Just what the fuck.....

[miked10270 0]

...Does the world and The UN expect America to do regarding the tsunami (insert crisis of choice)!!!?

Don't get me wrong. I beleive that I have an excellent pedigree & track record of Texas/Georgia/Florida/Hawaii/California/.....America bashing (or pi$$ taking - call it what you will).

Regardless of that, [rant]I'M GETTING A BIT SICK OF AMERICA PLEDGING EVER INCREASING AMOUNTS OF AID AND THE WORLD NEWS REPORTING THAT THEY'RE NOT DOING ENOUGH!!![/rant]

I accept and understand that The US IS the world's richest nation, and the only remaining true superpower. What I cannot accept is the expectation that whatever happens in the world, America will pull a Dollar laden rabbit out of the hat and make it all better!

There's a lot of talk of the ugly arrogant American, but the recent news seems to show an ugly avaricious world in it's expectations and demands of American generosity.

And before anyone accuses me of being an ugly arrogant right-wing American... Please check my Scottish Socialist profile.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[dorbie 0]

Is America the world's richest nation? We have a strange concept of rich these days. America is in debt up to it's eyeballs and every dollar America sends in aid will have to be paid for by generations to come. It only contributes to their national debt. America may infact be the worlds poorest nation if looked at on the basis of hard currency reserves vs debt.

America is a productive nation, this is a good thing, does that mean it should dig ever deeper holes of debt whenever someone needs bailing out? There's something very wrong with this situation IMHO. If you give aid it should be given freely and it should be fucking appreciated. If there's one thing I don't like seeing it's America or anyone else giving money or aid to another nation that thinks it's entitled or that America isn't giving enough.

The comments of the U.N. official calling the worlds "richest" nations "Stingy" are entirely inappropriate and started all this crap.

[billvon 3,120]

If we are willing to invade a foreign country, spend tens of billions and kill tens of thousands to achieve a political objective, surely it makes sense to spend the same sort of money if we can achieve political objectives _without_ killing people - if you look at it from a purely practical viewpoint.

[Skyrad 0]

The US for decades has spent billions on war and empire building around the world. Its set itself up as the worlds policeman and daddy. So you can't really bitch when the kids trip over and need a band aid or two.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

The US for decades has spent billions on war and empire building promoting freedom around the world. Its (had to) set itself up as the worlds policeman and daddy since the UN is so completely ineffective in anything except corruption and graft. So you can't really bitch when the kids trip over and need a band aid or two, except that the rest of the world seems to think "Fuck it, the US will take care of it", which is why we had to become the "world's policeman" in the first place.

There, fixed that for ya.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[bodypilot90 0]

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Post:
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The US for decades has spent billions on war and empire building promoting freedom around the world. Its (had to) set itself up as the worlds policeman and daddy since the UN is so completely ineffective in anything except corruption and graft. So you can't really bitch when the kids trip over and need a band aid or two, except that the rest of the world seems to think "Fuck it, the US will take care of it", which is why we had to become the "world's policeman" in the first place.

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There, fixed that for ya.

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Thanks Mike, cound have put it better

[miked10270 0]

My rant isn't about how much aid America is sending, or how much it should send, or whether it's a fair balance for other things america does (the days of selling indulgences has long gone).

My rant is about the worlds expectations, and the criticism in the media. For example; Sky News did a piece on northern Sri-Lanka. Tamil Tiger Teritory. The place has been off limits as too dangerous for years as the Tamil Tigers have fought a terrorist war for independence from Sri-Lanka. ANyway, there was Sky News, reporting how the Tamils have had no help while shooting footage of guys in masks on dirt bikes holding Aks. These guys seemed to have nothing better to do than ride around and stare at the cameras. Then a "spokesman" did a piece to camera complaining that America (whose citizens thay habitually kidnap) and The Government (who they've fought against for years for independence) AREN'T SENDING IN ENOUGH AID!!!!

Then we have the UN, headquartered in America (at largely American expense), which only seems to achieve anything like unanimity when censuring America, demanding that America do more for the "Tsunami Disaster".

Some have stated that America considers itself the worlds "Daddy". If this is so then it has a whole bunck of ungrateful, moody, teenage, money-grabbing Mall-Punk kids.

America seems to be damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[juanesky 0]

Mike haven't agreed you on many other things, but well, I think know you can visualize a little on what has been going on around for a while....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Skyrad 0]

LOL

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mccurley 1]

Quote

the worlds expectations, and the criticism in the media

Quite right. All the critics (including that dick at the UN) should make thier own contributions before they open thier mouths.

