Militants in Iraq believe democracy is "un-Islamic"??!!

[SpeedRacer 1]

This shows how f&*ked up some of these militants are. My Pakistani co-worker has told me that in fact democracy IS in keeping with Islam. One of the reasons that some Muslim Arabs are so pissed off with the Saudi ruling family is that it is a hereditary monarchy, which, I'm told, is NOT in keeping with the Koran.

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from AP:

BAGHDAD, Iraq Dec 31, 2004 — Three militant groups released a statement saying democracy is un-Islamic and warned Iraqis that if they vote in Jan. 30 elections they risk being attacked.

The warning Thursday by the radical Ansar al-Sunnah Army and two other groups came after insurgents in the volatile city of Mosul launched a coordinated assault on a U.S. military outpost. The United States said 25 insurgents were believed slain and one American soldier was killed in the battle.

In the statement, the insurgent groups said that democracy could lead to passing un-Islamic laws, such as permitting homosexual marriage, if the majority of people agreed to it, the statement said.

"Democracy is a Greek word meaning the rule of the people, which means that the people do what they see fit," said the statement. "This concept is considered apostasy and defies the belief in one God Muslims' doctrine."


Ansar al-Sunnah earlier posted a manifesto on its Web site saying democracy amounts to idolizing human beings. Thursday's joint statement also signed by the Islamic Army in Iraq and the Mujahedeen Army reiterated the threat that "anyone who accepts to take part in this dirty farce will not be safe."

Insurgents have intensified their strikes against the security forces of Iraq's U.S.-installed interim government as part of a continuing campaign to disrupt the elections for a constitutional assembly.

The statements by the Sunni Arab-dominated insurgent groups seemed aimed at countering Shiite leaders' claims that voting in the election is every Muslim's duty. Shiites, who make up 60 percent of the population, hope to use the vote to wrest power from minority Sunnis, who were favored under Saddam Hussein.

Iraqis will elect a national assembly that is to write a new constitution.

On Friday, Adel al-Lami, a senior member of the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq, denied a report by the Al-Jazeera satellite channel that all 700 workers for the electoral commission in Mosul resigned because they had been threatened.

"The report is not true," al-Lami told The Associated Press. "Only two people resigned and they are the head of the (electoral) office in Mosul and an accountant" he said, adding that they stepped down "for personal reasons" and not because of threats.

Iraq's third-largest city has become more worrisome in the weeks since a U.S.-led invasion routed insurgents from their base in the Sunni-dominated city of Fallujah in mid-November.

Across Iraq, dozens of insurgents, Iraqi civilians and security forces have been killed in attacks over the last 48 hours, and the guerrillas have shown new ingenuity to inflict large casualties.

Mohammed Salah, a Cairo, Egypt-based expert on Islamic militancy, suggested that insurgents may be experimenting with new tactics to test the Americans after the guerrillas lost their stronghold in Fallujah, west of Baghdad. Up to now, their chief weapons have been roadside bombs and suicide attacks.

"Since they are always pursued, they try to be creative," Salah said. "They have to be creative because they know repetitiveness is dangerous for them."

Speed Racer
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[Kennedy 0]

I'm waiting for someone to pop up and tell us that they don't hate liberty and democracy.

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[PhillyKev 0]

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I'm waiting for someone to pop up and tell us that they don't hate liberty and democracy.

Ok..they don't hate liberty and democracy.

They hate liberty and democracy being forced on them.

[bodypilot90 0]

and next you'll say they loved SH and all sons' dating style.

[PhillyKev 0]

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and next you'll say they loved SH and all sons' dating style.

Um, they probably did. We're talking about the insurgents here. You know, the ones that are fighting against us. The ones that were part of Hussein's ruling party.

Unless by "they" he was talking about all muslims, but that would be borderline racist (or religionist...whatever you want to call it) and I wouldn't expect that from Kennedy.

