Andrea Yate's Murder Convictions Overturned

[Michele 1]

From CNN
"(CNN) -- A Texas appeals court in Houston on Thursday ordered a new trial for Andrea Yates, the woman who confessed to drowning her five children in a bathtub, citing the false testimony of a prosecution witness."

While it was overturned due to a witness giving false testimony, I've always strongly disagreed with her convictions.

The woman suffered from Post Partum Psychosis at the time of the murders; and further research on Andrea's life shows that she had been in and out of mental hospitals, had had much treatment (some which didn't work), and was clearly told to not have any more children (due to her past Post Partum issues).

There is no way she was understanding reality; no way she understood what was right and wrong; and no way she was able to assist her defense.

I for one am glad that she will receive a new trial, and maybe this time she will get found "guilty by reason of mental incapacity" or however they phrase it.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[unformed 0]

If someone has that many issues they shouldn't be allowed on the streets.

OTOH, I know (from personal experience) that som doctors (specifically phycologists/psychiatrists) take their power way too far and don't realize when someone's not really unstable, but is just going through hard times.

Regardless, this woman killed her five children; she shouldn't be allowed on the streets. I don't care if that's jail, a mental hospital, or six feet underground. (My personal opinion is on the latter, but whatever.)

If she can be "fixed" or whatever the word so she can function in society again, that would be fine, but I would doubt it.

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[tigra 0]

Geez,

I don't know. A new trial is fair based on the "expert witness" issue, but she was TOLD by medical experts not to have more children and did it anyway? What about her husband? (And that's a contradiction to the defense claiming she'd been misdiagnosed and mistreated most of her life, isn't it?) If they were both aware of the severity of her condition and any potential consequences, doesn't that make them BOTH at least partially responsible? Clearly, this wasn't her first bout with post partum issues- I wonder if they escalated with each child. Wasn't she understanding reality when she got pregnant? Maybe her children would still be alive if she and her husband hadn't decided to roll the dice with just one more.

The whole thing is sad.

[AggieDave 6]

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I for one am glad that she will receive a new trial, and maybe this time she will get found "guilty by reason of mental incapacity" or however they phrase it.

Eitherway, she still killed her five children by drowning them one by one. She drowned her own kids one by one. She had to hold their heads under the water one at a time while they kicked and struggled with her. She did this 5 times! She didn't just kill one with a knife and it was over, this took time, this took dedication...

Manson isn't mentally stable and he's going to be in jail for the rest of his life, this women should be lucky to only be in jail for the rest of her life. I would be fully disappointed if she gets lucky and gets to go to a mental institution for a few years then released due to this new trial.

The entire situation made me sick when I first hear about it, now I'm upset and nearly sick to my stomach thinking about those kids.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DrunkMonkey 0]

She should rot in prison for the rest of her life. If this idiot gets out, she'll be able to have more kids she could potentially kill...

[tigra 0]

You know, I found the "mandatory birth control/ sterilization" thread that was here a while back to be hateful and disturbing, but in a case like this, it seems to apply. She shouldn't be allowed in society, she shouldn't be allowed to have any more children! And her husband? He left his mentally ill wife alone with his children! Isn't that reckless endangerment? I guess that's something he'll need to live with for the rest of his life, but he doesn't deserve any more children either.

[gjhdiver 0]

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From CNN
"(CNN) -- A Texas appeals court in Houston on Thursday ordered a new trial for Andrea Yates, the woman who confessed to drowning her five children in a bathtub, citing the false testimony of a prosecution witness."

The woman is barely functional on any level apparently. Even the prosecution admitted that she wasn't really responsible for her actions, but the McNaughton rule on insanity is so narrow that even someone as disturbed as her couldn't qualify. Both prosecution and defense psychiatrists diagnosed her as a severe paranoid schitzophrenic who was a danger to herself and other around her.

I think she needs to be in a medical facilty, not a jail. If anyone deserves to be in a jail, it's that religious nutbag of a husband of hers, that kept forcing a seriously disturbed woman to have kids against medical advice, telling her it was God's plan for them, whilat her mental state clearly deteriorated to all those that knew her.

