Do the moderators play favorites in deciding who to ban?

[penniless 0]

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Sorry, Penniless was the potluck writer, not me. Too bad too, it was a good analogy that I'd love to take credit for

Hey, take whatever you need, I've got lots more.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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It all depends on whether you think SC is here for the benefit of the users or of the moderators or HH. If the user's perceptions don't count for anything, you are quite right. Generally speaking, ignoring your user base is not a smart way of conducting your business.

This site is still free. I wouldn't call it a business. The business side has no effect on me. If I do something the Moderators don't like, they will kick me off the site. Simple. I din't pay to be here, it is a priviledge. I can be banned for absolutely no reason at all. Moderators don't do that. They do their uptmost to be fair and keep the site an joyable place for all. In doing so, they are going to piss some people off, there is no way around that. You cannot make everyone happy. Just like a court verdict, the loser is going to think the judge was unfair and the winner will think the judge was fair. The judge's job is to be as fair as possible, following the rules, not keep everyone happy.

I think there is a perception that HH owes us something. He doesn't. Nothing. Don't like the site? Don't click on it. Don't want to contribute? Bye bye.

Derek

[penniless 0]

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It all depends on whether you think SC is here for the benefit of the users or of the moderators or HH. If the user's perceptions don't count for anything, you are quite right. Generally speaking, ignoring your user base is not a smart way of conducting your business.

This site is still free. I wouldn't call it a business. The business side has no effect on me. If I do something the Moderators don't like, they will kick me off the site. Simple. I din't pay to be here, it is a priviledge. I can be banned for absolutely no reason at all. Moderators don't do that. They do their uptmost to be fair and keep the site an joyable place for all. In doing so, they are going to piss some people off, there is no way around that. You cannot make everyone happy. Just like a court verdict, the loser is going to think the judge was unfair and the winner will think the judge was fair. The judge's job is to be as fair as possible, following the rules, not keep everyone happy.

I think there is a perception that HH owes us something. He doesn't. Nothing. Don't like the site? Don't click on it. Don't want to contribute? Bye bye.

Derek

This isn't a court, it's a forum. A forum is useless without a venue (which part HH generously provides) and its equally useless without participants. You are saying that the views of the participants count for nothing. I think you are wrong.

[PhillyKev 0]

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OK, so its purpose is not to make money for HH, but to provide charity to the users in a non-measurable way such that their perceptions don't matter because they're lucky to get it anyway. Did I get it right?

Yep, that's how I see it in a broad view. On a more personal level, I think he does care, that's why he offers it in the first place. But his concerns about what constitutes fairness are more limited in scope to skydiving related interests only. The rest is gravy.

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And I thought you opposed faith-based intiatives!

You thought wrong. I think they're great. I don't think they should be publicly funded.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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This isn't a court, it's a forum. A forum is useless without a venue (which part HH generously provides) and its equally useless without participants. You are saying that the views of the participants count for nothing. I think you are wrong.

I think the number of participants and how it is increasing prove me right. If they were treated unfairly, there wouldn't be anyone one the site. Clearly they think things are OK or better because they are here and participating.

The views of the participants are taken into consideration, but the site is run how HH wants it run. If someone feels that he isn't running it how he should, they can express that opinion, but HH is under no obligation to change anything based on that person's opinion.

This ain;t no damned democracy

Derek

[penniless 0]

Derek,

The opening sentence in this thread reads:

"Please don't ban me for this; "

Now, does that indicate anything to you? Do you not think there's the slightest suggestion in that sentence that something is amiss with the banning policy here? Or is Mardigrasbob deluded?

[wmw999 2,556]

From the rules:

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"Gripe" threads about any action from a moderator including "Where did my post go?" posts will be removed. If you have questions about a moderator's action and they did not provide a reason for the intervention, please contact them via private message.

This thread could be taken as a "gripe" thread. So, while removing it would would be seen as being a little too strong a reaction, it could also be seen as being within the stated rules of the forum.

Banning for starting it would only be reasonable if the originator had pushed those limits repeatedly and hard most likely -- I haven't ever seen him do either.

Of course, I'm not a moderator, but if they're reasonable they must think like me because, after all, I'm reasonable .

So no, I don't really see a problem. I might've started it the same way, and I've never been banned. Warned once, but I had to really work at it to get warned

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Tf15 0]

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From the rules:

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"Gripe" threads about any action from a moderator including "Where did my post go?" posts will be removed. If you have questions about a moderator's action and they did not provide a reason for the intervention, please contact them via private message.

This thread could be taken as a "gripe" thread. So, while removing it would would be seen as being a little too strong a reaction, it could also be seen as being within the stated rules of the forum.


Wendy W.

Removing a thread and banning the thread starter are quite different outcomes.

One greenie has participated, so that suggests to me that it's not a banned topic.

And "This thread could be" and "it could also be" suggests that you yourself are somewhat unclear about the rules.
You haven't been banned? How many females have been banned?

