city up, as neighbors talk to one another about strategies to increase the peace in our neighborhoods.

More than 20 years ago, the District of Columbia enacted a similar handgun ban and is on its way to a 20-year low of homicides. Yet Republicans in Washington are working to repeal the law. It was the only vote counted by the NRA in deciding which candidates to support last year. The passage of our measure will help bolster national efforts for sound gun policy.

Since so much is at stake, the NRA, other pro-gun groups, and their savvy media machine will stop at nothing to prevent San Francisco from voting to make our communities safer, and local media coverage hasn't helped. That's why your support is so needed today. Recently in the San Francisco Chronicle, NRA attorney Chuck Michel said, "We're already in the process of putting together the petition for an injunction to try to keep it off the ballot." The NRA wants to silence San Francisco, but we're ready to speak up.

We won't win by spending more than the NRA, or by running a campaign of fear. We'll only win when you join us in a groundbreaking campaign of hope to make San Francisco safer, by going to www.stophandguns.com or calling the campaign at (415) 440-8903.

Bill Barnes is an elected member of the Democratic County Central Committee and a spokesperson for Ban Handgun Violence. Burke Strunsky, a former assistant district attorney, is the coordinator of Ban Handgun Violence.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

The truth is, the Second Amendment doesn't apply to individuals.

Ohhhhh...right, the Bill of Rights was created to give the government rights, it wasn't written by men who were tired of the government trampling their individual rights...damn, I guess I've been wrong all these years and all of those text books need to be rewritten to keep from spreading the doublespeak.

I seriously wonder if people who are so motivated to toss our basic rights out the window would like to go live in under a military dictatorship? It nearly seems that way sometimes.

Banning US citizens from owning a firearm, one of the basic rights laid forth by the founding fathers, is seriously the first major step towards total restrictions of our rights. That's like saying you can no longer have free speech or have the right to vote or have freedom of the press.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kennedy 0]

I sometimes wonder if they realize that they are creating and implementing templates that can be used to strip citizens of any rights, even the ones they think are important and above reproach.

Do they realize that freedom of speech could just as easily be double-talked right out of existance as the right to KABA?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Do they realize that freedom of speech could just as easily be double-talked right out of existance as the right to KABA?

I seriously doubt they understand that. Especially with terrorism as its going, its not unlikely to think that someone down the road is going to try to restrict the press, then the people from speaking what they believe.

I'm sure at that point, they'll get their panties in a wad, but they won't understand that it was them that setup the basic premis due to the attempt at destroying a right they didn't personally believe in.

People amaze me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[justinb138 0]

If I was a criminal it would be comforting to know that the owner of the house I was about to rob didn't have a gun becuase it was illegal.

Honestly, I think that if the robbers/murderers/etc ended up with a little bit of lead in them more often that the crime rate would drop. I think they would be less likely to go after someone knowing that they might get their head blown off in the process.

[Kennedy 0]

Reality bears out what you think as exactly true.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I think they would be less likely to go after someone knowing that they might get their head blown off in the process.

If you look at the violent crime rates for Texas since 1996, after the CHL law had come into effect, you'd see just that. Its dropped by over 50%.

I think perps are scared of being killed.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[penniless 0]

Quote

Quote

I think they would be less likely to go after someone knowing that they might get their head blown off in the process.

If you look at the violent crime rates for Texas since 1996, after the CHL law had come into effect, you'd see just that. Its dropped by over 50%.

I.

Chicago's violent crime rate fell 39% in 2004. Murders fell 25% in 2004. I think you'll find it hard to prove correlation or causation with gun ownership there.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Chicago's violent crime rate fell 39% in 2004. Murders fell 25% in 2004. I think you'll find it hard to prove correlation or causation with gun ownership there.

There's an overall trend in the US with violent crime decreasing, but no where has it been as dramatic and as quick as it was in TX where the violent crime rate went from climbing steadily to a stark drop in a year. There is a direct corrilation there.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[MC208B 0]

Wow, that's pretty wild!

I brought my WASR-10 back here (Maui) this month after visiting family in WA state.

Had to get it to the cop shop to be registered and myself fingerprinted and got a pic taken.