The saddest thing about this is that it could have been avoided if a combintaion of religious fundamentalism, lack of medical care, and an unconcerned doctor hadn't just left a severely disturbed woman on the edge alone, to care for and attempt to home school five small children.

[Michele 1]

I agree, the whole thing is a vile representation of humanity.

Her husband - and Drs - should all be held liable. I think that if she lives the rest of her life in a mental institution, where she gets treatment and help, that would be satisfactory to me.

Post Partum Psychosis is real. Schitzophrenia is real (which I believe, although I could be wrong, she was diagnosed with.) Both cause significant breaks with reality. Both prevent someone from knowing right from wrong. Both are treatable. Both are deadly when left untreated.

I wonder, though, at some of the comments. If it could be proved she was mentally ill, does one then also advocate the death penalty? If it could be demonstrated without any doubt that she suffered, and that the murders occurred during a psychotic break, does one then also believe her life is forfeit?

If she does get found guilty by reason of insanity, then rest assured she will spend a whole lot of time in a facility. She will not be "released" before she goes through menopause (if she ever is released), as she's 40 now. If she's released, it won't be to her husband, because he divorced her. She would likely go into a residential care facility after her incarceration, and there is slim possibility she would be dating, let alone have sex, get pregnant, carry to term, and deliver. As for her adopting, that's pretty unlikely, too.

Yes, the crime was horrific. I was utterly aghast when I heard of it...but if there is an underlying medical reason, why shouldn't that be a mitigating factor? Why shouldn't she get treatment and help? Why shouldn't it be understood that people can be insane, and do things like this?

After all, the guy who shot Reagan for the love of Jodie Foster is only *now* being allowed unsupervised visits to his family. And he didn't even kill anyone.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[tigra 0]

For what its worth, I agree with both you and Michele. And I do think a new trial is fair if they judged her responsible for her actions based on false testimony by their "expert witness" from NBC of all places.

[SBS 0]

I agree with you.

I would like to see a murderer who is "normal". How do we determine which types of mental illness qualify you to commit these heinous crimes and not be held to the same standards as the rest of humanity.

Yes, this is worse than stabbing YOUR CHILD to death in an instant of rage or unclarity. But WTF??? She took the time to get her 5 (FIVE) CHILDREN!!! HER CHILDREN!!! one by one and KILL THEM. SHE KILLED HER CHILDREN!!! But even if she were to kill only one of HER CHILDREN, how sick and twisted is that?

How is this excusable in any way? Why should this woman be allowed to hide behind anything at all???

I find this to be incredibly disturbing news.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[Lindsey 0]

Psychosis is a real phenomenon. I didn't follow this situation closely at all, and I don't know what her mental state was. IF she was psychotic then I can see that she might not be held accountable. If a person whom I had been close to lost touch with reality and did some horrible, horrible, unthinkable thing, I would probably be in disbelief. It would probably be a lot easier to see the injustice in convicting a psychotic person of a crime if the person were a real person whom I had been close to.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[unformed 0]

We should just kill both of them, the husband and wife; clean this mess off of our hands. The world will be a much better place.

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[SBS 0]

I see your point, but the fact that her 5 children are dead is very real as well.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[unformed 0]

It's one thing to be psychotic. It's a different thing to be a psychotic person.

A psychotic person can still offer some use to the world. A psychotic murderer which will kill randomly based on whatever schizophrenic thought crosses her mind should be allowed to live amongst civilized society.

If I was psychotic, I would be insulted to have a schizophrenic murderer in the same treatment facility as me.

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[slug 1]

From what I've "heard" on CNN

A new trial is "under consideration". IOW if the women is not functional she can't even particapate win her defense. What the point of sending her to prison she's already a prisoner of her mental illness.

People can understand when they see a person with a physical disability, but when a person is totally loony tunes some people don't want to take that into consideration.

Weused to have a system of "mental institutions" but for vairous reasons they've been closed. Now we send the mentally ill to prision. IMO a step backwards for the treatment of the truely mentally ill.