Three times is enemy action

[Hooknswoop 19]

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The opening sentence in this thread reads:

"Please don't ban me for this; "

Now, does that indicate anything to you? Do you not think there's the slightest suggestion in that sentence that something is amiss with the banning policy here? Or is Mardigrasbob deluded?

I don't think he is deluded, he just realizes he is pushing the limits of the rules with this thread.

Believe me, there are several people I would have banned if I had let it get personal. Oftens times the Moderators will remove themselves from a banning decision if they are ihnvolved in the discussion or have a 'history' with the person in question. You do not realize the effort that goes into being fair.

Derek

[LouDiamond 1]

[SARCASM]LALALALALALLALA SQUISHING THE CUPCAKES HEADS[/SARCASM]


I tried following this for most of the pages but the discussion has been so diuted that the point is no longer even the topic or relevant to the masses anymore.

If you want, I'm sure we could arrange for everyone in this thread to be banned and then we could dispell any notion of moderators playing favorites and/or political sides but what would it really solve?

Lawrocket was pretty spot on in what I am sure he pared to the bone, examples of what happens in life and to some extent on this site.

There is always gonna be someone ,somewhere screamming at the top of their lungs "I GOT FUCKED, NO FAIR, HE/ SHE DOESN'T LIKE ME" in life and on this website.

Bottom line is that the moderators give everyone the benefit of the doubt and we look objectively at those who are our problem children. Regardless of ones political orientation,etc etc, there is a moderator from both sides of the coin looking at the issue at hand. So it's not that the left is out for the right or visa versa as we have moderators representing every aspect that may arise and we do look at each issue objectively. With that said, there are a group of people, and they know who they are, that continualy test the boundaries of the rules and try to get around them through creative or less obvious means. Everyone gets their fair warning and these people have had more than their fair share of warnings and explanations via PM and e-mail yet they continue to either attack others in the forums or the moderators when they are told to tone it down.

The straw that broke the camels back analogy is a good one for what goes on in this forum and on this site. Personally, I think it takes 2 to tango and in this forum everyone is guilty of slinging to some extent becasue of the issues involved and I favor banning both parties involved regardless of who was right or who said what first. Normally, I don't favor group punishment but in these instances it is needed IMO since you end up with individuals saying they got banned becasue the moderator is left/Right. Pro/Anti whatever. Ban them both for acting like asses and that excuse holds no water.

As usual though and in life. It is usally only a few bad apples that ruin it for the many or as we say in the Military..."there is always one"

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[nathaniel 0]

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So you're in a boat and several people say they think it's leaking. Do you (1) Deny there's a leak, (2) Say there's a leak but we musn't rock the boat, (3) Ask for suggestions to fix the leak, or (4) say "this is a great boat, if you don't like this boat, get out and swim".

I say it's condensation, and if you persist in trying to "fix" it with your powersander you might sink the boat.

nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[freakbrother 0]

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This ain;t no damned democracy

Derek

That is certainly true. Doesn't mean it's right.

Sometimes it pays to recall the wisdom of the ages. All the following are plagiarized from very smart people..



We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.

Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Better jaw-jaw than war-war.

Good fences make for good neighbors.

To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.


Always do right. That will gratify some of the people, and astonish the rest.

The characteristic of dictatorships is fear. If the people stop fearing the dictator, he'll lose power.

.
.
www.freak-brother.com

[Keith 0]

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Derek,

The opening sentence in this thread reads:

"Please don't ban me for this; "

Now, does that indicate anything to you? Do you not think there's the slightest suggestion in that sentence that something is amiss with the banning policy here? Or is Mardigrasbob deluded?

You're kidding right!?!

Please don't slap me for this; but your logic has nothing to do with actual enforcement of this site.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Hooknswoop 19]

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That is certainly true. Doesn't mean it's right.

Then leave.

DZ.com is what it is. Don't like it? Leave. Feel the Moderators are unfair? Leave. Don't like that DZ.com ain't no damned democracy? Leave. Wan't a democratic DZ.com style web page? Leave and go build it. Try using Rec.Skydiving as a model for your anarchy-governed site. DZ.com not good enough for you? Leave.

I have seen both sides of the fence. I don't see an unfairness or any way to make DZ.com a better site. I hear griping, but no positive ideas. In reality, DZ.com is run extrenely well. That is why there is so many people registered.

I think is very disrespectful to walk into a free site where Moderators work hard to be fair and enforce the rules and whine that it is unfair. It is like a homeless person bitching that the free soup isn't the kind they like. Do you want the soup or not!?!? Don't want the free soup? DON'T EAT IT AND GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE PERSON WHO DOES!!!!

Derek

[TomAiello 26]

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I hope the greenies are cracking up over this thread.

I know I am. It's very humorous. In truth, it's quite educational, too.

But back to the things that made me laugh:

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You've even got a libertarian BASE jumper banning other BASE jumpers for breaking forum rules! HA! Imagine a BASE jumper maintaining order, rule and discipline and exercising authority.