Don;t know what that does for the fight against crime here tho

Good news is I got to keep (and use) the 30 round magazines

[penniless 0]

Quote

Quote

Chicago's violent crime rate fell 39% in 2004. Murders fell 25% in 2004. I think you'll find it hard to prove correlation or causation with gun ownership there.

There's an overall trend in the US with violent crime decreasing, but no where has it been as dramatic and as quick as it was in TX where the violent crime rate went from climbing steadily to a stark drop in a year. There is a direct corrilation there.

Your figures do not agree with those released by the State of Texas Dept. of Public Safety.

In NO YEAR did Texas's rate of violent crime and murder drop as much as Chicago's did last year.

[TomAiello 26]

Dude, have you been to San Francisco? That's a right wing propaganda piece by comparison with most of the stuff that goes on there.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

In NO YEAR did Texas's rate of violent crime and murder drop as much as Chicago's did last year.

Good, do you want a cookie? Maybe a glass of milk?

That wasn't my point, my point was an overall trend in Texas. We had one of the worst crime rates and it suddenly stopped and turned around. It happened the same year that CHL was enacted.

Stop trying to bring other bullshit into this and look at the plane and simple truth I'm discussing, not what you'd like to discuss. If you want to discuss and compare Chicago and Texas that's fine, but start another thread as per normal forum ediquette.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

Good, do you want a cookie? Maybe a glass of milk?

I want a Gold Star!

. . =(_8^(1)

[Salsa_John 0]

Both the CDD and FBI's own research refute position presented in this story.

Orange county Florida Sheriff Kevin Berry supports legal handgun ownership in addition to the aggressive prosecution of criminals

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[penniless 0]

Quote

Quote

In NO YEAR did Texas's rate of violent crime and murder drop as much as Chicago's did last year.

Good, do you want a cookie? Maybe a glass of milk?

.

No need to be offensive.

The comparison with Chicago is VERY relevant, since you argue that a drop in crime correlates with concealed carry and cite TX as an example. But Chicago had a BIGGER drop and no concealed carry. NYC has also had a big drop in violent crime and no CCW. Therefore your "correlation" is quite likely due to other factors altogether, like in Chicago and NYC.

[justinb138 0]

Quote

Therefore your "correlation" is quite likely due to other factors altogether, like in Chicago and NYC.

Death Penalty maybe?

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

No need to be offensive.

Wasn't trying to be, it was a sarcastic joke. I have a really dry sense of humor and sometimes that doesn't translate well on the 'net (hell, sometimes it doesn't translate well in real life).

Quote

Therefore your "correlation" is quite likely due to other factors altogether, like in Chicago and NYC.

Ok, same arguement different person this time. Do me a favor and simply do a search, this arguement has be done before on DZ.com, you'll find all the data and arguements both ways.

What you're not understanding is that I'm talking about a specific drop during the 2 years after the law was in effect, more drastic during that time period then any other state (if you want to use the state to state comparison even though you're arguing a city to state comparison which is apple to oranges). This is after Texas had been drastically climbing in violent crime when compared to the rest ofthe country.

The past 3 years have shown a nation wide drop in violent crime, I honestly think that the war and terrorism has had something to do with that, as well as the increase in funding for LEO organizations.

Besides, trying to compare a city to a state the size of a handful of states put together...that's a good stretch. Both of the cities you cited have seen a LARGE increase in funding due to 9/11.

Instead of trying to argue in a circle, take an actual look at my points and come to your own conclusion.

You're not going to change my opinion and I'm sure that I won't change your opinion; however, my stance is still my own even though I understand what you're trying to state. I strongly believe that you're so set in your arguement that you're not even willing to look at facts and the points of my arguement. So you start taking apple and oranges comparisons (city vs. state and different years) and are ignoring everything else.

*shrug* whatever.

You do what you want. I have my rights to do as I've been doing for the past 4 years.

If nothing else, feel free to read some first hand stories (use google) on CHL people being able to defend themselves and their families in the 35 different states that have concealed licenses.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jerryzflies 0]

Quote

Quote

Therefore your "correlation" is quite likely due to other factors altogether, like in Chicago and NYC.

Death Penalty maybe?

You mean like the governor of Illinois puts a moratorium on the death penalty, and violent crime in Chicago drops 39%. Yes, I expect that's it.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

in addition to the aggressive prosecution of criminals

What a novel idea! It's a shame that we're only now beginning to realize that that might be a good idea.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.