I wonder if any have made any contributions at all.
I liked Phillykev's aproach. lead by example and see who follows.

The US is just to easy a target for this kind of critisim from people who shoot thier mouths off for thier own agendas which don't necessarily have anything to do with the problem at hand.

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[billvon 3,120]

>My rant is about the worlds expectations, and the criticism in the media.

No argument there. But that's true of any country. We wanted France to rubber-stamp an invasion of another country, and were outraged when they did not. We wanted China to turn over our airmen immediately after there was a midair collision years back. We wanted Saddam to kill Iranians any way he could, but not develop his own WMD programs. We got very angry indeed when OPEC controls pricing on oil.

Every country wants other countries to do what they want. The nice part about it is that you don't have to listen to them if they're being unreasonable. Figuring out what's reasonable and what's not is one of the jobs any government has to take on.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

If we are willing to invade a foreign country, spend tens of billions and kill tens of thousands to achieve a political objective, surely it makes sense to spend the same sort of money if we can achieve political objectives _without_ killing people - if you look at it from a purely practical viewpoint.

Notwithstanding Mike's excellent correction of your post, you refuse to admit that these events are unrelated and one was about national security. Unfortunately we have another thread on the disaster hijacked by the left's anti-Bush obsessive compulsive disorder.

These arguments about "well you spent money on X so you're wrong not to spend it on Y" reminds me of my 4 year old niece arguing for an icecream. We don't have that money to spend and there's a difference between spending on national security and spending on other causes, like disaster relief, especially when it's treated like the U.S. is *expected* to contribute aid, like somehow it's owed.

Excuse me for thinking that national security is a bigger spending priority than disaster relief abroad. Despite enduring months of rubbish from the left about spending priorities we've always known where their priorities lay w.r.t. national defense. Now with the election over and those debates in the past you can wear your true opposition to military spending on your sleeve. Thankfully the American public never fell for the whitewash.

Every dime you send to the people stricken by this Tsunami will have to be paid for by your grandkids, so talk of America being the richest nation is completely bogus. That's my point, complaining about spending priorities doesn't alter that fact, America is not in fact a rich nation, so this attempt to 'guilt trip' her into spending money it doesn't have on people in need should be viewed in that context.

[masterrig 1]

You make a good point. I have never understood the thinking of our govt. leaders thinking we have to 'police' the rest of the world. I think, some 'bad' choices have been made in regard to where we should be and where we shouldn't be in the world. One thing though. If, we don't like what our 'leaders' are doing, we can vote them out of office and try someone else.

Chuck

[Faber 0]

you are a werry wise man. i hope to meet you and buy you a beer some day.

USA always shows the world how USA likes it.Its ok,but if you want peace and happy faces all arround then you might want to think of the poor people aswell(not only to USA but also to countryes like Denmark).

we often think of how people should live their lives,when we then tryes to convince them to be as us,we get angry to see the bill,what did we expect??

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[billvon 3,120]

>you refuse to admit that these events are unrelated and one was
>about national security.

I don't think that the war in Iraq has increased our security. Indeed, despite an attempt to supress the information, terrorist attacks have increased since we started the Iraq war. On the other hand, aid in the right places can indeed increase our national security. If Mexico was invaded by a foreign country, would that be in our best interest? If an aid package could prevent that, would you oppose it, figuring that having an anti-US presence in mexico can be dealt with later?

We clearly think that pre-emptive invasion to shape other country's governments is acceptable. If that is true, and you can accomplish the same thing with less money and no deaths, only a fool would choose the path to war.

>These arguments about "well you spent money on X so you're wrong
>not to spend it on Y" reminds me of my 4 year old niece arguing for an
>icecream.

If you think that the diplomacy efforts of the US can be compared to a 4 year old arguing for ice cream, then I think you may have a somewhat askew vision of what our government does.

>Now with the election over and those debates in the past you can
>wear your true opposition to military spending on your sleeve.

I am in favor of a strong military; defense of the US is (and always should be) one of the primary functions of our government.

>Every dime you send to the people stricken by this Tsunami will have
>to be paid for by your grandkids . . .

and may save two grandkids in Thailand. Think they will grow up hating the US as much as an Iraqi whose children have been killed? The idea that we can ignore the outside world ended on 9/11 for many people.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Eventhough I am not a Scottish Socialist, i agree with your sentiment.