That's got to be the funniest part of the cupcake theorem. At least for me...

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mattjw916 2]

Now THAT was funny... I am suddenly compelled to make some cupcakes. yummmy...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[mikkey 0]

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Now THAT was funny... I am suddenly compelled to make some cupcakes. yummmy...

As Cat in the hat says in the movie: "You can make cupcakes out of anything...."

---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Muenkel 0]

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That's got to be the funniest part of the cupcake theorem. At least for me...

I love the 'cupcake' theorem! Kudos to Lawrocket!

BTW, I too am laughing my ass off at this thread...and I'm not a moderator.

Do any of you folks realize that the moderators have to actually give a "time out" to adults?

Oh the humanity........

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[lawrocket 3]

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But back to the things that made me laugh:


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You've even got a libertarian BASE jumper banning other BASE jumpers for breaking forum rules! HA! Imagine a BASE jumper maintaining order, rule and discipline and exercising authority.

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That's got to be the funniest part of the cupcake theorem. At least for me...

You know, Mr. Tom, I've been waiting a couple of years for the right opportunity to point out that irony.

Speaking of enforcement, am I to expect to meet Mr. and Mrs. T & F if I ever show my ugly face around your parts?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[crwslut 0]

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From the rules:

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"Gripe" threads about any action from a moderator including "Where did my post go?" posts will be removed. If you have questions about a moderator's action and they did not provide a reason for the intervention, please contact them via private message.

This thread could be taken as a "gripe" thread. So, while removing it would would be seen as being a little too strong a reaction, it could also be seen as being within the stated rules of the forum.

Banning for starting it would only be reasonable if the originator had pushed those limits repeatedly and hard most likely -- I haven't ever seen him do either.

Of course, I'm not a moderator, but if they're reasonable they must think like me because, after all, I'm reasonable .

So no, I don't really see a problem. I might've started it the same way, and I've never been banned. Warned once, but I had to really work at it to get warned

Wendy W.

Great server, no serious gripes with the moderators. I don't see a problem as much as I see a potential 'trend' toward sanctioning the ...unpopular. Kind of like the way the 'in' group in the playground excludes the awkward kid. Not cause he broke the rules or attacked anyone, he just wasn't popular.

I used to jump at a DZ a few years back that had a nice bonfire every night. The regulars and DZ staff ran off the ones they just didn't like. It would be a shame if that happened here.

What could possibly go wrong?

[Ron 10]

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I hear griping, but no positive ideas.

I have given suggestions both on line an in PM.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Hooknswoop 19]

I missed them. If you wouldn't mind re-posting them for me? Bear in mind, I can't do anything, I'm just curious. It will also be a hard sell since I don't see a problem that needs fixing.

For agrument's sake, let's say the Moderators are unfair. So what? No one has to log on. Show your dis-satifaction by not logging on and go somewhere where it is fair.

Derek

[TomAiello 26]

In his defense, Ron did suggest that we create some kind of ban (or other moderator action) log, which would be useful to all of us (greenies) in keeping track of people's action across the whole set of forums (even those we don't visit). That suggestion has been passed up the line for discussion (or down the line to the dungeon, if you prefer).

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Hooknswoop 19]

Sounds like a good idea. How hard would it be to impliment it?

For those that think DZ.com Moderators aren't fair. Here is an example of how fair they are. More work for the same pay ($0) to ensure fairness.

Derek

[Ron 10]

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I missed them. If you wouldn't mind re-posting them for me?

Tom wrote:

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In his defense, Ron did suggest that we create some kind of ban (or other moderator action) log, which would be useful to all of us (greenies) in keeping track of people's action across the whole set of forums (even those we don't visit). That suggestion has been passed up the line for discussion (or down the line to the dungeon, if you prefer).

This would allow the Mods a tool to do their job based on more than just a "feeling". It would also allow a check and balance to see if there is a bias. If one guy has been banned for saying "boogger" (Anyone get that old TV reference?) by a guy that has banned him for other non, or small infractions before that they have not done anything to others for the same thing. It would allow the other mods to see if one Mod is using a bias.

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For agrument's sake, let's say the Moderators are unfair. So what? No one has to log on. Show your dis-satifaction by not logging on and go somewhere where it is fair

So if a Mod is unfair nothing should be done about it?

I agree we all have the right to not come here. But you are saying that nothing should be done no matter what if a problem is perceived?

This poll so far 39 have said there is no bias. 61 have said that there is based on things such as friendship (6), Politics (7), or certain Mods (24)

Also bear in mind that I could only vote once...So there are others that feel this way.

Also those that are currently banned can't vote (Kallend), and those that have been given the boot can't either (PJ and Tuna).

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Bear in mind, I can't do anything

Don't be so sure, you are starting to look green again

If you want to continue this please PM me. I have been warned before, so I am dropping this here.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334