Why the fuck can't we help our own?

[funks 1]

We cannot comprehend the death and destruction caused by the tsunami tragedy, the extent of it will be felt for many many years to come by many countries. Truly sad.

I am glad to see we are willing to help out in any way possible. We have the means to do so and should do so at any cost. Makes me proud to be an American.....

However, I have a big issue with the fact that our country seems to step up to the plate so quickly when others are in need. What about our own people that are suffering? What about the millions of homeless people? What about the god knows how many children that are living in poverty going hungry everyday? What about the people whoms lives were completely ruined by corrupt corporate america? The list can go on and on...

Yes, a very large percentage of the people who need help in our country do not deserve it (worthless welfare leeches, etc..). However, there is a certain percentage that do.

35 billion could do an awful lot for people in our country that need help.

Our country should not stop helping others in need, but we also shouldn't forget about our own

[rmsmith 1]

Our government provides a foundation for opportunity that doesn't exist in most places. You can't expect to get through life with a luddite outlook; don't have skills for today...then sign up for course work! Student loans, the schools, the jobs, the toys, etc., are all out there...just add effort. BTW, did you mean help, or carry for life?

[PhillyKev 0]

I think the difference is disaster vs. way of life. FEMA and other gov't resources do a great job of helping Americans in the aftermath of a disaster. You rarely hear anyone complain about that. The complaints about gov't help are usually directed at people who weren't happy and healthy before a disaster, but the poor wretches who live their entire lives on the street and hungry. For some reason people think they don't deserve help.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Our government provides a foundation for opportunity that doesn't exist in most places. You can't expect to get through life with a luddite outlook; don't have skills for today...then sign up for course work! Student loans, the schools, the jobs, the toys, etc., are all out there...just add effort. BTW, did you mean help, or carry for life?

A lot of these people are not true luddites. They thought they had long term jobs in industries that didn't require them to have tech or office skills - they thought they had jobs they would retire in. Then the jobs left this country and they are screwed because they are not marketable at all; they have no current skills that employers are looking for.

Do you know how things like ABLE or WIA work? Do you know how hard it is to get state funds for re education? I do. I work with those offices on a daily basis. If you have a dual income family and the main moneymaker lost his/her job, there is a good chance you will not qualify for assitance. Most of these people cannot afford to pay for it on their own either. They have used up all of their unemployment (thanks to Bush for not renewing the extensions) and are now spending their retirement money at the age of 45 or 50. I know families that pulled their kids out of college so they could use the college funds to keep the family alive and in a home. They will have to live off of that money over the year or more it takes to re-educate them and make them marketable. Even then the job they will get will be less than half of what they made before. They are in a poverty situation that has no solution.

Yes, there are people on the street that are down and out and don't need to be there. Some are there by choice or because they gave up on life. Some just got tired of trying to live a real life after losing a job and found there was almost no help for them.

However, do not lump those people in with those that try on a daily basis. There just isn't enough avenues of help for them.

Let me ask you this - what would you do with this client of mine. He is 57 years old, his wife is too sick to work and has medical bills. He paid for his two kids to go thru school and they are still in college. NO ONE will hire him. His unemployment will be gone in three weeks and he is going to take a nice tax hit when he opens up his retirement accounts early. His skill set is old, but it was vital in the job he once had. That job is now in Pakistan. He doesn't qualify for any federal help and companies won't hire him because he will retire in a few years. He was denied on his FAFSA for the Pell Grant and the amount of money he could get on a sub/unsub student loans would not be enough to get him into the community college, and he cannot afford to pay the rest.

This is just one story. There are over 207,000 unemployed people in Chicago alone. And that number only includes those that are getting the IDES checks - it no longer counts those that ran out of their six months of unemployment paychecks.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[peregrinerose 0]

I disagree with this. There is no rule book that says mom and dad have to pay for college. I busted my ass in undergrad working 60+ hours a week. I graduated debt free from a private college. Grad school gave me lots of debt, but it's easier to get loans as a grad student than undergrad.

There is a big difference between disaster and giving free handouts to a very large number of people that could contribute to their own care but chose not to. I work in health care, so see people on Medicaid/disability that clearly have the resources to help themselves but choose not to try. This is definitely not the case in every situation, but about 30% or so. That's a lot of money that could be better spent.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PhillyKev 0]

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I work in health care, so see people on Medicaid/disability that clearly have the resources to help themselves but choose not to try. This is definitely not the case in every situation, but about 30% or so. That's a lot of money that could be better spent.

Philosophical question for you. Let's say there were a way to make sure that only the 70% that really need and deserve help got it, and not the other 30%. But doing so would require a beauracracy that would end up costing more than it does in the current climate where undeserving people are helped.

What would you prefer? Helping people that don't deserve it in order to reduce the overall costs of managing the system that provides help. Or paying more to make sure that only people who deserve it get helped. In either case, those deserving help aren't getting any more help one way or the other.

[Ron 10]

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Philosophical question for you. Let's say there were a way to make sure that only the 70% that really need and deserve help got it, and not the other 30%. But doing so would require a beauracracy that would end up costing more than it does in the current climate where undeserving people are helped.