[TomAiello 26]

If you read the Koran, I believe you could reach the conclusion that democracy is contrary to Islam. You could also reach the conclusion that Islam requires democratic government, as well as dozens of other conflicting conclusions (the Koran kind of reminds me of the Bible, that way).

Islam was originally an empire, more than a religion, and it had a very strict government and administration that was pretty much despotic in nature. I'm sure that the Prophet (who, remember, was on top of this particular empire) would have been very opposed to democracy (which would have reduced his power by a fair bit). Remember, this is the guy who beheaded his political opponents.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mccurley 1]

Just goes to show that any special intrest group, from politcal party, to both pro and anti abortionists, to F****d up Religeous Zealot (read terrorist), and many others can take any doctrine and put a spin on it to suit thier own ends.

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[nathaniel 0]

An Islamic tradition is that Mohammed said that his followers will be divided into 72-odd sects, and only one of which follows the path into heaven.

Islam has greater divisions internally than it does with the rest of the world, or at least, has for the last several hundred years since the decline of the Ottomans.

nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[Skyrad 0]

Democracy is undemocratic!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[sundevil777 102]

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the insurgent groups said that democracy could lead to passing un-Islamic laws, such as permitting homosexual marriage

The insurgents should keep their views on same sex marriage to themselves, or they risk alienating many news sources.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Skyrad 0]

LMAO!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 3,131]

Nothing new there. Democracy is the government of the enemy (to them) so of course they're against it. We thought communism was against all christian principles in the 50's and 60's - heck, we added "one nation under god" to the pledge to distinguish ourselves from the godless communists.

Now, most people know that communism has nothing to do with religion; it is a system of government and not a religion. But since the rulers of the USSR were fairly atheistic, we associated the two. Now the insurgents in Iraq are associating democracy with the enemy.

[skydyvr 0]

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Now, most people know that communism has nothing to do with religion; it is a system of government and not a religion. But since the rulers of the USSR were fairly atheistic, we associated the two.

Fairly atheistic?

The USSR and other communist countries since Marx took aggressive stands against organized religions, attempting to replace them with faith in the government instead.

Communism has a lot to do with religion, in that part of the platform is to eradicate it. The associations which exist between communism and religion are not based on whether the rulers were athiests, but more that those rulers wished to gain the "benefits" of ruling people with no other gods before them.

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[sundevil777 102]

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Now, most people know that communism has nothing to do with religion; it is a system of government and not a religion. But since the rulers of the USSR were fairly atheistic, we associated the two.

Fairly atheistic?

The USSR and other communist countries since Marx took aggressive stands against organized religions, attempting to replace them with faith in the government instead.

Communism has a lot to do with religion, in that part of the platform is to eradicate it. The associations which exist between communism and religion are not based on whether the rulers were athiests, but more that those rulers wished to gain the "benefits" of ruling people with no other gods before them.

Quite right, it wasn't just a coincidence.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jcd11235 0]

Wasn't it Marx that said religion is the opiate of the masses?

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[skydyvr 0]

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Wasn't it Marx that said religion is the opiate of the masses?

Marx said a lot about religion, the essence of which is that religion is a man-made thing, the need of man to create a soul for himself in a souless world. Something like that.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,131]

>Communism has a lot to do with religion, in that part of the platform is to eradicate it.

Nope. You're making the same mistake that many people make, and associating the government of large countries with their religion. Communism is a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single party holds power, with the goal of making all citizens equally wealthy (or in the case of the USSR equally poor.) It says nothing about religion. You are associating communism with atheism because the USSR was a communist country who also happened to supress religion. But communism is no more related to atheism than democracy is related to christianity, or than monarchies are related to protestantism.

[sundevil777 102]

edit - to delete stupid stuff I wrote.

