Cults & "brainwashing"

[SpeedRacer 1]

What do you think about cults & brainwashing?

If an adult joins a cult run by some charismatic leader that convinces all the cult members to give him all their money & possessions, should anything be done about it? Any intervention? Or do you just say, 'well, s/he is an adult, if it makes him happy to wear pajamas & be duped by the cult leader, then, let him alone."

What if it was someone you know?

I'm talking about cults here, not traditional religious groups. By cults I mean organizations which impose excessive control over every aspect of life & impose a doctrine of rejection of "outsiders" etc...

There was a guy back in the '80s whose name was something like Baghwan Rajneesh who duped a bunch of rich morons into his cult. Mike Wallace tried to do an expose of him on 60 minutes.... Rajneesh was totally honest & upfront with him. Mike Wallace:Isn't it true that your followers gave you 70 Rolls Royces?
Baghwan: No.
MW: Fifty Rolls Royces???
Baghwan: No.........NINETY Rolls Royces!

Later Mike Wallace asks him shouldn't he (rajneesh), as a leader of a religion, make some effort to help the poor? Baghwan Rajneesh responded, "Let other religions take care of the poor, I will take care of the rich."

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[ahegeman 0]

If it was only adults involved in the bizarreness, I would say no. Inevitably, however, the children of the "believers" seem to always end up being victimized somehow.

---------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry

[Nightingale 0]

sometimes, the only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.

[Zenister 0]

Quote

sometimes, the only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.

and the length of time it has been formed...

nearly every religion was once a 'cult' by other religion's stanadards

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Nightingale 0]

very true. the followers of Jesus may have been looked upon as a cult by mainstream society.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

sometimes, the only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.

yeah, if you use a broad definition of a cult, it could just be a small religion.

But I'm talking about one that involves excessive amounts of psychological manipulation, that overwhelmingly controls nearly every aspect of the members' lives, that forces its members to reject the "outside" society, that manipulates its members to raise money for the cult by any means necessary, and that is led by a charismatic, messianic leader or leadership.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Zenister 0]

you are creating your own rather strict definition of 'cult', but most religions do exactly as you describe to a greater or lesser extent.. the more extreme version you are using doesnt tend to thrive to terribly long as it eventually runs afowl of basic human nature

but realistically, no. We shouldnt do anything to 'protect people from their own stupidity' even when they involve their children in what could be veiwed as 'fringe religions'

IMO forcing any minor to attend any religious institution where they undergo indocrination and the 'peer' presure to conform to a belief is a form of psychological abuse. But as long as that decision is made by the parents, the state shouldnt be involved in any way, shape or form, no matter what the religion or how far its beliefs differ from 'mainstream religions'

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

sometimes, the only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.

yeah, if you use a broad definition of a cult, it could just be a small religion.

But I'm talking about one that involves excessive amounts of psychological manipulation, that overwhelmingly controls nearly every aspect of the members' lives, that forces its members to reject the "outside" society, that manipulates its members to raise money for the cult by any means necessary, and that is led by a charismatic, messianic leader or leadership.

Sounds like Scientologists.... lol

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

But I'm talking about one that involves excessive amounts of psychological manipulation, that overwhelmingly controls nearly every aspect of the members' lives, that forces its members to reject the "outside" society, that manipulates its members to raise money for the cult by any means necessary, and that is led by a charismatic, messianic leader or leadership.

Like Christianity before the printing press?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[slug 1]

Read the Yates thread and her bio

Someone missed the boat with a very sad ending.

R.I.P.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

I'm talking about cults here, not traditional religious groups. By cults I mean organizations which impose excessive control over every aspect of life & impose a doctrine of rejection of "outsiders" etc...

1. Rejection of others as "apostate" religions?
Almost all of them. The Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons are famous for it, but the Catholics and Baptists don't think too highly of each other either.

2. Collection of money?
The televangelists are most notable for this, however many religions encourage people to "mention them in their will". Television evangelists in the US are mostly Christian. Many older people are manipulated into giving their stock holdings to the church on their deaths.

I have been approached by members of every religion for money. Of course, members will respond, "That isn't the usual for my religion... that wasn't a real member..." Every one, more than once.

If people want whatever religion provides them, they should pay for it, just like any other service.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Every one, more than once.

Even Buddhists and Taoists?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

Every one, more than once.

Even Buddhists and Taoists?

My friend said that he was going to a meditation seminar at the local univ. I went with him. After the seminar, the people in charge asked me if I was interested enough to attend a weekend retreat. Eventually, it got to "...yes, we do ask for a donation". No free attendance.

Twice, I've had Buddhists come up to me and say, "Hello, I am a wandering Buddhist priest. If you will give me a small donation, I will say this (holding a piece of paper) prayer for you. I suspect they were just normal bum scams though.

(edited to add...)
This is my fav scam. At the entrances to parking lots (music concerts, quite often), a person will come up to the car window.

"Hi, I'm with the and we'd like to give you some free candy." (You open the car window) "Would you like to donate some money? Spare pocket change?"

5 pieces of 1-cent candy and he gets 35 cents in pocket change. 700% in one week. Not a bad return-on-investment.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

My friend said that he was going to a meditation seminar at the local univ. I went with him. After the seminar, the people in charge asked me if I was interested enough to attend a weekend retreat. Eventually, it got to "...yes, we do ask for a donation". No free attendance.