What would you prefer? Helping people that don't deserve it in order to reduce the overall costs of managing the system that provides help. Or paying more to make sure that only people who deserve it get helped. In either case, those deserving help aren't getting any more help one way or the other.
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You forget to add that a portion of that 30% would generate income and be taxed.

I'd rather help those that need it and if Ihave to pay more to prevent the lazy ones from getting a free ride.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[peregrinerose 0]

I disagree. Once that initial 30% are weeded out, only 70% would remain, costing less. Plus those that apply after that initial dead wood is eliminated would be cut from the start if truly not eligable, needing no extra burocrascy (however you spell it?) at all. Long term, money would be saved. Short term initial review may cost more, long term cheaper. Alternative is to implement the stricter requirements off the bat and let the others just stay grandfathered in. Eliminates extra help from the beginning.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PhillyKev 0]

How do you weed out the initial 30%? And after inial applications are processed, how do you determine if someone continues to be eligible, or do you sign them on for life? You want to grandfather in everyone and never review whether they should still be eligible?

And you didn't answer the question. Suppose that I'm right about it costing more. Do you, philosophically, support spending more to help only those deserving?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I disagree with this. There is no rule book that says mom and dad have to pay for college. I busted my ass in undergrad working 60+ hours a week. I graduated debt free from a private college. Grad school gave me lots of debt, but it's easier to get loans as a grad student than undergrad.

There is a big difference between disaster and giving free handouts to a very large number of people that could contribute to their own care but chose not to. I work in health care, so see people on Medicaid/disability that clearly have the resources to help themselves but choose not to try. This is definitely not the case in every situation, but about 30% or so. That's a lot of money that could be better spent.

I worked my way thru college and I am currently paying off the loans I had to take out. I come from a large family and there was no way for them to provide for my post-secondary education. However, the jobs I held did effect my grades. If I ever have kids, I plan to help them with their education as long as they meet certain guidlines. It won't be a free handout, they will have to produce. It also won't be any less of an education than what you or I had because they didn't have to pay the thousands of dollars for tuition. If they want additional spending money they will have to work for that and it won't be an excuse for bad grades. I have no problem that this client of mine wants to provide for his kids....but that is done and over with now. The kids may have to drop out of college to help pay the bills at home.

You said that about 30% have the ability/resources to help themself. That leaves a whopping 70% majority that do need the help. I would say when it comes to unemployement that about 85-90% of the people I see are trying as hard as possible to resolve the situation that was forced upon them. With the people that are not trying I tell them I will not help them out, that I am not here to do all the work for them, and in a few weeks they will be without a job, unemployement or any future. That tends to motivate them.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[turtlespeed 226]

ever heard of the squeaky wheel theory?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[peregrinerose 0]

If hypothetically you are right, then yes. I would rather see more people in the work force that have the ability to work than mooching off the rest of society. I have no sympathy for those who can work and choose not to.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PhillyKev 0]

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I have no sympathy for those who can work and choose not to.

Neither do I. But I try to be pragmatic. I'd rather not get my panties in a bunch over some leaches getting free hand outs, than pay more in taxes to build larger gov't beuracracies to insure that those who need help, get it.

I view helping those who need it as a necessity. I'd like to do so in the least expensive way possible, because I also have a degree of selfishness. If that means some freeloaders get over on the system, I can live with that. My priorities are...help people...do it cheaply.

[peregrinerose 0]

I agree with you sort of, in the short term. But those freeloaders have litters of children that learn to be freeloaders, who have more kids who learn to be freeloaders, and the cycle never ends. We don't need an entire culture of people who expects to live on hand-outs and that is what gets encouraged by continually giving away things that can be worked for.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[turtlespeed 226]

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I agree with you sort of, in the short term. But those freeloaders have litters of children that learn to be freeloaders, who have more kids who learn to be freeloaders, and the cycle never ends. We don't need an entire culture of people who expects to live on hand-outs and that is what gets encouraged by continually giving away things that can be worked for.

Sounds Viril.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Jimbo 0]

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The kids may have to drop out of college to help pay the bills at home.

Why would the kids have to drop out of college? Why could they not get loans, pay for college themselves, get a job, and kick some money back to dad? Why can't they go to school part time, get some a job, and kick some money back to dad?

Your statement strikes me as saying "If they can't be in the perfect place while they're in college (living on Dad's nickle and able to focus 100% on their studies and complete everything in four years) then they shouldn't be there." I think that's a load of crap as lots of people have managed to pay their own way through college while holding down at least one job and sometimes more.

Unrelated to the college issue, but why can't Dad get a job at McD's until something better comes along. Beats unemployment, right?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Why would the kids have to drop out of college? Why could they not get loans, pay for college themselves, get a job, and kick some money back to dad? Why can't they go to school part time, get some a job, and kick some money back to dad?

Because college isn't cheap. They are going to a private school and are taking out loans, but were denied for most of the federal loans. He may have been out of work for the last six months but the FAFSA goes off of last years 1040. In a year's time they will be able to go back to school when they hit 24 and can file on their own and get more funds...but how long do you think a retirement fund would last while paying medical bills, mortgage, and two college bills?