However, the suppression of religion under communism is not just a coincidence, it was seen by the founders of communism as necessary.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[PhillyKev 0]

Did you read his post? He actually stated exactly that. What he also rightfully pointed out is that erradication of religion had nothing to do with communism. They had to do with state control of its citizens. It's not a basic principle of communism. It just happened to be one of the principles of a communist nation.

[TomAiello 26]

Given that Marx said that the eradication of religion was necessary to create a utopian dictatorship of the proletariet, and that virtually _all_ governments attempting to implement communist systems have banned religion (or at least attempted to do so), I'd say that "part of the platform is to eradicate it" is a fairly reasonable conclusion.

Communism, in short, is associated with hostility toward religion.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[skydyvr 0]

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Communism is a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single party holds power, with the goal of making all citizens equally wealthy (or in the case of the USSR equally poor.) It says nothing about religion.

Communism viewed as a hypothetical economic system may have nothing to do with religion, but in practice, and in the Marxist way of implementing it, religion is a major theme.

. . =(_8^(1)

[tantalum 0]

Democracy is not the ONLY answer!

It might serve the US, Canada, the EU, and some parts of Asia. But saying that it is the "right-all" for everyone, is just like saying that Christianity is the only religion.

Or, much simpler (for those mentally-challenged), that English is the only language.

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Nothing new there. Democracy is the government of the enemy (to them) so of course they're against it. We thought communism was against all christian principles in the 50's and 60's - heck, we added "one nation under god" to the pledge to distinguish ourselves from the godless communists.

Now, most people know that communism has nothing to do with religion; it is a system of government and not a religion. But since the rulers of the USSR were fairly atheistic, we associated the two. Now the insurgents in Iraq are associating democracy with the enemy.

[skydyvr 0]

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Nothing new there. Democracy is the government of the enemy (to them) so of course they're against it.

I'll wager the insurgents and terrorists don't oppose democracy simply because it is associated with the west, but instead oppose it because it is a direct threat to their history of rule by cutting off heads, hands, feet, and tongues.

Democracy, if successfully established in Iraq, will put and end to (or at least a real damper upon) the barbarism. No wonder voter registrations are UP among the Iraqi citizenry.

I hope the elections succeed -- got to wonder how many Bush haters around here wish the same.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,131]

> but instead oppose it because it is a direct threat to their history of
> rule by cutting off heads, hands, feet, and tongues.

Nonsense! Democracy means you can vote in a regime that cuts off hands for stealing, or has beheading as a form of punishment. If anything, our fighting in Iraq will turn the insurgents into folk heroes, of the sort who are elected easily to positions of power in a democracy. Who do you vote for if you're an Iraqi who has seen his family killed - a guy in a western suit or a guy who fought for the Iraqis against a violent occupying force?

Many iraqis make the mistake of thinking of democracy as a christian government. Many americans make the mistake of thinking as democracy as a fair, humanitarian and just government. Neither is true. It is simply a form of government, and does not dictate either religion or fairness. It is how people use it that make it a christian (or a fair) government.

>Democracy, if successfully established in Iraq, will put and end to (or
> at least a real damper upon) the barbarism.

What is your definition of "successfully established?"

I remember when the right-wingers were saying that once Iraq became sovereign, the insurgents will have lost and the fighting will end. Turns out the insurgents didn't care that Iraq declared its sovereignty, and I have a feeling they won't care when elections are held, either.

[jcd11235 0]

That's funny, because I've been hearing that SH's Iraq was quite progressive in comparison to the popularly supported theocracy of Iran.

For the most part, only democrats (not to be confused with Democrats) believe democracy is the greatest form of government. Plato, for example, considered a monarchy (proper rule by one) to be the most just form (that is not to say plato advocated monarchies above all other forms), but inproper rule by one to be the worst, a modern dicttatorship. He called democracy improper rule by many, as opposed to a polity, which is what he called proper rule by many. The difference between the two is whether votes are cast with society (polity) or the individual (democracy) in mind.

Incidentally, democracy was only one step above a dictatorship.

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