[miked10270 0]

Hmm.... Now here's a cute media twist...

US Aid: $30mill (as pledged so far by the US Government)

US Population 300Mil.

Scottish Aid: £10mil/$18mil (as given by public donations to banks, charity pledges, etc...)

Scottish Population 4.8Mil.

Total UK donations to disaster: £106mil (£30 Mil Gov & 76Mil private) & climbing from a population of 60mil.



Now... It's entirely possible that the average American finds it impossible to find a way to donate as an individual, wheras in the UK you can barely go into a bank or a shop or a pub without there being a way to donate (usually a collecting tin right next to the cashier for any change you can't be bothered to put in your pocket).

Or is such private donations in the US simply not being reported?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Hmm.... Now here's a cute media twist...

US Aid: $30mill (as pledged so far by the US Government)

I am pretty sure that has been increased to at least $350 million and that is Government only. There have been a fair amount of donations from the private sector as well in both money and goods.

I believe Bill Gates and his wife donated $3 million alone through their foundation.

I don't think it is fair to claim the US is being stingy at this point.

[christelsabine 1]

Just confirmed news:

Germany increased to 500 million Euros.
We are about 80 million Germans.

One of our largest banks, the "Deutsche Bank" donated 10 million.

On of our famous soccer clubs, the Bavarians, donated 300.000.

Private donations in total are about 70 million Euros.

Just to mention.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[mnealtx 0]

Fantastic! Thanks (as a nation) for contributing...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gawain 0]

All this ranting and raving. I agree it sucks. I'll simply state what I've stated before.

When you count all the private fundraising done in this country for charity/relief (which is the bulk of US help to the world, and lack of govt involvement is a good thing): the world is in our shadow to the tune of somewhere between $250-$300 BILLION annually.

Now, if you take out the official donation of $350M, our help in materiel, hardware, manpower will still outweigh most other contributions.

I don't think it should be a contest and I offer a big middle finger to those that think we don't do enough. It is simply an established track record of American help throughout its history and ability to do so.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[miked10270 0]

It's not about the contest - which country is the "most generous". Quite frankly I now start to worry about where all this money & the continuing aid is going to end up rather than where it comes from.

As I said before, my concern is the continuing attitude that America is:

a) Not doing enough.

b) Doing it wrong.

Latest one: A nice shot of the aircraft carrier that the US has on station. Shot of all the F-14s, F/a-18s, A-6s on the deck pointing out that they're all useless & the only thing of any value is the S-60 Seahawks... "And this carrier only has 8 of those".

And the whole tone of this is that America is only doing what they're supposed to do, & that reluctantly, as opposed to all those plucky (non-American) countries, towns, people... who're doing wonderful things for the Tsunami disaster out of the goodness of their hearts.

What's getting to me is the implicit anti-Americanism from the media & other countries - including some parts of the victim countries. OK, America isn't perfect, but there's no way that ANYONE could live up to the expectations that the rest of the world has of America & Americans.

Mike.

PS. This isn't directed at the folk here.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Gawain 0]

The primary role of a US aircraft carrier is to be an extention of military power. It's no different from what the Marines that have been sent from Okinawa are tasked with doing. They aren't extensively trained in relief efforts, they're trained to kill, to be an extension of US military power as well. Never mind the additional helicopters being used from other sources, the C130 and other aircraft which are very well suited for dropping supplies in very confined areas quite accurately.

We (Americans) are damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I am not amused about the lack of outrage that Sri Lanka has rejected Israel's 150 highly-trained, veteran medics who would be able to set up field medical centers in record time.

This isn't much different from Iran throwing the olive branch offered by the US shortly after their earth quake killing 20,000+. We rendered assistance though.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,120]

>They aren't extensively trained in relief efforts, they're trained to kill,
>to be an extension of US military power as well.

From CBS News:

"I'd much rather be doing this than fighting a war."
Helicopter pilot Lt. Cmdr. William Whitsitt in Indonesia

[Gawain 0]

Quote

>They aren't extensively trained in relief efforts, they're trained to kill,
>to be an extension of US military power as well.

From CBS News:

"I'd much rather be doing this than fighting a war."
Helicopter pilot Lt. Cmdr. William Whitsitt in Indonesia

That doesn't refute what I said though. I'd rather play a part in the relief role as well, however, I will be going to either Afghanistan or Iraq later this year to fulfill the role to which I have been trained.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!