How much money do you think those kids can kick back to Dad? How quick can they get a job? If you have to think about this you don't know how bad the market is.

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Unrelated to the college issue, but why can't Dad get a job at McD's until something better comes along. Beats unemployment, right?

-
Jim

They don't hire people like him that are overqualified. They turn them down and hire high school kids. The kids will stick around longer.

I tried to get a job in retail/fast food while I was unemployed and they all turned me down.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[03CLS 0]

Nice title, funks have you done anything to help out our own? At least the percentage that you think deserve it.

If not then you really can't bitch! Beside some of the people that died or haven't been found are americans.

Sorry, this isn't 911 or the earthquake that killed 20 some thousand in Iran last year or even the quake that kill thousands in India 10 years ago. This is BIBLICAL and the numbers we all is said and done will be the biggest natural disaster in our modern times,.

Besides we can help our people in the new year

[JoeyRamone 0]

Man i am sick of people saying they can not find a dam job, their are tons of jobs in CHicago, they all are not the great ones but something is better then nothing. I do not feel sorry for people who are to lazy to go make pizzas or flip burgers, a job is a job.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Why the fuck can't we help our own?

we do. Americans donate millions to charities and organizations that help the causes you mention.

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What about our own people that are suffering? What about the millions of homeless people? What about the god knows how many children that are living in poverty going hungry everyday?

what about what about what about....bla bla bla. bitch whine moan.

quit yer yapping, get out your credit card & click on over to the website of the charitable organization of your choice and f&*king do something about it.

Speed Racer
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[rmsmith 1]

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Let me ask you this - what would you do with this client of mine. He is 57 years old, his wife is too sick to work and has medical bills. He paid for his two kids to go thru school and they are still in college. NO ONE will hire him. His unemployment will be gone in three weeks and he is going to take a nice tax hit when he opens up his retirement accounts early. His skill set is old, but it was vital in the job he once had. That job is now in Pakistan. He doesn't qualify for any federal help and companies won't hire him because he will retire in a few years. He was denied on his FAFSA for the Pell Grant and the amount of money he could get on a sub/unsub student loans would not be enough to get him into the community college, and he cannot afford to pay the rest.

I hear you loud and clear. I was pretty low when I hit thirty due to the job environment rapidly changing in the San Jose, CA area with the technology industries. Fortunately, I didn't have a family depending on me at the time. I did lose almost everything though, but I kept my credit intact. When I made the decision to return to school, I had to let go of the last of my toys...and the girl friend moved on too; it was a great life experience! In school, I really wanted to study computer science, but I knew deep down that I was too old, so I went with civil engineering. While the job is personally rewarding, it is a dead industry right now with stagnating wages. The problem is that most civil projects are government driven, and the legions of poor are exhausting the funds. It won't get any better soon with the babyboom crisis looming. On the positive side, I'm very good at what I do, and my current position will never be outsourced. Now I'm forty eight, and back on my feet, but it also meant relocating far away from where I wanted to live. While I could have bought a larger home, I bought one that I could afford even if I had to work at the local Walmart. It is also within walking distance of a hospital, shopping, and work...should things get really tight. I guess I was lucky being knocked down when I was thirty rather than sixty. In closing, I trust very little these days and plan accordingly.

[funks 1]

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Why the fuck can't we help our own?

we do. Americans donate millions to charities and organizations that help the causes you mention.

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What about our own people that are suffering? What about the millions of homeless people? What about the god knows how many children that are living in poverty going hungry everyday?

what about what about what about....bla bla bla. bitch whine moan.

quit yer yapping, get out your credit card & click on over to the website of the charitable organization of your choice and f&*king do something about it.

this is not about me taking out my credit card and donating x amount to some charity that will most likely only put a small percentage towards the cause

This is about the government being so willing to spend ridiculous amount of money (not just on the tsunami disaster) on helping other countries. We were so fucking concerned about putting food in the mouths of iraqi children and made it a priority to do so...

just as those children found themselves in an unfortunate circumstance, so do millions of children here in our own country.

and one other thing...do not tell me to quit my yapping.

[sfc 1]

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This is about the government being so willing to spend ridiculous amount of money (not just on the tsunami disaster) on helping other countries. We were so fucking concerned about putting food in the mouths of iraqi children and made it a priority to do so...

just as those children found themselves in an unfortunate circumstance, so do millions of children here in our own country.

and one other thing...do not tell me to quit my yapping.

Check out http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/, the government does feed hungry americans at home.

Given that we invaded Iraq and destroyed their civil infrastructure etc. I think we have a duty to help them recover, or maybe we should just build a big wall around the oil fields and let some dictator like Sadam rule them again.

I also hope that your views of helping the needy never become popular, to suggest letting children go hungry (and the resulting deaths this would cause) just because they are not americans is evil.

[funks 1]

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I also hope that your views of helping the needy never become popular, to suggest letting children go hungry (and the resulting deaths this would cause) just because they are not americans is evil.

Read my original post before making a comment like this please.

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[03CLS 0]

Why do you care where and how the US goverment spends our tax dollars when you didn't even vote....