Here We Go Again

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Okay, so they are on their way out backing towards the stairs.

Then the dude decides to try and disarm him and then after he disarms him, he shoots him....

Yeah, I too wonder why he got arrested

[AggieDave 6]

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The law passed in Washington in, I think, 1961.

Yeah, it was sometime around then.

There's still records of similar weapon laws trying to be passed in Texas for the past 100 years though.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[penniless 0]

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The law passed in Washington in, I think, 1961. One of the survivors of the Luby's murders, who watched her parent get killed after she escaped thru a window, went into politics to change the concealed weapons laws. She had a gun in her car, but, being a good citizen, had not taken it into the restaurant.

When I drop into my kids' schools, my gun locked "safely" away in the car, and I push open the school door with it's "Gun Free Zone" sticker prominently displayed, I can't think of it as anything but a "victim disarmament zone." I don't think any mass murderer will be deterred by that little law. That law and that sticker do not make my children one bit safer.
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Does the ease with which potential mass murderers can obtain guns make your children any safer? There seem to be lots more mass shootings in the US than in other parts of the western world.

[JohnRich 4]

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Does the ease with which potential mass murderers can obtain guns make your children any safer? There seem to be lots more mass shootings in the US than in other parts of the western world.

The 14 states that adopted right to carry laws since 1977 have
experienced an 84% decline in the number of mass public shootings. Here's the study:

"Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-To-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement"

By John Lott and William Landes, The Law School, University of Chicago, Feb. 27, 1999.

Conclusion

"The results of this paper support the hypothesis that concealed handgun or shall issue laws reduce the number of multiple victim public shootings. Attackers are deterred and the number of people injured or killed per attack is also reduced, thus for the first time providing evidence that the harm from crimes that still occur can be mitigated... Not only does the passage of a shall issue law have a significant impact on multiple shootings but it is the only law related variable that appears to have a significant impact. Other law enforcement efforts from the arrest rate for murder to the death penalty to waiting periods and background checks are not systematically related to multiple shootings. We also find that shall issue laws deter both the number of multiple shootings and the amount of harm per shooting. Finally, because the presence of citizens with concealed handguns may be able to stop attacks before the police are able to arrive, our data also allows us to provide the first evidence on the reduction in severity of those crimes that still take place."

Full Report (pdf file)

[AggieDave 6]

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Does the ease with which potential mass murderers can obtain guns make your children any safer? There seem to be lots more mass shootings in the US than in other parts of the western world.

Bwaahahhahahahahahaha!!!

I'm amazed. You're making another apple and oranges comparison arguement in a different thread.

Culture has a lot to do with it.

There are many examples in "banning" countries in which the criminals still obtain weapons. You know that ALL criminals go and legally buy their weapons. Nevermind the rest of the problems with criminals using other weapons. (Uhhh...box cutters anyone?)

Criminals are criminals, they will do what they feel is necissary to do what they want to do. Gun laws don't bother them anymore then the laws not to kill, steal and rape.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[penniless 0]

You quote Lott as if he's God.

Even Lott now acknowledges using incomplete data for that analysis.


One published critique puts it thus:

40. In the wake of a recent school shooting in Germany that killed fourteen, Lott summarized his
finding from the Lott and Landes study: “multiple-victim public shootings fell on average by 78 per-cent
in states that passed [right-to-carry] laws.” John Lott, “Gun Control Misfires in Europe,” Wall Street
Journal, April 30, 2002, p. A16. Although the results may at first seem persuasive, there is a major prob-lem
with the Lott and Landes data. Lott and Landes (2001). The FBI Supplementary Homicide Report
(SHR) reveals more than 800 such multiple-victim deaths a year, while Lott and Landes use a Lexis search
that generates only about 20. FBI (2000). While it may be that not all 800 should be included (for ex-ample,
Lott and Landes would eliminate some of the murders in the FBI data because they are not com-mitted
in public places), the true number of cases is vastly greater than the number that Lott and Landes
employ. Indeed, Lott and Landes have now found that when they use the SHR data, their results “were
rarely statistically significant.” Consequently, if their story doesn’t emerge when they use the best data,
why should we believe their results using much less accurate data?


Another reputable researcher calls Lott "Unethical"
cgi.cse.unsw.edu.au/~lambert/cgi-bin/blog/guns/Lott/misc/0711b.html

See also tigger.uic.edu/~mikem/Cnty_UCR.PDF for an explanation of Lotts misuse of statistics.

[JohnMitchell 16]

***Does the ease with which potential mass murderers can obtain guns make your children any safer? There seem to be lots more mass shootings in the US than in other parts of the western world.