skydyvr 0 #26 January 4, 2005 QuoteThat's funny, because I've been hearing that SH's Iraq was quite progressive in comparison to the popularly supported theocracy of Iran. Is that NPR's stance these days? Wherever you "heard" this, it's a disgusting paint job. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #27 January 4, 2005 Nope. Heard it in a discussion somewhere. Haven't researched it to confirm its legitamacy. That is why I said that it was something I heard. Does not change the fact that democracy does not guarantee justice.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #28 January 4, 2005 QuoteNonsense! Democracy means you can vote in a regime that cuts off hands for stealing, or has beheading as a form of punishment. If anything, our fighting in Iraq will turn the insurgents into folk heroes, of the sort who are elected easily to positions of power in a democracy. Who do you vote for if you're an Iraqi who has seen his family killed - a guy in a western suit or a guy who fought for the Iraqis against a violent occupying force? Despite your pessimism, it is a simple fact that democracy represents opportunity, opportunity the Iraqis haven't seen in their lifetimes. If they vote in head-loppers, fine, but at least least they had a chance to decide. I hope they make the right choice. QuoteMany Iraqis make the mistake of thinking of democracy as a christian government. Many americans make the mistake of thinking as democracy as a fair, humanitarian and just government. Neither is true. It is simply a form of government, and does not dictate either religion or fairness. It is how people use it that make it a christian (or a fair) government. Thanks for making my point -- the Iraqis may get a chance to decide how they "use it", as opposed to the "no choice" rule they've had for 30 years. QuoteWhat is your definition of "successfully established?" The new Iraqi government needs to be legitimately elected. Thereafter, terrorism needs to be brought under control. Sure, maybe it's a longshot, but it's where they stand today. Sink or swim, or muddle around forever. One of the three will happen. Quote. . . I have a feeling they won't care when elections are held, either. They won't, so they ultimately need to give up or be stamped out. Too bad our border control tactics sucked so bad in this war -- the insurgency wouldn't have been near as strong. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #29 January 4, 2005 >The new Iraqi government needs to be legitimately elected. >Thereafter, terrorism needs to be brought under control. You have created a circular argument, then. If democracy is established in Iraq, it will help put an end to the barbaric terrorists - and the way you'll tell that democracy has been established is that the terrorists have been brought under control. Sounds like you are trying to equate democracy with peace; they are not even remotely the same thing. >They won't, so they ultimately need to give up or be stamped out. How's that philosophy working in Israel? > Too bad our border control tactics sucked so bad in this war -- the >insurgency wouldn't have been near as strong. As most insurgents are Iraqis, I don't think it would have made much of a difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #30 January 4, 2005 QuoteThey won't, so they ultimately need to give up or be stamped out. How's that philosophy working in Israel? Stamping out the intifada hasn't really been tried in Israel, in my opinion. Instead the 'war' has been a limited engagement, with very limited goals. Instead of stamping out, it has been more like punishing, and then hoping the PA leadership will honestly seek peace.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #31 January 4, 2005 Quote>The new Iraqi government needs to be legitimately elected. >Thereafter, terrorism needs to be brought under control. You have created a circular argument, then. Well, I am always running in circles. I need to step off the merry-go-round and study now. QuoteAs most insurgents are Iraqis, I don't think it would have made much of a difference. I think a lot of support for the rebels is coming from the outside. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #32 January 4, 2005 Quote>They won't, so they ultimately need to give up or be stamped out. How's that philosophy working in Israel? it doesnt. the israeli democracy has nothing to do with the palestinian terrorists. they are not israeli citizens and do not vote in israel (not that we're safe from harm...). you should wonder how it will affect the upcoming palstinian elections, when at least 30% (hamas, jihad, etc) have decided not to take part. no matter who it is, the new palestinian elected leader has to put a stop to terror even by risking a palestinian civil war. Israel can't negotiate peacefully with one leader while others send suicide bombers. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