I agree that the womens husbandand Dr's droped the ball but they seem to be falling between the cracks. The "expert" witness Whats their excuse

IMO Need to find a better way to solve these problems before the the damage is done.

R.I.P.

[rmsmith 1]

How do these kind of families afford their lifestyles of wanton medical care and unchecked childbirth? Who is the irresponsible enabler?

[Michele 1]

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How do these kind of families afford their lifestyles of wanton medical care and unchecked childbirth? Who is the irresponsible enabler?

Note sure if you're joking...but in case you aren't, Rusty Yates was (is?) in the employ of NASA, paid highly. At one point in their life, they gave everything up and lived in a converted bus (for religious reasons, iirc), but had bought a home in the 'burbs with their 3rd child (again, iirc.).

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[rmsmith 1]

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Note sure if you're joking...but in case you aren't, Rusty Yates was (is?) in the employ of NASA, paid highly. At one point in their life, they gave everything up and lived in a converted bus (for religious reasons, iirc), but had bought a home in the 'burbs with their 3rd child (again, iirc.).

No, I wasn't kidding. I'm supporting a family and household on one income, and it isn't easy to do these days. And just pumping money into it isn't enough either; it's hard to believe anyone could manage a home life and work life that appear to be so far apart. I used to work in the collection business, and it was interesting to read some of the detailed credit reports concerning a debtor's downfall.

[Keith 0]

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Her husband - and Drs - should all be held liable.

I've never understood why her husband was never held accountable. If anyone deserves jail time, it's him.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Ron 10]

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I've never understood why her husband was never held accountable. If anyone deserves jail time, it's him.

What was he going to do? Seralize her against her and her husbands will?

This woman is insane and killed 5 of her children. She should never see the sun again.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[crozby 0]

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This woman is insane and killed 5 of her children. She should never see the sun again.

If she is insane, why should she be punished for it? Insanity isn't a choice, it is an illness isn't it?

[rehmwa 2]

Whether she's in jail or an institution is not important - that she is locked away from children from now on is. She killed 5 children (for whatever reason) and there is no reason she wouldn't do it again if free. To protect those of us and the children that don't make a habit of killing children, she should be removed from society.

The husband and doctor? That's a separate issue from 'her actions'. However, they should also be examined as potential threats to the rest of society based on their actions. But never forget the Andrea made the choice to do the deed.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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If she is insane, why should she be punished for it? Insanity isn't a choice, it is an illness isn't it?

It's not about 'punishing' her. It's about removing her from society so she doesn't kill another child.

Justice is about protecting the rest of us from known threats, it's not about punishing the criminal, or closure for the victims, or rehab, or other self congratulatory social experimentation or touchy feely aspects. It's functional and practical. The other stuff is side effects for those can't understand this.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[crozby 0]

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To protect those of us and the children that don't make a habit of killing children, she should be removed from society.

I think that is probably a bit extreme given the nature of the illness she was suffering. As long as she is prevented from having children she should not be a danger to anyone.

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Postpartum depression (PPD) can happen a few days or even months after childbirth. PPD can happen after the birth of any child, not just the first child. A woman can have feelings similar to the baby blues - sadness, despair, anxiety, irritability - but she feels them much more strongly than she would with the baby blues. PPD often keeps a woman from doing the things she needs to do every day. When a woman's ability to function is affected, this is a sure sign that she needs to see her health care provider right away. If a woman does not get treatment for PPD, symptoms can get worse and last for as long as 1 year. While PPD is a serious condition, it can be treated with medication and counseling.

(http://www.4woman.gov/faq/postpartum.htm)

[Ron 10]

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If she is insane, why should she be punished for it? Insanity isn't a choice, it is an illness isn't it?

She is a danger. You said that counsiling and medication MIGHT help.

She has killed 5 of her own children. She is insane, she should never be free again.

Her walking the streets is a risk we are putting on society as a whole. The cost of being wrong is she kills another.

She is already an ACE.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334