WELCOME TO THE USA!!!

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Language and culture are two totally different things

I strongly disagree. A language is the reflection of a culture.

so you are telling me that having a conversation or attempting to have a conversation with someone in the usa that speaks spanish is a way to experience their culture? Bullshit. Language has nothing to do with culture.

IMO learning another language is the beginning of learning another culture, Fisrt you have to be able to communicate (if you want to) than you can prceed to the next stage (if you want to).

Not beating up on you. The US is a large melting pot but we're still kind of isolated by geography. The rest of the world can be a very interesting place it's up to you.

Don't want to
R.I.P.

[gravityizsexy 0]

Reading most of this thread has me concerned why nobody
has mentioned the spectrum of american culture. Anyone
who hops around enough is SURE to see very distinct
characteristics in dealings with urban, suburbian, and
country peoples... Then there is also a HUGE difference
in all three categories incorperating the black vs. white
cultures in america. What say you to the black citizens
of america who do not agree with the "american" way
of life? Go back to Africa??? The way I see it, African-
Americans hold a share in well more than %50 of what
America produces considering adolescent american
annuities was almost purely made off of slave labor,
without which this country would NOT have survived.

Your theory of one culture (american) sounds more to
me as saying, just because we grew up here makes us
american. Technically yes, we would be classed as americans
to marketing and advertising groups for demographic value. But tell me, what traditions do we as americans
celebrate that did not transpire overseas???

I believe that our multiculture history has breed america
good fortune. When we come together we are able
to break communication barriers world over with goal-oriented
progress on a highly advanced level (bringing in
centuries of knowledge from the world over)
as oppose to comptetion-fueled progress.
I guess when you have every country in the world
put their peas in the same pot big,small, fat, skinny
,blue,green, ripe, rotten, bitter, salty, sweet, etc.. you get america.
And our pea soup taste great!

-Tony

P.S. - And if you pay taxes.... I don't care if you just got
off the boat or just turned 18 and bought a house, If
you pay taxes on ANYTHING (in america of course)you
can come over here and piss on the language if you
want. <------ (I guess that answers my own question
about american tradition, taxes people... Im referring
to taxes)

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[freeflight 0]

[quote
We are
happy with our culture and have no desire to change,
and
from a Tampa newspaper editorial... either way i like what this says

dude, the nature of humans and thus of human culture is very fluid. us is not the only country that is changing constantly. the world is changing, dont be afraid...


hitler published his ideas too

[tantalum 0]

Actually it goes much deeper than that: we do know that language (both syntax and semantics) dramatically affect the perception of reality. After all: "for what there are now words, one cannot speak of."

Good beginning for anyone interested is the "Tractatus Logico Philosophicus" by 19-th century Austrian Ludwig Wittgenstein. Not light, but essential!

PS.: I would argue that French affords a very different (better?!) perception of reality than English.

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Eskimos have several different words for what we call "snow." To us, they all mean "snow", but to them, each is different from the others, representing a different kind of snow. Because their culture is affected by their geographic locale and its inherent climate, the extra thought their culture has put into snow shows up in their language. We don't need several words for snow because our culture is more concerned with when and how much as opposed to what kind.

Of course this is but a single example of how culture can manifest in language.

[blitzkrieg 0]

i just like the general message from this editorial...

if you're looking for some deep insightful underlying meaning within, i can't help you. i'm just happy doing things my way for a country i've been serving as a bullet catcher for a decade now, and don't want to see that effort go to waste.

i cannot speak for all americans, mainly because like any people in this world i find some right out embarrassing. but i've learned foreign languages of countries i've had no interest in every visiting, let alone defending, simply to ease my understanding and acceptance of their culture. retrospectively, i've been disgusted with the complete ignorance of individuals that live beside me, that think they have every right to vote for my future that know nothing about anything more than what's going on in their neighborhood gang.

anyway, sorry. i could go on and on, just my opinions that don't mean anything to anyone but me... which is all that matters.

take the article for what it's worth... it was a free post!

~E

[freeflight 0]

i do agree with the point of knowing an official language of the country you live in. when i first ran into people who spent last 20 years of their lives in brooklyn, never left it to go anywhere, and yet, managed to not know english at all, i was plain horrified. as far as voting, on top of language i would require a demonstration of general knowledge of the world and domestic issues/problems. maybe even throw an iq test in there. plato said a long time ago that the problem of democracy is that you let idiots to decide on your future.
the overall feeling of that article though, is somehow not so much about language, but change. the refusal to adapt to an ever changing life by the author of the article is the same as the refusal of those immigrants to learn the language of their new home.

the need to maintain personal identity in this cultural soup is manifested in many ways of which some are far from intelligent.

I do believe that a country should be defined by something other then pegan symbols.




ps
please forgive my grammar

[Frenchy68 0]

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as far as voting, on top of language i would require a demonstration of general knowledge of the world and domestic issues/problems. maybe even throw an iq test in there. plato said a long time ago that the problem of democracy is that you let idiots to decide on your future.

It would be even more dangerous for democracy to have someone decide on a threshold of knowledge/idiocy. It would be a great way to weed out political oponents. Besides, it would be as anti-democratic as can be.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[billvon 3,080]

>i would require a demonstration of general knowledge of the world
> and domestic issues/problems. maybe even throw an iq test in
> there. plato said a long time ago that the problem of democracy is
> that you let idiots to decide on your future.

Would you be OK with that even if you didn't pass it, and thus became a second class non-voting citizen?

Democracy means everyone has a say in government, whether white, black, smart, dumb, male, female etc. The system you are describing is a meritocracy, where only the favored class votes/runs things.

[freeflight 0]

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"Would you be OK with that even if you didn't pass it, and thus became a second class non-voting citizen? "


absolutely, for the same reason i do not tell a surgeon how to perform a heart surgery or a fireman how to put out a fire. being a functioning citizen of society bares responsibility. if there were criteria meeting which was required in order to participate in the election process i would most certainly do my best and try to meet them. if i fail, well tough shit, but i will step aside and let those that know what they are doing and why, do it without my involvement.

now, with that said the question will be how do you decide what are the measures for qualifications. i think that could be thought through in detail with enough effort.

of course, none of that would be necessary if we had an education system that insured its graduates to be fit to function.


ps
don't forget that half the country chooses to be "second class non-voting citizens" on their own.

[freeflight 0]

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"It would be even more dangerous for democracy to have someone decide on a threshold of knowledge/idiocy."

don't you think that having people not know or understand what their representatives elect are doing, is even more dangerous?

[Frenchy68 0]

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don't you think that having people not know or understand what their representatives elect are doing, is even more dangerous?

I don't know it it's more or less dangerous, but certainly less democratic if you prevent them from voting. Otherwise, it turns into an elitist system (it already is enough IMHO). And once again, who would decide which citizen is worthy and which one is unworthy of casting a ballot? You? Me? Billvon? Tunaplanet? Quade? Ron? (Tired of going through the usual suspects...)
Democracy should not be the exclusivity of the smart and/or educated and/or wealthy and/or [pick someone]... based on some very (at best) subjective criteria. My humble opinion...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Nightingale 0]

Funks-

Have you ever read "Why don't they learn English?" by Lucy Tse? If not, take a look at it if you have time. It's short, only 100 pages, and written in plain old English. It's a fascinating read and it covers a topic you seem very interested in.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0807740969/qid=1106126013/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-9958466-5851063?v=glance&s=books&n=507846