Georgia told to can the BS

[Ron 10]

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It wss a blatant end run around the constitution.

It is not an end run around the Constituition.

The 1st Amendment is to prevent the Church running the State like the Catholic Church did in Spain, or having the State run the Church like The Church of England. It also allows the free worship of whatever you want, or nothing at all.

It does not in any way say that there would not be religion in Government...They start Congress with a prayer and have since 1776.

Now I am not religious in the slightest, but the Constitution does not say what most think.

I have no problem with either *Theory* being taught as long as both are taught and both are taught as what they are...Possible, not fact.

For the record, I tend to go with evolution, not creation.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[LawnDart21 0]

Okay, so then, because creationism is based on blind faith, not science, in your view it should not be acknowledged in an educational system. That is
your view, correct?

Let's see, art cannot be defined by science, let's ban that from school too. (I mean how can we even think about discussing Da Vinci's work in school, we'd have to explain that the Last Supper wasn't what was for dinner the night before). Hmm, poetry comes from the soul, yikes, we better ban that too, science can't prove the soul exists, there for it doesn't. Better pull Joyce Kilmer's poems out of school. UH-OH, science can't explane imagination either, there goes creative writing too. Better yet, we all know that written history is merely subjective opinions of the people writing it, opinions aren't fact, lets can history class too. (Most of it was written by religious people anyways.)

Therefore, by deductive reasoning (science at it's best), in the perfect scientific environment, we can teach evolution & algebra. That will make for very well rounded students of the future. We should probably ban recess too, as there is nothing scientific about having fun.

It all starts somewhere.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[jdhill 0]

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It wss a blatant end run around the constitution

Wow, don't pull any muscles making a stretch like that...

Simple, yes/no question, is evolution a theory or a fact?


the sticker does not even mention any other theory, does not mention God, and only state that evolution is a theory, which it is... a student reading the sticker does not see or hear the intent you assume is behind it.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[PhreeZone 20]

Which version of creationism would you like mentioned in schools? The Hindu? Buddist? Christian? Apache? Aztec?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[JohnRich 4]

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If God created the Earth in 7 days then he put a lot of effort into creating evidence of evolution in the rocks an creatures he made.

Yes, so how can we trust a god who would try and fool us about what really happened, by planting false evidence? Why would he want to distract us from his own creationism, if that's what he did?

[crozby 0]

A quick google on "Evolution Fact Theory" turns up a number of articles that claim that evolution is both fact and theory.

Here's one: http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/lenski.html

The basic gist is that it is a proven fact that organisms evolve, but there are only theories as to the actual mechanisms involved.

One dictionary definition of a theory is:

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A theory is a logical explanation or model based on observation, facts hypotheses, experimentation, and reasoning that attempts to explain a range of natural phenomena. Theories are constantly subject to testing, modification, and refutation as new evidence and ideas emerge. Theories also have predictive capabilities that guide further investigation.

Creationism can not be described as a theory based on that definition. However it fits quite nicely with the following definition of Myth:

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A narrative in which some characters are superhuman beings who do things that "happen only in stories"; hence, a conventionalized or stylized narrative not fully adapted to plausibility or "realism."

[dorbie 0]

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Again, I am not aiming to "disprove evelution" or have creationism taught.... I for one believe in evelution, however, it is a theory and should be described as such. Do you not agree with that?

To an extent, but AFAIK it is, it's taught the same way as newtonian physics are in highschool.

We don't teach hard science and give kids a bunch of caveats, the caveats w.r.t. scientific theory are a given. It's the context of all theories and discussion.

Your concern seems to be that the fact this is a theory diminishes it scientifically in some way w.r.t. other knowledge, it doesn't.

[dorbie 0]

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If God created the Earth in 7 days then he put a lot of effort into creating evidence of evolution in the rocks an creatures he made.

Yes, so how can we trust a god who would try and fool us about what really happened, by planting false evidence? Why would he want to distract us from his own creationism, if that's what he did?

Begging the question again. I didn't say he did it in 7 days and your statement assumes he did, you should address that question to someone who thinks he did.
P.S. I realize you're being facetious, so am I.

[jcd11235 0]

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I don't get it..... Eveloution is a theory, why should or would it posed as a fact?

It is the most scientifically sound and closest to accurate explanation for the origin of the species.

You are right. Science does not offer fact, they offer explanations, each new one conforming to observation ever more closely. Creationism (The story of Adam and Eve has been highly perverted since it left the hands of Rabbis.) in its Western Christaian context, is easily discredited.

Feathered dinasaurs.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

To call evolution a theory would imply that it can be used to mathematically predict future "evolutions." We don't know that much yet. Its still a hypothesis, and only that by a stretch of the imagination, as we cannot easily experiment, but only observe a time frame much larger than the lifespan of the observers. So, no, it is not a theory. Nor is it a fact. And it's probably wrong. Everything else science has ever shown us has been later proven wrong. Hell, even Newton was wrong.

Once we thought the earth was flat. We were wrong. Then we thought the earth was spherical. That, too, was wrong. But it wasn't nearly as wrong or inaccurate as the idea of a geocentric universe that it replaced. That's how science works, it continually replaces one inaccurate explanation with another slightly less inaccurate explanation.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

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Evolution is no more or less a theory than creation, so why is it not appropriate to teach/educate based on both ideas?

Evolution is the only one of the two that has not been disproven.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[LawnDart21 0]

Teach them all I say. Knowledge is power.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[Zenister 0]

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Is Creationism a theory, or a fact?

Theory

actually it doesnt even reach that level of refinement... by the strict scientific method it barely qualifies as a hypothesis... MUCH less validity than a theory...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[jerryzflies 0]

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I don't get it..... Eveloution is a theory, why should or would it posed as a fact?

Is Creationism a theory, or a fact?

Neither. It's faith.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[jerryzflies 0]

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I don't know about you guys, but I couldn't think of a better use of our underburdened legal system than to pontificate on the educational origins of mankind from a legal stand point. Criminals tie up too much court time and judical costs anyways.

If I was a resident of Georgia and my tax dollars paid for this abuse of the legal system, I'd be outraged.

Regarding the facts of evolutions, I thought there was always a gap in the evolution chain (the missing link) that prevented science from confirming the thoery of evolution as fact.

Forget that the vast majority of the earth's evolved inhabitants are religious in some capacity and that all religions have some form of divine creation as a basis for thier faith.

Beetles and cockroaches are religious?

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[LawnDart21 0]

So that makes it the only acceptable stance then? The better of two evils?

I am not a Creationist, I believe in the theory of Evolution, I just think that (going back to the original post) that wasting tax payer money to remove an implied religious reference is wrong. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Side note, I think it's called Pasqual's wager, that clearly shows believing in God is a mathematically sound decision.

I'm tired. G'Nite all.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[LawnDart21 0]

Touche'
By evolved, I was referring to mankind.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[Zenister 0]

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Side note, I think it's called Pasqual's wager, that clearly shows believing in God is a mathematically sound decision.

hardly... 'Pasqual's wager' assumes there are only two possible choices.. it is logically and mathematically flawed...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Kennedy 0]

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actually it doesnt even reach that level of refinement... by the strict scientific method it barely qualifies as a hypothesis... MUCH less validity than a theory...

The same could be said of evolution, actually. I don't subscribe to one or the other. I'm certainly not a "true believer" of either one, or their variations.

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Six parents and the American Civil Liberties Union then sued, contending the disclaimers violated the separation of church and state...

It violated what again? A non-existant line in the sand? An idea from one important man's letter?

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...and unfairly singled out evolution from thousands of other scientific theories as suspect.

Maybe it was the only theory presented as fact.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Zenister 0]

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actually it doesnt even reach that level of refinement... by the strict scientific method it barely qualifies as a hypothesis... MUCH less validity than a theory...

The same could be said of evolution, actually. I don't subscribe to one or the other. I'm certainly not a "true believer" of either one, or their variations.

not at all... and if you believe so you have as little understanding of the scientific method and the real definition of 'theory' as those who are advocating putting 'warning labels' in science texts...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Kennedy 0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

I'm well aware of what the scientific method is, thank you.

I also know that theory has many definitions. I did not say evolution was not a theory, only that it could be classified as a hypothesis. (along the same lines as your denounciation of creationism)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Zenister 0]

apparently you didnt read your own link then.... by strict scientific definition evolution is long past the hypothesis stage.. creationism hasnt fulfilled even the most basic requirements..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Snowflake 0]

Before I read all the posts I'll say that when I went to school. We had a class called Social Studies in it we learned about all kinds of creation "theories" from Egyptian to Norse . We never learned about the Christian "theory" because there was a place to learn that, it was called church and if your parents wanted you to learn about Christian creationisim you could go there and learn it all you wanted. Thats the way it was and the way it should be.

Edit to add I was taught about the "Theory of evolution". I didn't know they had changed it to Darwins law of evolution.

[jakee 1,596]

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Okay, so then, because creationism is based on blind faith, not science, in your view it should not be acknowledged in an educational system. That is
your view, correct?

Let's see, art cannot be defined by science, let's ban that from school too. (I mean how can we even think about discussing Da Vinci's work in school, we'd have to explain that the Last Supper wasn't what was for dinner the night before). Hmm, poetry comes from the soul, yikes, we better ban that too, science can't prove the soul exists, there for it doesn't. Better pull Joyce Kilmer's poems out of school. UH-OH, science can't explane imagination either, there goes creative writing too. Better yet, we all know that written history is merely subjective opinions of the people writing it, opinions aren't fact, lets can history class too. (Most of it was written by religious people anyways.)

Thats a strawman argument and you know it. gjhdiver was talking about teaching creationism on a par with evolution, in the same classes. Creationism does have a (limited) place in schools, in a class about religion, not a science class.

You see, we don't teach Da Vinci's art in Science class, we don't teach Joyce Kilmers poems in Science class and we don't teach history in Science class. Why should religion be any different?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

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Simple, yes/no question, is evolution a theory or a fact?

the sticker does not even mention any other theory, does not mention God, and only state that evolution is a theory, which it is... a student reading the sticker does not see or hear the intent you assume is behind it.

Bwaahaahaa. Do you really have such a low opinion of high school students that you think they don't know what it's all about? You reckon they go to school, come straight back home and stick their heads in the sand?

Priceless.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?