Twice, I've had Buddhists come up to me and say, "Hello, I am a wandering Buddhist priest. If you will give me a small donation, I will say this (holding a piece of paper) prayer for you. I suspect they were just normal bum scams though.

I was just asking. I don't doubt your experiences. The wandering Buddhists asking for money/ food seems to be the most authentic example of Buddhism (of the examples you provided), which, in some forms, promotes giving up all worldly possessions in favor of allowing God to provide their food and shelter, via the kindness of strangers. In our materialist society, this would be interpreted as begging.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

In our materialist society, this would be interpreted as begging.

Good point. If they were genuine, I may have been wrong. In downtown Tampa, every second drunk has a religion that he is collecting for.

Individuals in all religions can be sincere. People with a pair of $50K Mercedes have missed a point somewhere.

A friend of my mothers was a surgeon and missionary in Korea. I always sent him money directly because I knew he would put it to good use and do good deeds.

I don't give money to support the addition of new gargoyles to large buildings. I don't give money to anyone who talks to invisible people.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Good point. If they were genuine, I may have been wrong. In downtown Tampa, every second drunk has a religion that he is collecting for.

I don't mean to imply that religion is never exploited for profit. Nor am I trying to argue that only Western religions (to include Western cults) are the ones that do it. It can and does happen with some of the Eastern religions (at least here in America) as well.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[slug 1]

Interesting subject again
Is skydiving a cult? Have some skydivers been brainwashed?

I belong to a cult and like it just fine
I know I've been brainwashed and don't even have a problem with that
Reason: My cult only has one leader and member Me.

We just go with the flow and do our own thing because we can.

Some time in the future we'll all get together at the big cult convention on tthe other side of the light. If I'm not there start with out me.

R.i.P.

[funks 1]

Quote

very true. the followers of Jesus may have been looked upon as a cult by mainstream society.

The catholic church is exactly that. A cult.

Stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, repeat after me, give me your money, go and do as i say.

The catholic church tries to have way to much influence over its members. They would take an old ladies last dollar if she was willing to offer it. Definitely a "business oriented cult" in my opinion.

[bisqit999 0]

Quote

The wandering Buddhists asking for money/ food seems to be the most authentic example of Buddhism (of the examples you provided), which, in some forms, promotes giving up all worldly possessions in favor of allowing God to provide their food and shelter, via the kindness of strangers. In our materialist society, this would be interpreted as begging.

If this religion were correct...and every single person in the world followed it....who would be the "strangers" ???

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

If this religion were correct...and every single person in the world followed it....who would be the "strangers" ???

There is no reason to believe that this religion is not correct, any more than there is reason to claim Christianity is not correct, or that Islam is not correct, or that Judaism is not correct, etc.

I doubt anyone could find the time in their life to meet all 6.2 billion people in the world twice (they would still be a stranger the first time).

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[likearock 2]

Quote

Quote

If this religion were correct...and every single person in the world followed it....who would be the "strangers" ???

There is no reason to believe that this religion is not correct, any more than there is reason to claim Christianity is not correct, or that Islam is not correct, or that Judaism is not correct, etc.

I doubt anyone could find the time in their life to meet all 6.2 billion people in the world twice (they would still be a stranger the first time).

The point is that, if everyone in the world followed the philosophy of relying on the kindness of strangers (shades of Blanche duBois), there wouldn't be any strangers to rely on!

Wayne

[Zenister 0]

silly assertion... how about you go read a bit on the Buddhist faith then come back a bit more enlightened.

you are missing the point completely..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[bisqit999 0]

Quote

silly assertion... how about you go read a bit on the Buddhist faith then come back a bit more enlightened.

you are missing the point completely..

Just playin on the words. I'm sure there is more to it than what I was talkin about. As far as reading up on it.....I have no interest in being enlightened in something that I could not possibly believe in. Just MY agnostic beliefs.

[br0k3n 0]

Quote

sometimes, the only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.

Religion teaches you how to be in the world, while a cult tries to take you out of the world. A religion gives its members guidance and support in how to survive and get along out in the world. However cults always try to isolate their members from the world. Cults want their members to live together, usually in isolation, and break off all contact with friends or family who aren't also members of the cult.

A religion in change is defined as a "personal or institutionalized system grounded in the belief, worship and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe". It also has a "set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader". Religions are usually "ancient or very old in years" and have "millions of followers".

Therefore, a religion is not necessarily a cult, but a cult is nearly always a religion

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Lindsey 0]

Quote

Religion teaches you how to be in the world, while a cult tries to take you out of the world. A religion gives its members guidance and support in how to survive and get along out in the world. However cults always try to isolate their members from the world. Cults want their members to live together, usually in isolation, and break off all contact with friends or family who aren't also members of the cult.

Religions often take people out of the world and isolate its memebers by defining for people what is good and bad, holy and evil. Many people, because of their religion, see all Muslims (as a timely example) as bad because their church or religious group defines Muslims in a certain way. There are many, many more examples. I read something in a previous thread about Baptists and Catholics....about Mormons....nobody has much to say about the Methodists. But either way, peoples connection with the rest of the world is very often limited by religion. Maybe the cults that we hear most about have been extremely controlling in these areas (Heaven's Gate and People's Temple come immediately to mind), but I'm sure there are many other "cults" that aren't so easily distinguished from any other religious sect around.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail